what's the point in us gpoing out alone?

[ollypooh]

Dh and i are supposed to be going out for dinner in the evening alone for the first time since dd was born 2 months ago. He just doesn't seem interested and said he'd book the restaurant but didn't becuase "he was watching the football" he says he wants to go but it seems i have to make all the arrnagements ( i've sorted out the babysitter and suggested where to go) and he can't even be bothered to book a table. Might aswell not bother going now. Am i overreacting?

no, i dont think you are at all. its not much help him doing stuff to help just when it suits him, you need his support and 'interest' at all times

Thanks everyone. things have improved slightly this morning but i'm having real trouble dealing with him bringing baby upstairs and then leaving him crying to punish me. Don't think i can forgive that and it's going to cause me to feel very negative towards him. Any advice on what to do about this

Hi
I remember when ds2 was a tiny baby, dp - who is the most supportive, wonderful, amazing partner ever - used to come and dump him in the bathroom while I had a bath - he'd be screaming and it was the beginning of yet another day where he'd scream and cry all day (something he did from birth - 14 weeks) and she just couldn't take it. At the time I hated her for leaving him in the bathroom with me while I was having a bath and so in no position to comfort him - but it was all she could do. His screaming and crying certainly affected her in a worse way than me - it would drive her BONKERS in a really angry way, but I could block it out slightly better - so it was probably right that at certain times she just left him, knowing I was around and will deal with it.

It's soooooooo tricky and horrendous and muddled up when they're still this young. Dp and I barely made it through the first 3 months of ds2's existence - we'd shout and say horrible things to each other. Maybe your dh is coping the best he can and you still must be knackered and everything's so raw and tense (can you tell I'm remembering back?!).

Maybe he's just too tired to think about going out.

Sorry - no helpful advice, just been there and it does get better as the weeks go on - just keep going and try not to do anything rash - see how it's all going in another month - and try for another night out.

Has this happened regularly or is this the incident from yesterday?

Similar things have happened 3 other times

We had a much better evening today but now just can't sleep as i keep going over it all in my head so have come back on here. Been thinking about all the past arguments and how i thought he wouldn't swear at me again Last time before we had baby was 9 months ago and he seemed so sorry and hadn't done it for so long i believed it wouldn't happen again. But now it's happened a few times in the last 3 wks so scared it will happend every time we have an argument now

Big hugs for you, it is hard with such a young baby. Ours is almost 14 weeks and I felt very much like you during the first 10 weeks or so. I found that sleep deprivation was a huge factor in my feelings.

I bought a book called Baby Shock which was very helpful and put some things into perspective, also printed this out and hung up in our kitchen (hope this works) www.med.umich.edu/1libr/pa/pa_nspouse_pep.htm which gives both partners helpful hints about how to act with your partner once you have had a new baby, including saying that the father should arrange dates sometimes. I don't know if hubby read it ( its only one page so he may well have done !), but he has made more of an effort since, and so have I.

It does sound as if your dh is trying his best, although he does need to apologise for swearing at you, that is not acceptable.

I know the feeling about the feeding times, one day when I was heading out for a bit I was trying to explain to dh about this he was getting a bit narked and so I said that if he didn't follow them I would be the one left getting up in the night, he then said that he would rather be woken up and do the night feedings than have to listen to me again. I was really riled up but then I thought about it and realised that I would have to let a bit of control go otherwise I would end up doing everything myself and dh wouldn't have a relationship with ds ( have also had to let go a a bit when granny babysitting - it is a small price to pay to get out for a bit). Men hate being told what to do almost as much as they hate knowing that they have done something wrong.

Sorry appear to have written a diatribe on this, one thing that really helped us was going on hols for a few days. I thought it would just be like being at home but dh was much more hands on and spent some nice quality time with ds.

Perhaps you could bring it up in a nice way and say that you would like him to make the arrangements for the next evening out.

Sorry, I have meant to come back to this as well, I do feel so much sympathy for you. Your dh obv has things to work though, possibly stemming back before the baby. If only you (both) could get some perspective by having a week off! Yet that not being an option, is there anything you can do, either on your own or together, to help you chill out? I get the impression your dh doesn't understand the effect swearing at you has (and, to be honest, even in my worst moments I never did that with dh, because I knew how it would make me feel in return).

he's said he was shocked with himself for swearing again but he said that he he did it the first tiem after we had baby. We actually slept in the same bed last night (for the last few weeks i've told him i have to sleep separately becuase his snoring keeps me awake) he said this amde him feel bad so said he could come back to our room and hoped it would make a difference. he was nice befor ehe left this morning, did the early morning feed and offerred me breakfast in bed. I want to move on and try to put the last few weeks down to the stresses of being a new mum and dad, but i'm so worried about what happens next time we have an argument and wnat to know if he will make more effort not to get so angry and swear.I feel i have to make him angry just to see if he will keep to what he said about not being so horrible when he is angry. I'm finding it incrasingly difficult to deal with baby because of how i feel - just want to stay in bed all the time now. I'm also scared because until a few days ago ds (9 wks) was smiling and cooing alot but he has virtually stopped for the last few days and i'm worried it's because he's upset by all the shouting. What should i do?

Kicking him out of his bed for snoring doesn't sound like the most sensitive thing to do....although I do sympathise as I have a DH who snores like a snotty walrus .

ITA that swearing is not acceptable especially if he knows it upsets you and undeoubtedly he needs to learn to curb his temper. However it sounds to me as if he is trying his best to be a dad and he is getting knocked back at every turn. The first few months are hard for both parents but don't think you have the monopoly on tiredness/worry/stress. And when it comes to the feeding routine thing, you can't make the rules independently of your DH and then expect him to follow them slavishly. Him dumping the baby upstairs while you were in the bathroom sounds to me like the actions of a frustrated man who feels as if the baby really isn't anything to do with him.

Go out anyway with your DH, try to relax and forget about the baby. If you don't have time together away from baby/home you won't get the chance to mend bridges. Things will improve but you need to ensure you still have a relationship there for when they do. Can you try to talk this over calmly without accusation or anger - tell him how you feel and give him the chance to express his feeling too.

Please don't think that I mean to be unsympathetic because I'm not - the first few months can be hell but that is the case for your DH as well as you. He may feel like he's lost your love and support and that won't make him any easier to live with.

chopstick, you sound like you are depressed and/or knackered. Where are you? Can MN provide some real-life support in the form of a meet-up? I think you need to talk to your hv or GP about how you're feeling, wanting to provoke another argument isn't a very rational response to what's happened, although I can understand your motivation as well. Don't worry unduly about the traumatising effect of a single blow-up on the baby, practically every child on MN would be scarred for life if that were the case!

But equally you do need to find ways of feeling less anxious, are you getting out of the house much? Just a trip to the shop or something can help to lift the spirits a little, although I remember this time last year (my ds is 1 and 2 weeks) going out in the blazing heat with a newborn was very stressful.

I have been going out quite alot onthe days i feel ok but now i can't imagine wanting to do anything. he's also said that i nag him to do things all the time. But the fact is he has said he wants me to ask for help if there's something i can't do myselff, so i do and then i get frustrated when he doesn't do it. So then i ask again and again and then he throws it back at me as "you're always nagging" when we have an argument. I do find it hard to keep a sense of proportion when things annoy me, and i find that small things that irritate me end up becoming huge issues and when he comes to try to make up with me time after time, i just refuse to make up, even thought really i want to. I just can't bring myslelf to. I feel i'm going to have to make him angry again tonight to see if he will be gentle with me like he said. I'm really thinking that it might be best for us to separate as just can't see any future. Don't want to be with a man who swears and shouts and he can't want to be with someone as unforgiving as me.

Honestly, chopstick, everything you've described here is quite normal 'new parents' behaviour, it is very hard on both of you but nothing you've described is a reason to either provoke your dh into an argument or to leave him. Obviously I can only base that on what you've said here, there may be lots of other stuff going on as well.

Please do think about getting some help, is your mum around at all?

Your poor H has had as much change in his life as you recently. Do you really want to be a single mum, and lose your DD at weekends seeing her dad.

None of you will win in that situation espcially your poor DD.

You say 'I feel i'm going to have to make him angry again tonight to see if he will be gentle with me like he said.' That is mean in my opinion. How far are you going to provoke him to get a reaction? If he doesn't react straigt away are you going to escalate it until you get the reaction you obiously want. That's not him being the one with the problem.

Don't provoke a fight and then blame him for reacting he is only human. If you want a fight, if you want him to scream and shout at you to justify you kicking him out then cut to the chase and just kick him out.

How about instead of deliberately provoking a fight be nice instead. Your H obviously loves you and your DD or he wouldn't keep trying to make it up to you or wnting to help and be there for her.

I think you need to talk to a GP or HV or someone else to get some perspective before you do lose your H.

my dh and were exactly like this. We had a blazing row on Friday about it all, and decided that what we needed was to be kind to each other and not criticise or feel criticised. Its hard to let someone else do things for a baby differently from how I'd do it, but I had to realise that if I wanted help, I had to let dh do things his way too. I don;t think the hot weather helps in staying calm either.

thanks tribpot. It just feels that people are saying i shouldn't put up with dh swearing and shouting, so maybe it's wrong to stay with him. Is it really normal to be like this when you first have a baby??i'd hoped it'd be the happiest time ever for us and make us closer. The first week was like that, we were forever saying we loved eachother and very affectionate (as affectionate as we could be in the circumstances!) but after the first disagreement we had, it's gone from bad to worse. he does do alot for me for example - nearly every night will massage my feet (even offers to do it when i'm angry with him), if we're going out will drive back so i can have a couple of drinks, not at all mean or controlling with money (he's always earnt loads more than me)and never moans about what i spend and happy for me to give up work which i hated, keeps coming to see me after an argument(well comes back 3 or 4 times) to try to make up, does all the ironing, does nearly half early morning & nighttime feeds, if baby cries during dinner he will go to look after him. I just don't know what to do as i know he can be nice but i've seen a side of him over the last few weeks i don't want to risk seeing again. Any opinions anyone?

thanks kathlean, You're right i don't want to end up a single mum not seeing my little one at weekend. I'm just having troubel forgiving the shouting and swearing. I want to just put it down to the stresses we've been under and adjusting to our new life but i'm having real troubel doing so and just keep worrying he will do it again next time he is angry. I want us to be happy toghther and give our baby a happy home

chopstick, your husband sounds great. TBH, I don't know any men who are this supportive (my DH certainly wasn't!) I don't know you or your situation in real life so I'm trying not to judge, but you sound like one luck lady to me and re your husband losing his temper - that's normal from time to time given the circumstances, isn't it? Or am I being thick?

You're proably right oxocube, i should be grateful for what i've got (and although it might not sound like it i do appreciate that i am very licky in some ways). As for him losing his tempoer like that, it seems so bad becuase in the past we had some HUGE rows (without going into detail we both did dreadful things) and seeing him that angry brings back the horrible things from the past. I have explained this to him but he says i shouldn't get things out of proprtion and shouldn't carry on arguments for so long as it makes him so angry wasting his weekends with arguments and bad feeling, hence all the swaering and shouting.

do you think i should forgive the swearing and shouting and accept that i need to be more understaning and accept it when he tries to stop a row?

Yes, you have said it yourself he is trying to stop the row. He obviously doesn't like doing it any more than you do.

You are both knackered, emotional and adapting to a total change in the priorities in your life. Instead of rowing give him a hug, tell him you love him and BOTH promise that you will try and be more relaxed and nice to each other.

Believe me it does get better, honest, and I can say this as a grand old non rookie of 14 weeks.

At the minute you're both knackered, you're not getting any physical closeness because you are in different rooms and you are making a huge adjustment to the new person in your life.

You need all the sleep you can get at the minute so keep your husband out of the room for the time being, but once dd is sleeping better then try to let him back in, also even if you are not sleeping in the same rooms could you give each other back massages - I think you said he gives you massages ?

Another tip is try not to count who does the most feeds, nappy changes etc, I promise you that you will win, but try to look at the bigger picture and thank him for going to work and for what he does. I know it sounds like caving in but he is much more likely to appreciate your effort if you do.

One final thing when I tried to tell my husband how to do things he said he would listen to me more readily if I said "I do xxxx which seems to work well but do whatever you think best" rather than telling him how the schedule went.

hi chopstick! I think everyone has horrible rows and says things they don't mean or regret. I'm not trying to belittle how you feel either, because things can get out of all proportion when you are tired and emotional as both you and your husband are right now with your little one. All I would say is try to keep things in perspective, try to appreciate each other's efforts and don't make any rash decisions just now. Best of luck xxx

And for the record, I have 3 kids ages 10, 8 and 4 and have been married since time began well 18 years anyway!!!!