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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Any opinions appreciated....am I thinking rationally?

57 replies

quirrelquarrel · 12/11/2013 11:52

i'm feeling mixed up. this is possibly the longest thread ever to grace poor mumsnet. the first para is one question and the rest is mostly details and then another Q so the first bit will hopefully make sense on its own! i'm just posting to vent mostly....otherwise i would cut it down....I should namechange because I sound so horribly critical and angry, I should be ashamed, but I'm not known on MN so....and I'm not sober so I might be writing total non-issue rubbish down, sorry.

Yesterday talking to my housemates we got onto the topic of my boyfriend (been together six months) not doing much around the house (something that personally I don't get riled up about) and suddenly all the things I'd been resenting him for but blaming myself for inventing about him were one by one ticked off by them. They see it too, they see everything and I'm not overreacting they said. They said they didn't know why we were together. I also found out about a big lie that was recent (Sunday) and it kind of poured gas on the whole thing. I wasn't calm and ran off a long email to my mum hoping to be told that I was being too difficult, sensitive. She sent me back one unusually quickly saying that she was angry on my behalf and she sent me another one this morning, a really thoughtful and long email completely on my side. I had started to feel guilty about being so angry with him the night before especially since he put a piece of paper under my door saying have a lovely day, feel better soon. But my mum's email has made me angry again. I had said that I wasn't saying it was EA, I was just saying that I was realising how unhealthy his attitude towards me and other people is, but she said that she was recognising all the signs. If it is EA....I respect women so much, I thought I had got so much out of feminist ideas, I really thought they protected me because I'd absorbed them and they were just built into how I saw the world. Obviously not.

I broke up with him this morning after writing what I was thinking down and I feel so shaky because I'm afraid of the fallout from this. I feel like I've been kidding myself that I'm assertive, alert, that I value myself- I feel like someone's just made me see everything clearly. I've been reading threads on mumsnet and thinking that oh at least he's not this, that, whatever but it's all starting to sound familiar now. How do you cope with this? I feel like an empty flat person who's been tricked or something.

So as not to drip feed- we both take ADs which help to some extent. The behaviours that feel like warning signs to me must be aggravated by his depression. These are: lying but expecting the strictest trust between me and him (i.e. bank cards, facebook passwords from the word go, concrete things which matter), making grand gestures but not really showing that he cares, histrionics at every setback, saying anything for attention, like offending people just for the hell of it, alcoholism (passing out/peeing in bed/his room smells like hell), sulking whenever things don't go his way or I say I want time alone, thinking that any effort is as good as the right effort (i.e. he washed my sheets as per a previous agreement but left them damp and smelly and thought that since he'd put in the effort I couldn't complain. i say, get off your arse and learn how to use a washing machine), constantly putting me down in jokes (I can't help laughing because he can be so funny, but later you don't remember the humour, you remember the sting- and always, constantly letting me know that everyone knows that he's the more attractive partner), making me feel guilty all the time for acting the martyr, I buy 90% of our food but he would never thank me for it. He's always complaining that I don't cook enough for him, I should because he likes my cooking and can't cook himself. Oh god, there's so much. He stands other people up and thinks it's funny. He's constantly trying to make me jealous because he thinks that I'm not lovey dovey enough with him, but then the tighter he holds on, the more I want to be free, it's the same old pattern.

I would always link him to good threads on mumsnet and ask him specifically each time not to try and find me on there because I like having my own space here, and he promised me each time that he wouldn't. I found out accidently the day I got back from the summer that he'd been hacked into my account for months and been reading all my private messages and posts all the time all the while he was telling me he understood that it's something private for me. He plays stupid pranks on our housemates and won't take them seriously afterwards they're unhappy and just tries to make them feel guilty and humourless.

He is a mixture of very confident and very underconfident. He gets his confidence from feedback about his academic performance (was hothoused by his mother and got into an Ivy League uni at 15) and his looks (he is very good looking). I know he is underconfident because he will bring those two things up all the time- often in a jokey way but he does it so much that you can guess he needs people to know this stuff to feel at ease around them. I was going to ask a friend over a while ago and he stopped me saying that she wasn't "like us". I thought he must be joking but he was serious so I didn't ask her round so he wouldn't be upset. And he is underconfident because he feels rejected by his parents, he feels inferior to many people, because he needs crutches such as alcohol to appear charming, cheerful and outgoing and he would prefer to be in control, unusually so. His parents are very rich and he went to boarding school for most of his life, suffered a breakdown circa 17 and had to leave his first uni because he was struggling.

He loves attention and can deal with it when it's him that calls it. For example he will be brilliant around loads of people, funny and flippant and cool, but when someone else has a idea for him he finds it hard to follow through. So for e.g. he will go to great lengths to prove he loves me but if I suggest something that I would appreciate more (i.e. doing his own laundry- I act like his mum I really do) it's not shiny enough for him, he doesn't get the amount of credit he craves because someone else thought of it, so it's not attractive enough for him and he won't do it. It's not a selfless love, and anyway it's not love. He wants me to owe him, really, I think. He bends over backwards to show that he's thinking about me all the time for but it's always the same gestures and I feel like there's no support from him for the important things- he would never try and think of advice for me if I (ever on one of the few rare occasions) try and lean on him emotionally, it's too much effort for him.
I feel like he says everything and anything to create a persona and I feel like he is constantly performing. He does it so well but I know his patterns of behaviour so well as well (ooh it's gone funny now). When I met him and we talked on facebook he sounded so pompous and styled, different to IRL, and seemed to concerned with protecting a precise image of himself, dressing flamboyantly but then moved onto saying really hurtful cutting things about me: how no one liked me except him because I was too strange, too ugly, fat (I'm not fat at all but obviously if I were looking at this through the 'he's a mysognist' lens I would see that he's using fat as an umbrella term for 'all that is bad' and making me feel bad generally- no offence to anyone here, it is not what I think). We had a LOT of arguments about this and he finally made an effort to stop and I noticed a difference. I have been very assertive with him and we've had so many arguments so it's not like I'm a total doormat.

He can be so much fun and when I mention my obscure favourite writer he's heard of her and I can't get embarrassed in front of him....I think he is less judgemental than a lot of other people.

But I'm just going from angry to guilty to confused because I don't know if he does all these things unintentionally and he just needs to grow up a bit, or if he does some things intentionally because he feels like he's under a lot of pressure and must have an outlet, or if some of the things he does really are EA. I really would be grateful for any insight or comments or thoughts....I am young yes. Please tell me if there's something off kilter about what I'm saying- my head is spinning and I'm doubting everything I'm thinking at the moment, and I want to know if if what I'm feeling is an instinct or something irrational. Also, I'm not really sure I know how to be angry in a very healthy way, I see it as something I should avoid. Should I be angry? I feel like an inch tall. am i overreacting?

OP posts:
quirrelquarrel · 12/11/2013 11:53

OMG! so long. so sorry. whoops. MN is not my diary, I must remember.

OP posts:
deXavia · 12/11/2013 12:00

Seriously... he pees the bed, he belittles you, he annoys your friends, expects you to be his mother .... and those are just the highlights
Maybe there are issues, maybe he needs to grow up, change AD's whatever but honest its not your problem. If its like this after 6 months, imagine 6 years or 60?

Run for the hills - and never look back

Anniegetyourgun · 12/11/2013 12:04

OK, so he's pretty and shiny. Is there any other reason in the world in space that you might believe you've done the wrong thing in ditching him?

quirrelquarrel · 12/11/2013 12:07

Because on the surface he seems so kind. That's the thing. He seems to sacrifice so much and do it out of care. I don't really trust myself to see what his motives are? so a lot of me is saying that I am being so critical and people aren't perfect./

Thanks for the replies by the way- when I saw the tiny scroll bar after I post I thought of course I wouldn't get any!

OP posts:
deXavia · 12/11/2013 12:13

But you say he will go to great lengths to prove he loves me but if I suggest something that I would appreciate more (i.e. doing his own laundry- I act like his mum I really do) it's not shiny enough for him, he doesn't get the amount of credit he craves because someone else thought of it, so it's not attractive enough for him and he won't do it. It's not a selfless love, and anyway it's not love

Read that back and then tell me how you can think he is kind and cares?

I'm being flippant and harsh - sorry. But from your Op it sounds all like a grand gesture, a performance or a show then he stops and waits for the applause. But no chance for applause, no performance.

Mumbrage · 12/11/2013 12:15

I didn't read quite to the end but please take real comfort from the fact that your mum values you and loves you and wants somebody else to love and value you too.

If she's angry on your behalf, be grateful you have a mum that has your back. Not a mum that is so conditioned by society to believe that every woman has to have a mum not matter how miserable he makes her.....

Don't get all caught up in the precise labelling of his behaviour , it's not necessary. You know it's not respectful to you, and you know he doesn't behave decently. You know he's not making you happy. That's more than enough. You don't need to provide a good 'case' for ending it. You don't need evidence (or labelling) to back up your decision to end a relationship.

You've only been with him six months and if he's this entitled and selfish and disrespectful and manipulative now he certainly won't get better. He'll get worse.

End it for the very simple reason that you're entitled to end it if you're not happy with him.

I like the sound of your Mum. She thinks her daughter deserves a man who will treat her well and make her happy. So don't get cross with your mum over a slight difference of labelling. That's not the point. I read somewhere once that it's very difficult to get angry with the right person about the right behaviour in the appropriate degree of anger and to be angry for the right duration of time. SOmething like that. But basically, your mum has your back.

Mumbrage · 12/11/2013 12:16

have a man not have a mum !

mamakoukla · 12/11/2013 12:16

QQuirrel, it doesn't sound healthy to me, but that is my opinion. Don't necessarily look for motives or justifications. Don't overlook the things you don't like (and from what I read there are a number and they're concerning) because there are some things you do like. They are all part of the same package. It is a tough decision but in your place, I would like to imagine I would have the strength to do what is best for me and my future. Look after yourself and be gentle to yourself as well.

quirrelquarrel · 12/11/2013 12:17

I know, that was a pretty nasty thing for me to write and I should have toned it down but OTOH i just think it's true. But to everyone else he looks like a lovely partner. I suppose it's more that I often need someone to tell me that I'm right to think what I'm thinking. Not to sound all pitiful or get sympathy. Starting this thread come to think of it was probably not the healthiest thing for me to do because partly I'm looking for permission to take myself seriously or something?
i think I'm just a bit anxious this morning so I'm not thinking straight.

OP posts:
Mumbrage · 12/11/2013 12:20

You say you don't trust your through processes. Well, I think you should trust your gut

Sounds like your gut is telling you that it's not right. YOur sub conscious is trying to send the message to your conscious brain that it's not right! and your conscious brain is trying to collate data and construct pros and cons and arguments for and against and getting all caught up in analysis.

Just trust your gut. It's not right.

Strawberrykisses · 12/11/2013 12:21

He's not nice. He's awful. Really, truly awful. Don't let him back into your life, and get him out of your head. Don't wonder about why he did this or that. There will be no reason you can understand because a reasonable person wouldn't behave like that.

quirrelquarrel · 12/11/2013 12:22

thanks mamakoukla and mumbrage :)

I sound so hung up on the EA thing- I would never be cross with my mum about that- I think I'm focusing on anything really, like I said not thinking straight. Maybe I think that if it's not extreme stuff then I should put up with it but you're right, I have other choices.
My mum (and dad) are fantastic. They're insightful and always there and they just understand me so well. I tell them nearly everything because only good comes out of it when they know more about what's going on with me.

OP posts:
quirrelquarrel · 12/11/2013 12:23

expost Strawberry yeah, I guess I need to take a step back and just be calm! stop thinking start living Wink

OP posts:
deXavia · 12/11/2013 12:24

I do think you need to be kinder to yourself, you don't need MN's permission to dump this guy. You shouldn't really need anyone's and I would just say neither your Mum nor your friends think he looks like a lovely partner - so who is "everyone"?

I think the bigger issuer here is for you to be more comfortable taking responsibility for your own decisions. I know you said you're on AD's but are you getting counseling? Would that help?

Mumbrage · 12/11/2013 12:25

I think starting this thread was definitely a healthy thing for you to do!!!

You reveal quickly (in a few posts) that you don't trust your own thought processes and that you require permission to take yourself seriously!
Well, you don't need our permission to form an impression!! Your gut if you won't trust your own thought processes is telling you it's not right. You don't need anybody's permission to end a relationship that makes you feel unsettled or discombobulated. Honestly.

Please read Anne Dickson's "a woman in your own right". Not sure of the exact title, but I found it a good read. It reminded me of a few 'rights' that we as women can let go of. I was long term single in my 20s and eventually, pressure to be conventional made me accept a rubbish relationship. That damaged my self-esteem. By the time I was out of that relationship I needed to be reminded of some of the things in this book. For example, "I have the right to make a mistake". YOu made a mistake with this guy. You thought he was a decent guy and you thought you'd like to go out with him for a while. You got to know him better and you realise you were wrong, he's not for you.. This is your absolute right.

WideScreenViper · 12/11/2013 12:26

You are allowed to take who you choose to have close relationships with as seriously as you want.

This guy makes you feel an inch high after only 6 months. That would make me angry if I was your mum! You can't trust him. He's a bag of emotional problems. His good traits are on the surface only.

Being deeply attracted to someone is somehow designed to make you overlook their flaws, so count yourself lucky you got such an early wake up call and no kids.

Concentrate on getting happy with yourself and feeling ten feet tall!

MorrisZapp · 12/11/2013 12:28

It doesn't matter how he appears to others. It's only how he treats you and how he makes you feel that matters.

You don't need reasons to end relationships. You can just end them because you want to. Especially after a mere six months.

Mumbrage · 12/11/2013 12:30

Glad you have a good mum and dad.

You don't need to be with anybody!

I had psychotherapy, counselling (just venting really), I've been on anti-Ds twice, I was in an abusive relationship (out of it years now though). So, I'm not just sitting here blithely typing 'have psychotherapy'. Because i know if somebody had said that to me when I first starting going out with my horrible x, I would have thought they were being dramatic! but no, the number one thing you can do to make sure you are treated well is to believe you are worth being treated well. Psychotherapy helped me understand my need for approval, the desire to fit in, how to handle criticism, how to react to things in a way that was less destructive etc... I only had 8 sessions and it was so valuable to me. I wish I'd had it a decade sooner.

Anniegetyourgun · 12/11/2013 12:31

On the surface he seems so kind, you say. But under the surface he actually isn't, is he?

After you required him to wash the sheets he made dirty, he kind of did it but not very well. Would he have done it at all, let alone well, if you had not insisted?

constantly putting me down in jokes (I can't help laughing because he can be so funny, but later you don't remember the humour, you remember the sting- and always, constantly letting me know that everyone knows that he's the more attractive partner) That is very unkind behaviour.

saying really hurtful cutting things about me: how no one liked me except him because I was too strange, too ugly, fat Well he stopped doing that one because you made it clear you wouldn't stand for it - so now he's more subtle. But he hasn't stopped doing it altogether so I rather suspect he hasn't stopped thinking it. It's actually the worst chat-up line in history so it's not clear why you agreed to go out with him after he used it on you. "You're really rubbish and nobody except me is stupid enough to date you." "Ooh, my dream man!"

He makes you buy most of the food and do all of the cooking.

Sulking, lying, reading your private messages - massive lack of respect.

Personally I couldn't get past the weeing in the bed...

Yes, this man does have issues. But you are supposed to be his girlfriend, not his personal therapist. The ADs are a red herring as you are on them as well and you do not treat people like this. (Also it's a really bad idea to drink heavily on ADs.)

Actually just read deXavia's first post, and do what she says in the last paragraph.

Mumbrage · 12/11/2013 12:40

Just read deXavia's post which does sum up the situation brilliantly!

You can't fix anybody, and you shouldn't want to take on that challenge. It will only damage you more. Fix yourself, as in, raise your self-esteem, and then you won't want to fix some loser.

anniegetyourgun yes that's the script with so many of these guys, 'you're lucky i'm overlooking x,y or z, nobody else would so you're lucky to have me and don't forget it'. Pah!

Anti-depressants just gave me clarity. I could see things more clearly than before and so ............. I finally bailed.

quirrelquarrel · 12/11/2013 12:53

Mumbrage
I've been on ADs for two and a half years since I was 17 and max dose since I'm not sure, over half a year. I've noticed that I can now go from a bad mood to a better one or vice versa which I just didn't feel before because I was very numb. I still can't pin my feelings down and I don't have memories of moods I had yesterday or this summer etc, it's a bit of a blank, but I'm def better on ADs than off. The two times I've not taken them for more than two days in the last year have been awful, loads of weeping when I don't cry often at all. At least I can get on with things at the moment, go to lectures and stuff.
For various reasons (inc. that I've used up my quota apparently) the only counselling I can get is CBT. GP said she'd fix that up about a month ago and I haven't heard from her since which is typical for my uni health centre. But it's okay, I know that budget cutbacks are affecting everyone and they're busy and everything. I see therapy as more of a luxury really. A lot of people in my family are chronic brooders like me and they get on with it. But thanks and also for the book rec, I'll check it out.

god, how I can I write so much about myself? i'm self obsessed! haha

OP posts:
quirrelquarrel · 12/11/2013 13:01

I do appreciate your posts annie and deXavia, thank you. I need to be shaken up a bit. You weren't harsh.
The bedwetting is just when he's had loads to drink. I think it's common with alcoholics- just one of the practical side effects.

widescreen i think the first thing you said has made me sit up a bit. I guess it all comes back to respecting yourself, acknowledging that choice is just a right.

OP posts:
Mumbrage · 12/11/2013 13:07

yes, choice is a right! while you're open to this way of thinking, order yourself that anne dickson book. NO bad ever comes from reading a book about self-esteem. I think I was already in that way of thinking when I ordered the book but it just helped me underline a few points that I knew in theory but hadn't had enough practice executing. You can read it, but then, you need to live through real life situations and be tested before you know you have changed!

It's not self-absorbed to come here and run a few things past us! sure the whole board would have to shut down if nobody ever did just that.

You're very young, and I know that always sounds so patronising when older people say it, like, what does how you feel now matter when you've got so much time ahead! but I remember that you feel things so intensely that being young and having time on your side is no consolation! but, at the risk of sounding too LA :-p take time out to bolster up your relationship with yourself.

EllieQ · 12/11/2013 13:29

There are so many things wrong with your relationship that I have no idea where to start. He told you that you were unattractive and no-one else would want you, and you decided to have a relationship with him? He demanded access to your Facebook password and bank cards right at the start of the relationship, stalked you here on MN, belittles you and tells you it's only a joke, sulks and strops if you don't do what he wants, expects you to mother him, stops you seeing your friends, is an alcoholic...

All of those things are red flags, to use the MN phrase, and you did the right thing in breaking up with him. You say everyone thinks he's a great guy - well I bet your housemates don't, given the discussion you had!

Maybe you need to stop over-analysing what the problems were (EA or not, absorbing feminist ideals but not applying them to yourself, looking at his actions thr

EllieQ · 12/11/2013 13:33

Stupid phone!

... through a lens of misogyny), and just acknowledge that he treated you very badly, made you unhappy, is not a nice person (despite his 'shiny' public persona), and you did the right thing in identifying these issues and breaking up with him.

Are you a student? Would you be able to access counselling through the university - I know my university offered counselling services separately to anything offered by the local GPs.