Loosing perspective.

[perdominum]

For 8 years I've been married to C. In that time I've got to the point where I just don't know if I am coming or going.

Yesterday was just one more of those occasions. I was asked by C to do the laundry on Saturday, it needed doing and so there was no problem in that. I did the darks wash because there wasn't much for a whites. Yesterday, after I'd been given "permission" to take our eldest daughter to church I got back and C found a top in the laundry that hadn't been done (and which C didn't need) and flew into a rage. It led to a massive row over the same issue over and over: C flies into a rage at everything I'm "incompetent" with and rather than just ask me to put the other items in the wash berates me for "doing something wrong". It usually involves me being put down and insulted. I object to the way I'm spoken to, but in C's mind the shouting and telling off is justified as is C's anger and I'm demanded to apologise. Whenever I try and argue the point C manipulates the argument to constantly keep the blame on me, if I don't back down C gets aggressive. On a number of occasions I have things thrown at me or am hit if I don't back down. It has even happened in front of the kids.

Yesterday, after the row had simmered we needed to go out. C put the kids in the car and asked me to fetch something from the house. C then drove off with the kids in the car and I could see them crying and looking back in the car. I could see C had stopped just round the corner and I got in the car. The kids were sobbing.

Later that night our eldest daughter expressed an opinion about her favourite colour being the same as her best friend's. C called our daughter "pathetic" and ranted at her about her best friend being a stupid tom boy and then really insulted her. I was powerless to stand up for my daughter without another screaming row kicking off.

C drinks a lot, and can be horrible to me when drunk. The average is to see off 10-14 cans of cider over a weekend, with the bulk being drunk on a Fri and Sun night. A lot of Friday nights are spent with C binge drinking and flicking through the music channels on Sky which C knows grates on me. C usually goes on about how great a taste in music C has and how mine is crap, and how sad I am, and it usually has the odd exaggerated laughing at me along with the insults. C's behaviour become erratic and it's not uncommon for me to be sat there cringing while C starts whooping and hollering at the TV and declaring how brilliant acts like Maralyn Manson and Slipknot are. I feel afraid and anxious at C's erratic behaviour and can't relax. This apparently provokes C's drinking especially if I ask for C to slow down.

I don't go out much. If I do I'm worried I'll come home and C will have been drinking heavily. If that happens I know I'm going to be subjected to an aggressive interrogation about where I've been and what we have talked about, especially if it involves C, and the interrogation becomes more intense and aggressive. C will occasionally go through my phone looking for text messages and randomly deleting things. I've let friendships slide and C constantly tells me I have no friends because nobody likes me. The fact is I've always had a small but close group of friends but over the years have learned that being in a group and being socially gregarious is a route to being criticised by C and facing a long drawn out character assassination on the way home so now I just say nothing and keep quiet whenever we go out.

The way our finances are set up I pay all of the bills, which accounts for most of my income, and C pays for the child care and general spending, but C has all of the family's disposable income. While C spends on clothes and going out and doing what C wants, if I do the same I am heavily criticised. I actually rely on hand me down clothes from C's family.

I'm a catholic C is agnostic. I've been chided about believing in sky fairies. C has done everything possible to get me to sever my ties with the church (I only go very occasionally now). C has threatened divorce if I don't agree with C that God doesn't exist. C plans things to regularly clash with me trying to take our daughters to the parish on Sunday mornings even though most of their friends go to church. I'm usually insulted and called thick and unintelligent for believing in anything more than myself. C knew I was catholic when we met and while I've never pushed my beliefs on C, C has done everything possible to get me to agree I'm wrong and C is right.

I keep a diary of events, here are some extracts:

Sunday 21st July 2013

C had been out on Fri night and had come home so drunk that at one point in the night had got up and gone into the en-suite and collapsed on
the floor and passed out on a pile of towels. On Sunday started
drinking again and I commented C hadn't had any time to
recover and that drinking again so soon after being so seriously drunk
less than 36 hours ago was not a good idea for health. C threatened to
glass me in the face and throw things at me unless I shut up and told me was having "fun" and was going to drink more to spite me and
demanded I apologise for being boring and "abusing".

Sat 13th July 2013
C's parents stayed over I went for a haircut. While out C's mother said
something that wound C up. C phoned me after 45 mins to demand to know where I was. I got home and went upstairs, got down and C told me to put suncream on girls and brush their hair. I went upstairs to do this and C started screaming at me to get downstairs, then counted down from 5 to "totally loosing it". Started yelling abuse at me and sent girls upstairs to get a shower and wash suncream off and go to their rooms as a punishment for my "poor behaviour". Claimed I was upstairs for an hour (15 mins at most) and had been out for 2 hours (45 mins - I timed it). C claimed was ill and that wanted me where I could be seen and told me to sit on sofa and not move. Went to get a glass of water and C told me to tip it away and was only going to let me drink when it suited as C wanted me to suffer. I got another drink and gulped it down and brought a second glass into living room. C claimed to be so ill needed to go to hospital immediately so I told C to get in the car, C threw remote control full force into my face and started screaming "fuck off and die!" repeatedly in my face. Then picked up a small wooden chair and threw that at me while I was sat down. I picked chair up and put it back and got glass of water. C had picked remote up and threw it at me again spilling some of the water on me with the force
of being hit. C laughed at me. C eventually calmed down and went into the garden and left me in the house.

1/12/12

C Going out at 8pm, opened front door and saw the advent wreath wasn't on as C would like. Started abuse - I am a fucking gypo, arsehole with no standards, belong on a council estate, no one else would have me, lucky to be allowed to live under the same roof, claimed I did it deliberately to deliberately did it to annoy C and deserve to be abused, no friends, miserable, no wonder no-one likes you. Told me C wants all the laundry ironed tonight as I won't be allowed to do it tomorrow or I won't be living here tomorrow.

There's more all along the same lines.

Am I loosing perspective? Is this normal behaviour in a marital home? I constantly live in fear and am walking on eggshells at everything I do provoking the kind of responses above. C won't accept that anything is wrong in the marriage unless I accept it is my fault. Sex happens only when C wants and is all about C. If I try and talk to C about how I feel I'm usually shouted down or the conversation is twisted as to why everything wrong in the marriage is my fault and that if I don't like it I can leave because C will just find someone better than me.

Oh op what an utterly heartbreaking post. I couldn't read it all it was so upsetting.

My aunt physically and emotionally abused my uncle, a lovely mild mannered man, for many years. It had a devastating effect on them all.

I really think you need some advice and to start formulating an escape plan because you need to protect your children from this vile woman

"Also, I feel an obligation to try until the last to make this work".

You've already tried hard enough and what you have tried to date has not worked. There is no other option now but to legally separate. I am RC and I would not dismiss divorce either. Walking on eggshells is code to my mind for "living in fear". You are all living in fear of C.

Its time to walk away from C with your children in tow, there is nothing to rescue and or save here. Staying with C just allows you and your children to be further abused and that damage could well stay with them into their own adult relationships too. TBH if you were to separate and I would urge you to do so as there is abuse here, would you want to stay in this house anyway?.

It is not your fault C is this way; her own childhood was highly likely itself to have been an abusive one on multiple levels.

You cannot rescue and or help someone this damaged; you are too close to the situation to be of any real help and importantly C does not want your help.

I wouldn't say she's an alcoholic, she goes through the week without drinking, but then binges at the weekend. I've tried refusing to buy her any, she just flies into a rage and tells me it's nothing to do with me what she decides to drink. She then uses it as an excuse to carry on drinking to "spite" me.

She used to get through about a bottle and a half of wine a night, she's reduced the amount she drinks because she's put weight on since our second child and can't shift it and she's switched to cider (which is better than white wine - that's the crazy juice). She now gets through an average of a pack of 10 cans of cider per weekend, sometimes more, very rarely less. Her view is that she drinks less than most women.

I've found that she can be like this sober or drunk, but drinking lowers her inhibitions.

The other thing I think is that it may be hormonal (please don't shoot me down as an unreconstructed "man" for this) as it ebbs and flows and the worst of it tends to be concentrated over a period of a week or two every couple of months.

Mankind operate a national helpline for male victims of domestic violence

www.mankind.org.uk

National helpline: 01823 334244

If you are in immediate danger call 999.

Kotinka: I don't think it would escalate to that level. She has a habit of taking it to a point then looking for a way out. It's still "my fault" as I cause her to behave that way (apparently - though I know our behaviour is ultimately our choice even when we aren't always aware of how we portray ourselves), but she usually reaches a point then her behaviour changes and becomes more passive-aggressive.

If I thought she might take a knife to me I'd have walked out the door a long time ago.

Alcoholics do not have to drink every day; your wife certainly has problems with alcohol dependency.

It is not shameful to be a male victim of domestic violence; it is more common than Joe Public realises. You need to get yourself and your children away from her and thus safe before she does you serious physical harm.

The damage being done to your children currently is incalculable.

What is your idea of an alcoholic, alcoholics do not have to drink every day nor are always passed out on park benches.

Who knows what lies at the heart of all her dysfunctional behaviour (I would think this all started with her in her own childhood, what do you exactly know about this?) but the thing is she is hurting the very people whom she is supposed to love. This is not what love is at all. She is systematically abusing you and by turn your children who are also caught up in this as well.

Abusers all say what C does; that it was the other person's fault that they kicked off in such a manner. Its part of their script and the nice/nasty cycle is a continuous one.

Please call one of the helplines that have been put up for you.

Atilla: I don't know a great deal about her background as in many ways what she says doesn't stack up to what I observe. Her parents live close to us, they used to live in the same village before we moved. Her mother can be utterly unreasonable, manipulative, and can be quite horrible to C. Her dad is spineless. I've stood and listened to C's mother say some utterly horrible things to C in her dad's presence and her dad refuses to even acknowledge something is going on and buries his head so her mother's behaviour goes unchecked. The thing that upset me most was when C was saying some things to our eldest I found vile, but I elected not to do anything rather than provoke another fight. I knew I was behaving in the same way that C's father does and why she feels no-one ever stands up for her so that she feels she has to behave the way she does because she's the only one who fights for herself. But, her mother's behaviour while showing many of the same traits is not as bad as C's. I've told C that she has traits like her mother, C refuses to accept it and I'm forced to apologise for having an opinion that's wrong. C'est la vie.

I don't know much about C's love life prior to us meeting. I know (and am actually friendly with) her ex immediately before me. They were due to get married but she called it off and he had a hard time with that. What I didn't know when I first met C was that they were still living under the same roof, but I have no idea whether they were still "together" or not. I don't know how many relationships, serious or otherwise she had before she met me. The trend I do detect is that she would grow quickly bored of a boyfriend and move on. As for how many times and/or how long I've no idea.

She fell pregnant within 3 months of us meeting so it didn't really give me a lot of time to really get to know her, and the stories have varied.

What a terrible situation. I want to tell you that you should say she has crossed a line and that the relationship is over as soon as possible but I'm worried that until you can get her/or you + kids out the house that she will escalate her violence and you'll all be in more danger. Can you get some free legal advice from citizen's advice etc about forcing her out of the house so you can sell up? Would social services be any use?

The mankind website looks excellent, could you call them?

If you feel embarrassed about contacting the police when she is violent (a crime) then could you focus it on that you are worried about the children? They really could do with some counselling themselves so that they can see that this is not normal and is not their fault. I speak from personal experience that they will be so much happier if you can get them out of that atmosphere - they will feel sad about their mother but will flourish as children.

Can the church help you practically? Could you save up a fund so that if you had to get out for a while that you could stay somewhere safe (even a hotel)?

Pls pls keep on with your diary - it was invaluable when my mother left my father for similar reasons. Unfortunately my mother had to stop paying the mortgage and have the house repossessed in order to get away and rent a new home but that was a long time ago and hopefully there is something better that can be done.

Keep posting.

that's not helpful Val007

Val: I pay the bills i.e. the mortgage and everything else. That accounts for about 80% of my salary. Commuting costs take up most of what's left. I spend about £20 a week on coffees and bits and pieces and that about puts me at the bottom of my overdraft each month.

She drank heavily before we met. We had a heady romance (one way of putting it) after we had split up with our exes and she fell pregnant so didn't drink for about 10 months.

Do I drive her to it? Like I said, I'm far from perfect and at times could probably test the patience of a saint. I think deep down I've known for a long time that even when I do things that piss her off, the reaction is way out of kilter. Prime example: we were in a car park looking for a space one day. It was packed. She wanted me to stop behind a car that someone was putting their shopping into but showed no signs of actually going. we wer4e blocking the cars behind and so I moved on. She started screaming and yelling at me that that was "her" parking space. She carried on screaming and swearing at me and when I found a parking space a few minutes later and parked up she stormed off and wouldn't talk to me for the rest of the day. Annoyed at the delay in parking and me moving on when she wanted me to stay - I could accept that. Screaming and swearing and flipping out at me, that struck me as too much.

Val007 would you have advised a woman posting about her abusive husband to take a long hard look at herself and ask what she has done to make her husband act that way? Questioned her story? What a terribly sexist post.

Just wanted to add that slapping and throwing things are violent acts that should involve the police. Pls don't see this as normal. You really need her away from the children.

kids model their relationships on those of their parents, imagine if your girls grew up to behave like her. Their lives would be miserable.

This is horrendous. Posters on MN say this a lot, but it doesn't make it a less pertinent observation: is this what you want your kids to see as a normal relationship? This is clearly what C has learnt growing up from her own parents: are you willing to repeat the pattern?

I say this from experience: my mother was a horrible, horrible bully to my father for years. And I try really hard not to treat my partner like shit, but I can hear her voice in my head all the time, being a mean-spirited oul' bitch, because that's what I knew as a kid. It takes a massive effort not to repeat the behaviour, and when I slip, the look on my husband's face is heart-breaking. Do you want the same for your daughters?

You are an articulate, loving father. It's time to do better for yourself and your children.

I am not approving of her reactions, on the opposite. But the sheer strength and dramatism of those speak volumes about the underlying causes.

Sexist or not, we are not equal, that's for sure. Men and women are different. That's why we are called 'women' and they 'men'. Nothing equal about us, sorry. More fool to whoever believes equality, haha.

Hi perdominum,

Re your comment to me:-

"Atilla: I don't know a great deal about her background as in many ways what she says doesn't stack up to what I observe. Her parents live close to us, they used to live in the same village before we moved. Her mother can be utterly unreasonable, manipulative, and can be quite horrible to C. Her dad is spineless. I've stood and listened to C's mother say some utterly horrible things to C in her dad's presence and her dad refuses to even acknowledge something is going on and buries his head so her mother's behaviour goes unchecked. The thing that upset me most was when C was saying some things to our eldest I found vile, but I elected not to do anything rather than provoke another fight. I knew I was behaving in the same way that C's father does and why she feels no-one ever stands up for her so that she feels she has to behave the way she does because she's the only one who fights for herself"

Well there you have it; her own childhood was dysfunctional at the very least and this was and remains learnt behaviour. There were also some red flags in the early days of your relationship with her as well.

A rational and emotionally balanced person would not behave in the ways she does. That is still NO justification for her abuse of you and by turn the children now and it is NOT your fault she is abusive.

You cannot help anyone like this, besides which she does not want your help. All you can do is help your own self and that of your children by leaving her.

Please do call Mankind; you are by no means the only man who is caught up in an abusive relationship. They can and will help you and your children here. You realistically do not have any other option but to leave and with your children.

Val, you are being unhelpful at the very least.

Pls ignore Val he/she clearly has no knowledge of domestic violence and cares very little about the welfare of your children.