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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Any opinions appreciated....am I thinking rationally?

57 replies

quirrelquarrel · 12/11/2013 11:52

i'm feeling mixed up. this is possibly the longest thread ever to grace poor mumsnet. the first para is one question and the rest is mostly details and then another Q so the first bit will hopefully make sense on its own! i'm just posting to vent mostly....otherwise i would cut it down....I should namechange because I sound so horribly critical and angry, I should be ashamed, but I'm not known on MN so....and I'm not sober so I might be writing total non-issue rubbish down, sorry.

Yesterday talking to my housemates we got onto the topic of my boyfriend (been together six months) not doing much around the house (something that personally I don't get riled up about) and suddenly all the things I'd been resenting him for but blaming myself for inventing about him were one by one ticked off by them. They see it too, they see everything and I'm not overreacting they said. They said they didn't know why we were together. I also found out about a big lie that was recent (Sunday) and it kind of poured gas on the whole thing. I wasn't calm and ran off a long email to my mum hoping to be told that I was being too difficult, sensitive. She sent me back one unusually quickly saying that she was angry on my behalf and she sent me another one this morning, a really thoughtful and long email completely on my side. I had started to feel guilty about being so angry with him the night before especially since he put a piece of paper under my door saying have a lovely day, feel better soon. But my mum's email has made me angry again. I had said that I wasn't saying it was EA, I was just saying that I was realising how unhealthy his attitude towards me and other people is, but she said that she was recognising all the signs. If it is EA....I respect women so much, I thought I had got so much out of feminist ideas, I really thought they protected me because I'd absorbed them and they were just built into how I saw the world. Obviously not.

I broke up with him this morning after writing what I was thinking down and I feel so shaky because I'm afraid of the fallout from this. I feel like I've been kidding myself that I'm assertive, alert, that I value myself- I feel like someone's just made me see everything clearly. I've been reading threads on mumsnet and thinking that oh at least he's not this, that, whatever but it's all starting to sound familiar now. How do you cope with this? I feel like an empty flat person who's been tricked or something.

So as not to drip feed- we both take ADs which help to some extent. The behaviours that feel like warning signs to me must be aggravated by his depression. These are: lying but expecting the strictest trust between me and him (i.e. bank cards, facebook passwords from the word go, concrete things which matter), making grand gestures but not really showing that he cares, histrionics at every setback, saying anything for attention, like offending people just for the hell of it, alcoholism (passing out/peeing in bed/his room smells like hell), sulking whenever things don't go his way or I say I want time alone, thinking that any effort is as good as the right effort (i.e. he washed my sheets as per a previous agreement but left them damp and smelly and thought that since he'd put in the effort I couldn't complain. i say, get off your arse and learn how to use a washing machine), constantly putting me down in jokes (I can't help laughing because he can be so funny, but later you don't remember the humour, you remember the sting- and always, constantly letting me know that everyone knows that he's the more attractive partner), making me feel guilty all the time for acting the martyr, I buy 90% of our food but he would never thank me for it. He's always complaining that I don't cook enough for him, I should because he likes my cooking and can't cook himself. Oh god, there's so much. He stands other people up and thinks it's funny. He's constantly trying to make me jealous because he thinks that I'm not lovey dovey enough with him, but then the tighter he holds on, the more I want to be free, it's the same old pattern.

I would always link him to good threads on mumsnet and ask him specifically each time not to try and find me on there because I like having my own space here, and he promised me each time that he wouldn't. I found out accidently the day I got back from the summer that he'd been hacked into my account for months and been reading all my private messages and posts all the time all the while he was telling me he understood that it's something private for me. He plays stupid pranks on our housemates and won't take them seriously afterwards they're unhappy and just tries to make them feel guilty and humourless.

He is a mixture of very confident and very underconfident. He gets his confidence from feedback about his academic performance (was hothoused by his mother and got into an Ivy League uni at 15) and his looks (he is very good looking). I know he is underconfident because he will bring those two things up all the time- often in a jokey way but he does it so much that you can guess he needs people to know this stuff to feel at ease around them. I was going to ask a friend over a while ago and he stopped me saying that she wasn't "like us". I thought he must be joking but he was serious so I didn't ask her round so he wouldn't be upset. And he is underconfident because he feels rejected by his parents, he feels inferior to many people, because he needs crutches such as alcohol to appear charming, cheerful and outgoing and he would prefer to be in control, unusually so. His parents are very rich and he went to boarding school for most of his life, suffered a breakdown circa 17 and had to leave his first uni because he was struggling.

He loves attention and can deal with it when it's him that calls it. For example he will be brilliant around loads of people, funny and flippant and cool, but when someone else has a idea for him he finds it hard to follow through. So for e.g. he will go to great lengths to prove he loves me but if I suggest something that I would appreciate more (i.e. doing his own laundry- I act like his mum I really do) it's not shiny enough for him, he doesn't get the amount of credit he craves because someone else thought of it, so it's not attractive enough for him and he won't do it. It's not a selfless love, and anyway it's not love. He wants me to owe him, really, I think. He bends over backwards to show that he's thinking about me all the time for but it's always the same gestures and I feel like there's no support from him for the important things- he would never try and think of advice for me if I (ever on one of the few rare occasions) try and lean on him emotionally, it's too much effort for him.
I feel like he says everything and anything to create a persona and I feel like he is constantly performing. He does it so well but I know his patterns of behaviour so well as well (ooh it's gone funny now). When I met him and we talked on facebook he sounded so pompous and styled, different to IRL, and seemed to concerned with protecting a precise image of himself, dressing flamboyantly but then moved onto saying really hurtful cutting things about me: how no one liked me except him because I was too strange, too ugly, fat (I'm not fat at all but obviously if I were looking at this through the 'he's a mysognist' lens I would see that he's using fat as an umbrella term for 'all that is bad' and making me feel bad generally- no offence to anyone here, it is not what I think). We had a LOT of arguments about this and he finally made an effort to stop and I noticed a difference. I have been very assertive with him and we've had so many arguments so it's not like I'm a total doormat.

He can be so much fun and when I mention my obscure favourite writer he's heard of her and I can't get embarrassed in front of him....I think he is less judgemental than a lot of other people.

But I'm just going from angry to guilty to confused because I don't know if he does all these things unintentionally and he just needs to grow up a bit, or if he does some things intentionally because he feels like he's under a lot of pressure and must have an outlet, or if some of the things he does really are EA. I really would be grateful for any insight or comments or thoughts....I am young yes. Please tell me if there's something off kilter about what I'm saying- my head is spinning and I'm doubting everything I'm thinking at the moment, and I want to know if if what I'm feeling is an instinct or something irrational. Also, I'm not really sure I know how to be angry in a very healthy way, I see it as something I should avoid. Should I be angry? I feel like an inch tall. am i overreacting?

OP posts:
ALittleStranger · 12/11/2013 13:37

I have nothing constructive to say, but I will admit I couldn't even be bothered to read the long list of pros and cons about him, so I don't know how on earth you have the attention span for a relationship with this fuck-up. Life is too short, move on.

mistlethrush · 12/11/2013 13:42

Can I also remind you to change all your passwords that he might know too please?

Its not just your mum thinking that he's not right for you - your other housemates are also thinking that too. Don't doubt your decision.

Clobbered · 12/11/2013 13:45

This guy is a mess and he is doing you no good whatsoever. This relationship is damaging your self esteem. Get rid of him. It's a no-brainer.

Ilovexmastime · 12/11/2013 13:58

Run! Run as fast you can! Joking aside, he sounds just like my friend's exH. It took her 17 years and 2 kids to realise that although he was good-looking, intelligent and funny, actually he was a selfish, alcoholic, screw-up and he would never change.

Honestly, if it wasn't for him being younger than my friend's exH I would have thought you were describing him, almost every detail is the same.

KouignAmann · 12/11/2013 14:05

You sound lovely and you deserve better. I'm with your mum!

quirrelquarrel · 12/11/2013 18:34

Mumbrage

Ach, it's not patronising. I didn't come on here to ask for advice and ignore it all because I think I'll know it all already.
Ordered the book :-D

tonight I'm afraid formative piece composing and the assigned five chapters of Effi Briest will have to be on bolstering duty. i have no time! ;-)

Ellie

To be honest it was a very strange morning and I spent most of it wishing i had a paper bag to breathe in and out of :-p quel drame. just slept badly probably. So I'd never really thought these things before, it just all came out of me in a rush, and I'm too impulsive for my own good so on Mumsnet it went. It IS overanalysis and I've always found that overthinking just spirals so it's best to accept you can't know everything. But I was just angry and somehow wanting to keep the "buzz" so I just made myself angrier by writing that all down. Actually, I think it was the stop thinking start living guy who went on and on about that our subconscious had no need to be liberated and we shouldn't go poking around in our minds because it never did anyone any good ever.....ah, fondly associated with Freshers hangovers for me, that book.

LittleStranger

will do ;-)

mistlethrush

Thanks :-) it was the first thing I did when I got up this morning and it felt good.
I was actually quite touched by what they said because they were so lovely and sensitive. Like, we've had a laugh but never really spoken seriously. Perceptive too!

KouignAmann

I'm running! I'm running!

ah bless you, thanks!

I actually sent my mum a link to this thread (after extracting a firm promise not to MN stalk me of course) because I was a blubbering mess and was too busy letting all my angst out to paraphrase the whole thing. She said she liked the MN tone and that she agrees ;-)

OP posts:
Mumbrage · 12/11/2013 20:29

Great glad the book is on its way. U may see some "agnes" in him . Book aimed at women but an agnes has to inflate their ego by deflating somebody else's.
Readi g your op again he sounds like a man with a big ego but low self worth. Book will wxplain it all very well.

whatdoesittake48 · 12/11/2013 20:31

I wish I had your Mum when I needed it 20 years ago. My ex was almost your ex in terms of confusing behaviour. So loving and kind and witty and charming one minute and a total wanker the next. If i could have had some sense talked into me I would have walked away rather than staying for two years and letting it slide into DV.

People are normally so careful not to interfere - but they really shouldn't. Love your Mum because you are very lucky to have her.

it can take years to recover from an EA relationship, so you have had a lucky escape. All your dreams could have fizzled out due to this boy (I don't say man because he appears somewhat under-matured...)

Loopyloulu · 12/11/2013 20:36

You did the right thing absolutely. He sounds dreadful and a complete head fuck. In your shoes I'd be depressed just thinking about him.

I know others have said this but you could think about other treatment for depression- ADs are not a long term solution and they can blunt your emotions. CBT sounds a good idea as well as support from something like MIND- have you heard about exercise being as good as ADs for mild depression? Are you getting as much help as you can from the uni medical and counselling teams?

quirrelquarrel · 12/11/2013 22:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hissy · 13/11/2013 07:02

Classic abusive response.

Don't engage with him again, if he contacts you call the police and tell them to deal with him as you've ended the relationship.

SuperiorCat · 13/11/2013 07:12

There's some excellent posts on here so there's nothing much I can add. Other than to say your Mum sounds great, she loves and wants the best for you. I wouldn't want my daughter in this relationship.

QuintessentialShadows · 13/11/2013 07:28

I think all 3 sentences in your first paragraph there applies. Don't let him manipulate you into taking him back.

It seems to me you have the measure of this man/boy now. Listen to your gut, your mum and flat mates ( and us).

He is just awful. Awful

Flipflopskid · 13/11/2013 07:38

Hi OP.

You sound like you're all tangled up at the moment.

I had palpitations just reading your post!

Rest assured you are sane and he is causing this tangle in your head/heart.
I had one of these silly little boyfriends. Ticked all the boxes on the outside but nearly sent me crackers before I pulled the rip cord and got him out of my life.

I'm single now and never been happier and will hopefully never feel that needy again!

You deserve better, hell EVERYONE deserves better than you are getting at the moment...

You will also be helping him to grow up in the process.

Good luck

X

JaceyBee · 13/11/2013 07:56

'Amazingly fucked up narcissist' - I NEVER say this on here and it annoys me when people are so quick to bandy the N word around but in this case I think you are right. Your ex is displaying a LOT of traits of unhealthy narcissism and I think you are 100% doing the right thing by ending it. What you said about the inconsistency in his self image and in his parents attitude to him certainly indicates this.

I think he will hurt you badly if you stay with him. He is a very troubled boy and I feel for him but you CANNOT fix him with your love, he needs to find a skilled therapist if he wants to help himself.

Stay strong and keep posting if you have a wobble, we'll be here! Well done for noticing and acting on all this so quickly btw. 6 months is nothing and if think you've learnt something really valuable about yourself now which is great. Smile

GivesYouHell · 13/11/2013 07:59

Are you saying he's in the house with you now and you're meant to be keeping him in the house with you? Or am I misunderstanding?

QuintessentialShadows · 13/11/2013 08:12

Is he one of your flat mates?

He needs to find somewhere else to live.

quirrelquarrel · 13/11/2013 08:30

Morning and thanks for all the replies Smile and on another level just thank you for being here, it is really amazing to get so many people giving me advice, and I'm grateful.

I did actually report my last post to ask HQ to delete it since I felt it was overemotional and anyway I'd been expecting something a bit like it.

He is my housemate yes. There's four of us. Our landlord asked us if we wanted him to move out yesterday coincidentally (the two others have complained about him before) but we said it wasn't at that point yet. Thing is, our rent is super cheap and he can still barely afford that (although he's very secretive about how much money he has and where he gets it from), so if he moved out, where would he go? The landlord's saying do you want me to talk to him (luckily she's super helpful and understanding) but it's going to do absolutely nothing. I guess we'll see that happens but at the moment I don't think the landlord could legally evict him so far- what's he done, he's got an alcohol problem and annoys his housemates, that's all. Of course I would be happier if he were gone.

My other housemates said I could call them any time over the weekend (one's leaving for a bit the other's staying) and that he was as much their problem as mine, they were really lovely last night too.

Landlord says he'll put a lock on my door soon.

must get up and shower now so sorry for no individual replies.

OP posts:
MadBusLady · 13/11/2013 09:34

I've written an equally looooong response to your original post which I'll post in a minute, but I've just read your update and want to address that first.

I'm really not happy about your situation today. I'm sure the CSO thought she was being helpful and letting one student "lapse" go Hmm but if I understand correctly they've basically left it up to you and your housemates to keep a violent, unstable man under house arrest, which is just nuts. A student "lapse" might be stealing a wheelie bin or having a fight with a fellow student. Not punching a 14yo FFS. This is very serious. Why should he be shielded from the consequences of his criminal actions? I'm just surmising here, but if he looks/sounds like he's from an affluent background, she may have been way too generous in assuming he's just being a daft student, rather than the complete fuck-up we know him to be.

Can you contact the CSO again and find out how long you're in this dangerous position for and what's going to happen next? I'm not quite sure how she gets away with just doing "paperwork" when an assault has taken place, surely this has to come to police attention at some point?

In the meantime, if you feel in any danger whatsoever, fuck "keeping him in the house", get out of there, and if he threatens you call the police immediately. You're not a bloody security guard. You've already gone through a rollercoaster of realisations and emotions over the last 48 hours. Be prepared to consider the possibility that this man could be a lot more dangerous - including towards you - than any of you have imagined so far, and do not hesitate to act.

And PLEASE do not, for one second, give a shiny shit about his passport or his record. If he doesn't want to get a criminal record, he has the option of not engaging in criminal acts.

MadBusLady · 13/11/2013 09:36

Assuming (I hope) that you're through the worst of the crazy, a few points for future reference:

  1. Stop beating yourself up for not having perfect insight into everything and everyone at 18, you silly-billy Grin I didn't have a fucking clue at 18 (and also fell into a relationship with a charismatic and bonkers EA manipulator). Parents, housemates etc are there precisely to give you sanity checks so that you learn. And you've learned pretty quickly. I didn't have that feedback and I stuck with that bloke for five years.
  1. I think you'll look back on paras 4-8 in a couple of weeks and think "Why the fuck was I so interested in why this twat does the twattish things he does? What's it to me?" I hope you will, anyway. I was very tempted not to read beyond the first couple of paras like other posters - not because it was too long, but because the case was clear-cut by the end of para three. Trying to analyse the behaviour of someone like this is a waste of your brain.
  1. Talking of which, this passage is interesting:

When I met him and we talked on facebook he sounded so pompous and styled, different to IRL, and seemed to concerned with protecting a precise image of himself, dressing flamboyantly but then moved onto saying really hurtful cutting things about me: how no one liked me except him because I was too strange, too ugly, fat (I'm not fat at all but obviously if I were looking at this through the 'he's a mysognist' lens I would see that he's using fat as an umbrella term for 'all that is bad' and making me feel bad generally- no offence to anyone here, it is not what I think). We had a LOT of arguments about this and he finally made an effort to stop and I noticed a difference.

Imagine you met a prospective friend and a little way in to the friendship they started saying horrible things to you. You'd think "Ooh, weirdo" and back off, wouldn't you? The point at which he started being nasty and you felt you had to argue rather than just walk away and laugh about it with your mates is the point to reflect on, I think. Partly it comes down to the way society socialises women to "work on" relationships, communicate, try to understand etc. Until you know better, you assume that this is appropriate behaviour for all situations, even situations where you're being treated like shit. Once you're though that looking glass and you've started taking shit from a romantic partner in a way you never would from a friend or a colleague, you don't have anything to anchor you to reality any more, hence you're more likely to accept increasingly heinous stuff. Which is what abusers rely on, of course.

  1. Favourite obscure writers. Oh, I've been there. If you're very clever (you sound very clever) it can be a complete headrush to get to university and suddenly meet men people you can have proper conversations with. Take it easy on this score, though. For a start, there is more than one man who knows about your favourite obscure writer. Second, people grow, and a whole lot of men who may currently appear a bit callow will become more intellectually rounded and attractive to you in this respect as you move through university. Third, honestly, I'd now say that beyond a certain basic compatibility, an intellectual spark is NOT the most important thing, and the 18yo me would never have dreamed of thinking that. Basically, don't believe that the favourite obscure writer thing means Fate is at work.

Hope you have a calm day today. Flowers

QuintessentialShadows · 13/11/2013 09:54

"so if he moved out, where would he go?"

This is honestly not your problem! Part of growing up and living on your own is that you have to realize the link between cause and effect, and that you have to behave in a civilized manner as people wont pick up your slack and cover for you like a parent might do with a younger teen.

He is not your responsibility! He is a young adult behaving badly, and he needs to see the consequences of this. It is not for you to teach him, or shield him from the reality of life.

Do you all have individual contracts with the landlord? If so, it is up to landlord to give him notice. You will need to complain to her and tell her that you are scared and because of his behaviour you may all give notice if he stays. As a landlord she would not want the hassle of finding new tenants. She might want to get rid of him as he is a liability in her property.

If you have a contract together, you all need to sit down together and tell him that the cohabiting will have to end because this is not working out. You will find somebody else to replace him, and speak to your landlord about either taking the tenancy just between the three of you, or draw up a new contract with the new person once you find him/her.

My guess is that your own mental health problems will improve once this person is out of your life and your home for good.

And remember, you make your bed, or rather, HE has made his bed now he has to lie in it. YOU are not responsible for him.

MadBusLady · 13/11/2013 10:31

(Minor correction: I should have said "case was clear-cut by the end of para 4")

Hissy · 13/11/2013 10:36

Your LL wants him out - take her up on it!

Let HER be the bad guy! IYCWIM. :)

Grab the opportunity to clear your home of someone that is disturbed and violent.

Let me tell you if I were your LL, and being asked or thinking I needed to put a lock on someone's door to protect her from someone like this, believe me I'd be terminating his contract any way I could.

Get him out of your home, get him out of your life, he is awful and is super dangerous.

Don't feel any sympathy. A man like this could kill. 2 women a week are killed by their partners/former partners.

bragmatic · 13/11/2013 10:42

Show him this thread. Especially this bit:

Oi! Quirrelquarrel's ex boyf!! You're a dick! She's well rid! Grow up!

QuintessentialShadows · 13/11/2013 10:53

I would not show him this thread.

In fact, she wont need to, he is already snooping on her, is he not? Hmm

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