surely if it's in my home it's private..???

[shhhh]

Will try and be brief...

I have always "tollerated" my in laws although there have been times when my mil in particular has been hard work. But I always found my fil easier to get on with.
Once our dd was born a year ago I suffered with pnd so among other things (ie being new gp's and wanting to see dd alot, just like my own parents) I found my relationship with my pil suffering and in an attenpt to try and to help me help myself I got a book recommended by fellow mner's. (Toxic inlaws) It's not a "bad" destructive book but gave you advice and help with inlaws etc.

Now 6 weeks ago at dd's 1st birthday my inlaws got v v v drunk (I was sober), blew up at me and in particular my fil. He said things to me that not even my parents would say to me and all in dh & I's home. DH asked them to leave and we haven't heard from them since. During the argument my fil said " she's had it a long time coming"..

Now dh doesn't want this to go on any longer esp as dd gets christened in 2 weeks time, his plans are to visit them next week allowing them the chance to apologise etc. I have on numerous occasions discussed this argument with dh esp the bit about it "being a long time coming". Only today has dh mentioned the fact that his parents may be aware of this "book". He says it's just a thought that maybe while we were away last year and they were checking on the home they may have seen it due to it being on my bedside table...also they have looked aftre dd on a few occasions at ours and they may have had an opportunity to have "seen" this book.
My reply to dh was " it;s my home and I am entitled to read whatever I like. Why should I feel like I have to hide my items for fear of offending etc". The book would have been in our room and as far as i'm concerned they would have had to have gone out of their way to have seen it....

Whats peoples views..? If this book has added to my pil's outburst then surely they are even more in the wrong for snooping iykwim...Surely what is in someone;s home is private and confidential. For all they knew it could have been a friends, could be on it's way to a friend etc...

DH say's that it probably nothing to do with the argument but it's just a thought...but he remembers seeing it once back off hol's and thought "shit, it really should have been put away". I on the otherhand didn't think anything bad as the book really was for self help iykwim.
I don't know if dh knows something he's not letting on...

i wouldn't worry too much about them seeing the book unless they explicitly say something, in which case they'd be admitting to snooping and you've got the high ground. i don't think they'll bring it up because they'll know they shouldn't have looked.

maybe it'll give them food for thought!

thanks warthog..it's put my mind at ease you saying that. I'm not the type of person who likes arguing with others or feels' good if I have offended someone iykwim..Basically I hate confrontation BUT aftre 10 eyars with my pil I finally had the guts to stand up for myself.

It's worried me today thinking that they may have seen this book and tbh I felt like a kid who's parents had found something they had hidden..Not like a 27 year old woman...

Like you said, I suppose nothing will be said for fear of admitting and owing up.
mmm I also noticed today that this book is missing...will go on a hunt for it..but maybe the plot thickens...

If you want to have hooks on the walls and chain your H to them and whip him it is totally your right within your own home and has bugger all to do with anyone else (apart from H who may object)

..Thats a point..! True..Gosh dh would prob not have a problem..!!! Ha ha ha...!!!

I would never speak to them again. Honestly doll, anyone who does that to you is just too evil to bother with. My ILaws are a bloody nightmare. I hate them. None of them want to DD and my MIL doesn't even want to be called Nanny or grandma. She put her own name on my DD birthday card

I'd try not to worry too much Shhh...if they weren't toxic you wouldn't have had to have the book in the first place - so it's not as if they've just started to be difficult following seeing that book, it sounds as if they were difficult and as though there were tensions there before anything to do with that.
As well as that, I personally regard my bedroom as my private sanctury - I don't like other people's children going in there and I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable with people going in there while I was away - not because I have anything to hide, but because it's my space.
I think if I was a p-i-l and found a book entitled like that I'd feel really hurt, but after the hurt I'd then go in for some introspection to work out just why someone would need a book to deal with me. I too hate confrontation, but sometimes something like this could clear the air and in years to come make your relationship with them far better. Good luck!

it's such a shame how relationship with pil go...I can honestly say I tried with my pil and dh knows this as well. Given how things have been over the years the last year I have really put 100% into our relationship.Mainly for the sake of dd and wanting her to see a good family.
Things like buying lovely and thoughtful christmas/birthday/wedding anniversary gifts. Things that dh being a bloke would never in 100 years think of. And all for what..?
I took time out of my weekends to go shopping with my mil to allow her more time with dd and also so she didn't feel left out as I do see my mum during the week. I also sat at theirs while dh & fil went to the match etc..I just feel stupid now for doing it.Obviously they had a different opinion of me and didn't show it to my face.

Well personally, if I had had the book and had known my PILs were coming round to my house, I would have hidden the book, as it is a bit of an insensitive title and it is clear to see that it would hurt them.

OTOH, they are being rather OTT if that is what has upset them, and their behaviour at your dd's birthday was exceptionally rude and uncalled-for. How dare they say such things to you?

I would leave it all to your dh to sort out. After all, the main relationship here is between them and him.

ellaroo I agree BUT also if I found a book like that at my dil or sil although I would be upset I would also be positive about the fact that they we obviosly trying to do something positive to help the relationship. It would in turn make me question my actions etc.

BUT that said, I would NEVER snoop in someone's room and if I did I would be 110% to blame for what I found.FFS I don't even help myself to food or a drink at my parents or pil..! It's their home and not mine and I don't feel it too much asking for the same respect.

ddg, I hear what you are saying..BUT I didn't leave the book out on purpose. It's a book thats been on my table for months..part of the fixtures and fitting etc.

It;s like everything in your home. Items are in places you forgot about.

It has got more to do with thing rather than a book. You don't even know for sure if it has been seen. ILaws don't like outsiders and get jelous they are desp to pick faults and belittle us. Don't feel guilty hun.

I'm off to bed now.Thanks for the kind advice everyone. More advice welcome..!!
xx

hmmm. I think the book is, perhaps, a bit of a red herring.

The main thing I get from your post is that your PIL behaved appallingly to you, to your face, in your own home. And whether or not they saw the book is irrelevant - they behaved inexcusably.

But you almost seem to be looking to the book as an excuse as to why the row might be in some way your fault. Even if they did see the book -so what. At least it proves that you were trying to deal with them, or at most that you had a problem with them. It's certainly not a licence to abuse you. And if they did see it, they were snooping, and I completely agree with you about this putting them even more in the wrong.

You seem to have gone the extra mile all the way through this, to try and keep the relationship going. I think that now you have to stand firm, and wait for an apology. Perhaps something good will come out of this in that the air would clear, but who knows.

Oh, and I think your dh sounds like he's being a star through this - trying to sort an apology but taking your side.

I'd ignore the book and just concentrate on the main point, which is that they behaved very badly. And owe you an apology. If dd was there at the time, it's pretty near unforgiveable IMO.

thanks for the last 2 posts. Seems you all feel the same as I do about it.
You are right twocatsonthebed, the issue is the argument and I know somehow I have been thinking maybe the cause was me..I have been like this from the start and even before the book was thought about. I keep thinking it over and maybe it was my fault as I was sober, maybe I was to confontational BUT then again I wasn't the one who lowered myself by swearing and esp not to my pil..Strange thing is that i'm the type of person that has respect for "adults" to speak to them in this way iykwim...LOL I'm an adult myself..!! Maybe they would have had more respect for me if it was me who told them to eff off.!!

Yes dh is being brilliant...I feel so sorry for him because he's in the middle and didn't really get involved in the argument as such. It all went to badly to quickly for him to say much..!! BUT he stuck up for me and has amazed me as a husband. I hope things are sorted for his sake but i'm sorry but things have changed now for me. My role is as a dw and I will do my upmost to keep family issues "sweet" once/if the issue is sorted.

Why did your fil say, you'd had it a long time coming? Something must have been festering away there for a while. Did it become clear to you what they don't like about you or the way you behave or was he just heaping drunken abuse on you?

Awful situation. Don't think I'd want them back in the house TBH but you always have to go the extra mile with family for the sake of dd really, don't you?

It was very rude and crap of them imo, esp given the occasion. I'd need to calm down and then I'd be looking for an apology tbh and I'd be expecting my dh to tell them not to do it again. None of their business what you are or have been reading.

Only skimmed the rest of the thread, so don't know whether anyone has raised this perspective, but last year I bought the book 'Toxic Parents' and was reading it at home. Like you, I felt that this was my home and my privacy, and I didn't need to hide the book. All my family were due to come over one day. My sister arrived first and spotted the book on the coffee table. She asked me outright whether I had left the book out deliberately so that my parents would see it. It had never occurred to me that someone would think that, but I immediately realised that that is how my parents would interpret the situation. Not that I was reading purely for interest, or in an attempt to improve my parenting, but as a direct comment on their parenting. As a result I put the book on the bookshelf in my room - if they saw it they would see it, but not in a way that they might think that it was left out for them to see.

I wonder whether your ILs took offence at seeing the book, assuming that it was left out deliberately for them to see and drew assumptions about you as a result.

Hugely unfair, of course, and we can't live our lives in they know that you know that they know etc.

No suggestions how to deal with them, sorry. But huge admiration for your dh. Very very tough position for him.

sss,I still have no idea why fil said "i'd had it coming". Dh says that it was just a drunken statement and along with the other things said I shouldn't take it to heart. IMO what's said in drunkeness usually is the truth.

PC I totally agree with you and if I had left it out on purpose then fair enough but I never even gave it a 2nd thought (the same as you). Other point that if they had seen it, it wouldn't have been in the lounge etc it was on my bedside table.!! My side of the bed is the furthest away from the door and nowhere near the window so they would have gone out of their way to have seen it..

I think I feel a bit stronger about the whole issue now..maybe the book wasn't anything to do with the argument or the build up but if it was I am entitled to do what I like in my own home.

Well dh is planning on visiting them this weekend in readyness for dd's christening..I don't intend to join him and I fully expect them to apologise to my face although I am very concerned about them coming to my home again. DH & I have also agreed that under no circumstances will my pil be offered booze in our home. The meal after dd's christening worries me as I can hardly tell them not to drink..!!

BTW i'm 10 weeks pregnant (found out 2 weeks after the argument) and we are 99% sure they know...still not a word from them....

what else did they say to you in this outburst?

your DH is not in the middle and it may serve you well to remind him of that - there is no middle you and your children are now his family.

this is a much forgotten relationship faux pas IMO.

you get a dp/dh then your family are each otehr and the children.

everyone else is more than secondary - even if you love them very very very much - loyalties, duties and love are primarily with your partner and children - there is no middle - and "he may be very good considering..." but do remind him.

my husband is like many. he doesn't rock the boat. his DM has made many insensitive remarks and done things over the years which have left me in tears on many an occasion.

however there was an occasion MIL was talking about me - to him! obviously thinking this was ok. when he firmly said " you are talking about my WIFE!" It was never done in front of him again.

another relationship faux pas (IMO) is over estimating how precious grandchildren are to their grandparents. this can lead to much heart break.

they may not like you. but they love their son ( one presumes) and would like to see him. if any effort is made to see your children - they should be the doing of it.

would they bother - probably not as often as you liked.

my husband would not make the first move to go to see then - to give them the chance to aplogise????

i think not. we are in the 21st century. they could just as easily use the phone.

and they are not apologising to him. they are apologising to you.

i would act very much the injured party. be very stiff. overly well mannered. polite but curt and very short. never instigating a conversation and keeping any communication short.

sometimes men have to stand up for their family. and say "OI!! i am the alpha male in my house fuck off" metaphorically ofcourse!

custy, you have made sense..I need to clairfy dh though. It's not him you says he's in the middle..Its me who thinks that, Its me who feels I have involved him in the argument iykwim. BUT dh has exactly the same opinion as you and has been the one to stand up and say "oi this is my wife".
I have said to him on numerous occasions to go and see his parents BUT he's replied " no way, they has disrespected me by using such language in my home and to my dw." I actually feel proud knowing that he's willing to fight for me but of course thats only natural I am his dw after all..!!
He commented the same as you and has said it since dd arrived. We are now his family and everyone else comes 2nd. He is the one who says this and feels that us 3 are family. He really doesn't care about "outsiders". This argument has made him even more so.

I agree with the apologising bit but I can't stop dh trying to mend the situation. He feels he wants to give his parents a chance to apologise..I don't think it will work as surely if they were to apologise it would have been before now and also if they do it when he see's them what about my apology..?? We then need to go through the whole situation again and believe me, I am well prepared to tell them things from my own point of view. I can't believe that a set og gp's who doted on dd and who HAD to see her everyweek whatever have not seen her for nearly 2 months. Makes me sad.
DH main reason for contacting them is due to the fact he doesn't want to fall out with them he doesn't want to not speak for 10 + years etc. His dad is v stubborn so I know this argument could go on.DH is very strong but they are his parents and I think he fels sad its come to this.

Lots was said that day, they were drunk I was sober. His mum tried stirring between us (as usual) and I for once bite back. She didn't like it so turned away from me which I think is ignorant. I asked her to look at me esp when she has started the discussion. FIL said I was being disrespectful to my mil and I saw the argument going bad ways. I told him I'm not allowing this argument to continue as i'm sober and they are drunk so not a good combination. FIL told me to eff off. He followed me upstairs giving further abuse even after I told him dd was asleep. Further abuse followed.
DH told them not to speak to me like that etc and asked them to leave. They did so.... very very sad. BUT for years his mother has made comments to me etc that noone else seemed to hear. Or excuses were made..Oh she was drunk or she didn't mean it..or my mu wouldn't say that she loves you blah de dah.

welli hope things get sorted some way or another - sound like an ugly pair they do - horrible situation for you tobe in - family fights are the worst muchio good luck with a resolution of some sort xxx

I always hide stuff that I don't want others to see because I know that humans are made of curiosity and whilst they might not root around in your drawers, obv, they might glance round rooms and see things on drawers. I suppose if I saw such a book I'd think it related to me too and I'd be a tad upset to think that they didn't even try to hide it!

custy, I kind of disagree re the wife/partner/kids etc being the 'new and much more important 'family. I have had (and still have) issue's with my dh's family esp his mum, but I truly respect the fact that she brought him up and he is very much a part of her life and vice versa. I am absolutely not saying your DH should not stick up for you and have no idea of how the dynamics work in your family but both DH and I are quite sensitive to each others families and their issues. Hope you work it out xx

thanks oxocube. Yeah I have been the same with dh and his parents. I have tried my best while at the same time thinking "well she is dh's mother and I need to realise that she still feels there is a bond there and at the end of the day he is her son". BUT then that doesn't excuse her behaviour. She also needs to realise that I am now his wife and we have a dd together. It doesn't mean dh doesn't love his dm anyless but his priorities have now changed. He now speaks to me about issues relating to work/money/relationship/friends etc.

I can't begin to think how dh & I will be in 18 years time when dd gets a boyfriend etc or gets married. Knowing she has depended on us for the last 18 years and now she has some else to share her joys with etc. But I hope that we realise that she has to move on and to continue her life and to make her own family. Although knowing we would always be there. Hard I know.