What is the best way I can support my friend without becoming completely drained myself?

[flippinada]

Just that really.

We have been friends for many, many years. To cut a very long story short she's extremely depressed and anxious and has been for years. She suffers from severe insomnia and as a result of all this her health has been severely affected and her immune system is compromised so that she is frequently ill - she gets just about every bug going. Not surprisingly (considering) she is more or less constantly unhappy and stressed.

Just to explain a bit about where I'm coming from, I've had mental health issues as well (severe PND which I thankfully recovered from completely and anxiety - currently also under control). I'm mentioning that to show that I have been there so not coming from a pull yourself together perspective and understand how debilitating and distressing it can be. My life has it's own difficulties (single working parent with difficult ex but hey could be a lot worse) mostly I get by and am a pretty contented sort of person.

I try to be supportive and listen without being judgemental but increasingly it's harder and harder and I find myself thinking unkind thoughts. Today I listened to a litany of woe, misery and stress which left me feeling drained, pissed off and exhausted. Doesn't that sound awful? I'm not proud of it but that's the truth :(.

It's like this every day bow and I feel worn out (then I imagine how she feels..I know). So..what can I do to support her and not get 'dragged down' (horrible phrase but can't think of a better one right now)?

Just realised how long this is and that's the short version..any advice /suggestions gratefully received.

I think that if you write a letter or say something directly she'll cast you in the role of Horrible Unsupportive Friend and slag you off to everyone she knows. Which may not be the end of the world but I'm guessing you'd probably rather avoid it.

So probably better to set boundaries slowly and without fuss. E.g. say 'Oh yes, you told me about that last week, have you decided what to do about it yet?' or just be a bit bland, 'Sorry to hear that, what else did you do at the weekend?'

Remember, she's not your responsibility and you don't have to give her everything she wants.

I agree that everyday is too much. Cut it down to once or twice a week. It needn't be hard, just end each conversation with the day of the next "you take care, I'll talk to you on Saturday" type thing.

I also agree with the poster who suggested doing something different. It could be that you are both stuck in a rut: meet up, drink wine, talk about her problems. Changing this will not only get your relationship out of this rut, but may also be beneficial in getting your friend to try new things which will improve her mood.

Can you say to her that you will give her say 5 mins to complain and moan, then she has to stop and you will talk about other happier things? Then if she keeps going back to herself and negative things, then stop her and remind her her time is up?

Also agree that every day is too much!

You sound like a lovely caring friend, btw. X

I see from one of your posts that your friend has already lost friends who may have been in the same position as you, and you also say people are very careful around her so not to upset her. This is more acquaintance stuff that a friendship IMO and a veiled promise that if you upset her then there is no friendship.

Do you know any of these friends who she fell out with? I suppose not though, as you might have another idea of why they fell out. There is no harm in saying " I can't deal with your problems at the moment, I have many of my own, I don't have the emotional capacity" one of my friends did this recently to me (!) and I just thought how honest she was. She was going through a traumatic breakup and my dh was being an arse as usual.

If you have dc and one on the way - did I read that right? Then I think you have enough to deal with - presumably your dh/ dp likes attention as well?

You are right to deal with it now though, however difficult. Does she call these friends of hers everyday with her problems? I think you might find you are the one as designated listener. Are you a sahm? Because if you worked, you wouldn't have the time, and would have had to step back sooner.

Thank you CocktailQueen, although I feel like a bit of cowbag.

We haven't talked today and I just feel better.

All the suggestions about changing routine are brilliant and I would love to try them out if I lived closer....that's part of the issue too. She won't move away from where she is which is extremely expensive and (according to what she says) causes her a lot of stress and upset. She's single and no commitments and although you may be surprised to hear it a very high acheiver so could live anywhere she wanted really.

She also often seems to be 'battling' things. There's always a complaint on the go somewhere or someone not doing their job properly that's causing her stress.

She seems to be an inveterate moaner and a disaster area. If this was a marriage the advice would be LTB!
She's really using you in an extremely selfish way and making herself as undesirable a friend as one can be.
What are you getting out of this friendship exactly? Does she ever help you?

I've been writing to someone like this for several years. Nothing ever seems to go right with her. Never any light at the end of the tunnel. Never a trace of hope or optimism. She's always telling me something else, a new thing, is now wrong or how badly her life is 'fucked up right now...' And there's never a proper solution to anything, she's just lurching from one bad thing to another, like a rusty old car bashing randomly into boulders as it slowly slides down a long hill towards the cliff edge....
I feel like telling her I'm getting bored out of my mind listening to her and writing sympathetic words, or trying to think of a way to solve her endless problems.
I've got to the stage where I feel like saying: "Who cares? Don't you realise I'm fed up making sympathetic noises? Nothing will ever go right for you. You know that and so do I. It's a pity you were ever born because life has just been a prolonged misery for you. To be honest, I'm cheesed off and bored to death with all your endless problems. F**k off!"
I wouldn't say that to her, of course - not yet! - but I'm getting really fed up hearing about her miserable, unlucky life and just want rid of her now. My patience has worn so thin that it's threadbare now.

You'll have to tell her you're just too busy too listen too long as you've got lots and lots to do, and maybe be honest and tell her she's boring and depressing you with all her endless problems. Just tell her it's getting you down. The final solution is to tactfully get rid of her by giving her less and less of your time. Let her find somebody else to moan to. We need to struggle towards the light, and seek brightness and happiness while we're here. A friend like her is like a heavy stone tied to your ankles...

You paint a very vivid picture sunny - and you made me laugh! You encapsulate the frustrated feeling so well.

On a serious notm what keeps me going is that she's not always like this. It's not always relentless moaning. Our friendship has lasted a very long time and she's been there for me in the past and supported me when I've been down. She's very kind. There are good things. It's just that when she's down which is more often than not these days she's very very very very hard work.

Brief update - After reading back this thread and taking in people's advice/suggestions, I decided to withdraw from quite so much contact.

The result is - I'm feeling better generally, but something else I've noticed too....my friend hasn't once contacted me to ask how I am.

I should be pissed off and angry at being taken for granted (and part of me is)...but the overwhelming feeling is one of relief. Perhaps it's best for both of us to have a break.

She hasn't asked if you're all right, says it all really!

I was talking to someone I know yesterday. Lovely lady but a worrier by nature. She still manages to ask after me and my family so there isn't that endless moaning on a loop.

You are a friend and not a counsellor. Tell her she needs more support than you are able to give her as it's professional help she needs.

Don't feel guilty; there's only so much that you as a friend can do. She is in danger of damaging your friendship for ever by relying upon you so much and actually I think you must tell her that.

How about saying to your friend that you have noticed that you have yourself been getting in a negative frame of mind recently, and have decided to set yourself the challenge of finding a positive in every situation. No matter how bad things are, in every conversation between now and Christmas you will only talk about positive things, and will she join you in this? You might even instigate a 'moan box' where you have to put in a pound to give to charity every time you say something negative.

Keep it a bit of a joke, and make it something that you are doing, but make a big lighthearted fuss about her contributions to the 'moan box' every time she starts on a downer. As it is only until Christmas you are not saying to her that you are permanent taking away her source of someone to moan to, but it might just be enough to reset at the very least the way she talks to you, and might help with the way she thinks as well.

Thanks again for all the thoughtful advice, kind comments and suggestions. Having a busy day at work so can't comment in more detail but very much appreciated.

Thistledew that's a really good idea and I'll give it some thought.

Hi flip, I realise you've had some great advice and made some changes so maybe I'm a bit late to add my couple of thoughts. I'm in a situation where I've had a major accident following major illness, and about to have my 3rd surgery this year.
I've had a lot of problems, and I have some very wise friends, and I have a counsellor, and I talk about this stuff. Like whether I'm leaning too much, and I have discovered that when I'm at my most immobile, I can still listen. That's where counselling and some self awareness have got me - to share my heart with my counsellor and be a friend to my friends.

It's taken me years. I've had friends back off for their own sanity and tell me so. I've had some tough love, and I've lost friends by my own negative behaviour.
Those friends that backed off and told me why they were doing it? - they did me a lot of long term good. I really faced my behaviour and changed it. It has been really tough, I've been lonely, and desperate. But they helped bring about the right sort of change.

You might never see the good you do to your friend if you tell her that you are backing off to protect yourself because she may not be ready or willing to hear it - but you'll become well yourself, and give her the chance to see things as they are, and learn some mental wellness from you.
The friend that gave me the biggest tough love? - has had an awful time recently. She has other friends, but we see more of each other and contact each other more than ever. It's a healthy relationship.

Sorry if that's really unhelpful. I hope you work out a better balance, for yourself, and for her.

No, not too late at all weregoingtothezoo. As a matter of fact it was really good to get your perspective from the other side. And can I just say you sound lovely - I'm sorry to hear aboiut the problems you've had.

Funnily enough my friend did contact me today to ask how I was - she sounded a lot more upbeat and positive. I did say to her (paraphrasing) that I was happy for her but also that I'd been very worried and concerned. She said she was sorry but thank you for caring. haven't responded to that yet convo was by text as we were both at work), as I'm thinking...it's nice you feel better but what about me?

Might now be a good time to say (as I said she seems a little better) that actually I found it very stressful and upsetting and has she thought about how it feels to be on the receiving end of all that?

Have read this thread with interest Flip, as I am in a very similar position myself.

My longest friend (20 years +) is like this at the moment. She's always been what my Mum calls "high maintenance and dramatic" but has been a good friend in the past when I struggled for a year or so.

But for the last few years she's been relentless. She split up with her boyfriend of a couple of years, (very up and down relationship), a few months after they broke up she found out something quite shocking about his past. However, she has completely rewritten history and now says that this revelation was what broke up their otherwise perfect relationship. That's one story I listen to weekly.

She also has had some -non existent-- very low level health problems, which she uses as an excuse for every resolution you offer her. I say that she should go out for a walk/run/swim whatever as it would help her clear her head. She has an ever-changing excuse for why she can't. So instead just wallows. And whines at me. Whilst posting lots of "look at me and my wonderful life, I'm gorgeous and fabulous" type posts/photos on Facebook.

I started a new job this week. It was a very big deal for me (only my second job ever) and on Sunday night my phone was beeping constantly with good luck messages. Not one from her though It upset me so much more than I thought it would.

I have found myself ignoring her calls. Then feeling guilty. After a week or so she'll call/text on the pretext of asking how I am but then launches into her again.

It's exhausting. I'm exhausted.

You have my sympathy BakerStreet - it is knackering isn't it? If I find a solution I'll let you know. How selfish of your friend that she couldn't even be bothered to send you a good luck text.

I'm lucky in being close to my Mum and funnily enough she says the same sort of thing. My friend lurches from one crisis to another and to start with I felt sorry for her thinking she had the worst luck, bad things always seemed to be happening to her. Now it seems like a pattern...

Yes my poor Mum getting phone calls from me giving off about it all the time!

I do understand that when you're feeling depressed then sometimes the hardest thing to do is to take action, any action, be that go to a gym, go to counselling, make changes etc. But it's so hard to have to sit there trying to suggest things and constantly have them met with "I can't because".

She's also one of these people who can be quite inconsiderate of other people's situations, but woe betide anyone who makes (what she perceives as) any type of slight against her. So it's very difficult to say too much to her.

"Yes my poor Mum getting phone calls from me giving off about it all the time! "

God, yes! My Mum gets it too. I limit the time I talk about it because I'm aware it must be frustrating to listen to.

And yy to the "I can't because"...aaargh!

I've given up making suggestions because I get the same response. My stock reply now is 'oh dear what a shame' - which sounds patronising and dismissive but I've heard the same thing so many times now.

Does your friend have a difficult/off relationship with her family? Mine does...I've had family issues myself but the whole family unit is wildly dysfunctional. Won't go into it here as it's not my place but that has a lot to do with it I think.

Whoops - off should be odd.

I agree that 'detaching' a bit is the only way to go. Practise some conversation stoppers to use, as has already been suggested. Don't take on responsibility for 'fixing' her. She's an adult and is responsible for her own life. Sure, you can support her, but she has to make her own decisions.

I've been where you are. I realised that my instinctive reaction used to be to offer solutions, which - of course - were always thrown back at me with a 'that won't work / I can't do that' etc. Which then made me feel like I wasn't helping, because I hadn't 'fixed' the problem. Now I ask instead 'so what are you going to do about it?' They may not actually have an answer, but it gets them thinking, and stops me feeling like it was my problem. (Hope that makes sense.)

I know what you mean about exhausting though.

Flip Yes to constantly having family problems to. Her mum is siding with her siblings over everything, then falling out with her dad, then her siblings, then her SIL. It's just drama all the time. But over things that happen in most families but wouldn't be a big deal.

Yule I might start deploying the "so what are you going to do about it?" tactic more. Although, she was recently complaining about how difficult her job was, and how she wished it was more 9-5 (it is on paper). I said that nobody these days seems to have a 9-5 job, mine is the same, as are all my friends. But of course, hers is worse than everyone else's. I then suggested she look for another job as there would be so many around in her field. She responded that her same job at any other company would come with 3 times the caseload So she can't have it that hard then!

too*

Yule that "what are you going to do about it"? line - it makes perfect sense. And my instinctive response to is to try and fix things, but that's not what the conversation is about, is it?

BakerStreet - that sounds very familiar. I wonder if this is a case of the family dynamic carrying on into adult relationships, having a "learnt" a particular way of relating to people and not being able or willing to change that?

That's not meant in a snotty way - we are all shaped by our upbringing and your parents are the first people you learn from.

Oh yes yes! I have a very old friend like your Flip - been like this for years and it does my head in. Sometimes I get soft in the head though and set myself up. I very nearly committed myself to having her over Xmas itself but managed to firmly move the visit - I just cannot take that on Xmas day

I have another newer friend just like JohnSnowsTie's. Absolutely will not take any criticism in a situation which is getting weirder and weirder. Never, ever any enquiries about my life at all and enless monologue about The Situation. All we can do is withdraw as gracefully as possible.

Some of us seem to be prone to this kind of relationship. It's going to be part of my NY resolutions to stop getting sucked in.