Money, equality, feeling shit about it

[howmuchdidyouspendonthattelly]

Have n/c for this. Need to offload.

DS1 just accidentally broke the new tv. We've only had it a few weeks. The previous one was perfectly good, but DH does like his tech, and decided to upgrade to something better. I stayed out of the purchasing decision - not interested in things like this, so I let him get on with it, as I do with all tech decisions in the house.

He's just revealed that the tv actually cost £1400. I had no idea. He spent his work bonus on it. And it's looking like it may not be covered on the insurance.

I'm sitting here feeling gutted because I've been worrying about our finances for months now. Worrying about covering the standing orders that come out of my account (music lessons for the children, repayment of large overpayment of child tax credits from years back, my phone contract, about a third of the food budget, and all my clothes and personal expenses). I can't afford to get my teeth looked at, or my glasses replaced, even though my eyesight has changed and I'm struggling with my old glasses. I'm a SAHM and I don't turn the heating on all day no matter how cold it gets, despite being hypothyroid and very anaemic, so always cold and tired. I buy my clothes from charity shops, get my hair done twice a year (£35 quid), and rarely go out. The house is a shit heap - we're still sleeping on a broken old bed I bought off ebay years ago, have no curtains in our bedroom, nowhere to hang our clothes apart from one old ikea wardrobe and a hanging rail. DH in the mean time has bought a MacBook, the TV, and has spent about £900 on shoes in the past 2 years.

We've somehow fallen into a pattern of dysfunctional spending and I don't know how to deal with it. I earn 12K a year working part-time and he earns 65K. I know the answer is for me to work more so I have more money that I control, but I just feel I can't. My health isn't great - I'm very, very tired all the time and can't get to the bottom of what's wrong, despite repeated doctor visits. I find my part-time work, my 3 dc's (one of who has autism), the house and the dog about as much as I can cope with. I just feel I couldn't cope with working any more than I am now.

I've never, ever commented on DH's spending so much money on tech, shoes and clothes because I feel guilty about working part-time, when he has a full-time, challenging management job that he doesn't massively enjoy. I've always felt that not having material things for myself is a price I'm willing to pay not to feel pressured to work any more than I am at present. But now I've lost my child benefit payment and my work is unreliable (I'm self employed, and have lost a few important contracts this year. Next year I'm likely to earn less than I am now) I'm constantly worrying about paying my bills, and it seems to me all wrong that I should be fretting about covering my standing orders for the kids music lessons, while he is spending £400 on a pair of shoes.

I feel so disempowered by the whole situation. I'm frightened to raise the subject with DH because I'm worried he's going to come out with something which will make me resent him. Or put me under pressure to work more, which I feel I can't do. :-(

For me, that 'one thing' totally wipes out what, if any, good you perceive he brings to the relationship...

When you say he is respectful what do you mean exactly OP?

It's both your money. I can't believe you are living like this.

There have been so many threads about this recently and it really makes me furious. I don't mean at you OP, I mean at your situation.
The answer is not for you to work more, you are supposed to be a partnership and therefore all money is shared money. That you have no money to spend and he ponces off buying fancy equipment every five minutes is ludicrous. You do just as much work for the family as he does, it's just not all your work (ie child care etc) brings in money. That doesn't mean you contribute less because not all contributions have to be financial. So really there is no 'what he can afford' and 'what you can afford' because it's all the same isn't it?
I rarely throw out an ltb but this is not a relationship situation I would accept.
But if this is something you have just slipped into, it could be as much your fault as his and hopefully you have the kind of relationship where you can just discuss it, get a joint bank account which he contributes most to because he earns more, but which you both spend quality from, albeit with a discussion first.
If he isn't willing to have an equal setup like this then he clearly thinks nothing of your contribution, of you or of your part in his life and he is financially controlling and abusing you.

We always discuss large purchases and sometimes small ones. I think you should have to look at your household finances again and come to a different arrangement as this one isn't working for you. If he bought it out of his bonus it was a bit selfish not discussing it with you. If you earn £12K a year then I wouldn't class you as an SAHM. You are contributing financially to the houseold with your earnings. Household bills are joint bills, they are not your bills. Same with music lessons and any other expenses for the house and your children.

You must make some kind of expenses and earnings sheet. All the expenses and who is responsible. And all the earnings. Have you added up all the things you are responsible for paying and deducted them from your earnings. That's where I would start before I confronted him. What are your monthly outgoings. He might earn a seemingly large salary but the bulk of the household bills are coming out of that.

Have you looked a Money Saving Expert website for ways to reduce your outgoings and maximise your income. You and your DP could look at MSE's Family Money Help web pages as a way of kick starting a proper discussion about finances.

How old are your kids? If they are young you could leave the music lessons for a few years. As long as they work hard when they restart there is no reason why they would be behind.

"It is worrying that you think a discussion about income and expenditure is going to end up with him telling you to go out and work more."

I think the expectation that both partners in a marriage work enough to each bring in a decent income once the children are in full time education is a pretty common one among people in this country.

It certainly is on mumsnet.

When I say 'I'm frightened' I don't mean that I'm frightened he will be aggressive or verbally abusive. I'm frightened he's going to say he thinks I need to work more, and I just feel like I CAN'T do more than I do now.

I left my previous professional job 10 years ago. At 48, and having been out of the workplace for a decade, I don't rate my chances of getting a reasonable job, even if I could cope with working longer house. My current work is very enjoyable and well-paid, but I'm self-employed and it's the sort of work which is not feasible to do full-time. So earning more money poses all sorts of problems for me. Lack of confidence, lack of energy, lack of opportunity.

Have you posted about this before? Under another name?

Between you, you are earning about 78 k. Why are you living like you are? Why isn't he concerned that you are ill and cold with no heating? Looking after 3 kids and working 2 days a week is what you should be doing, not do more to up the income. He needs to share his around equally. Why are you paying for the music lessons?

He needs to grow up and look after his family IMO. What a tosses! Surely he has eyes and can see what is happening!

"If they are young you could leave the music lessons for a few years."

No - we really can't. Most of the money goes on piano lessons for ds1, who is gifted at music. I'm hoping this will give him a shot at a state specialist music school for secondary next year. We live in a very poor area and the secondary schools are rough here. We are not eligible for bursaries to private schools, or church schools. There are several very good state schools he can try for which are massively oversubscribed, but which have a special stream of entry for music. He needs to keep going with this.

If he wasn't talented at music I wouldn't keep going with it - it's such hard work for him and for us, but he's really good and I'm so proud of him.

I think I'm going to bite the bullet and tell DH we need to do things differently.

I'm going to suggest that my salary is paid into the joint account and all the bills should be paid out of it. Then we keep tabs on our spending together.

His response to that will be revealing. Anything less than of course, lets work out what is left over and split it 50/50 after taking into account everything including the children's expenses is imo financial abuse. Especially if he is happy for you to have virtually nothing when he can spend what he wants.

And make a dentist's appointment. I bet he visits the dentist, doesn't he? It makes me mad that he can go and know that you can't afford to go. And if he doesn't know, he should; where does he think you'd get the money from?

Glad you're going to do things differently.

"I'm frightened he's going to say he thinks I need to work more, and I just feel like I CAN'T do more than I do now."

If he was a reasonable and kind man, the fact that you felt like that would be the end of the discussion.

You are working as much as you feel able and you are unwell.

He's your husband, under those circumstances he should care about you enough to accept the (considerable) contribution you are making, be glad for the flexibility your work gives to your family, and be happy to share his earnings with you.

He sounds unreasonable but your family income is not a lot in London so maybe you should think about working some more hours, not necessarily full-time but just more hours. How did the decision come about for you to leave a full-time professional role? Was it something he was happy with? What's he like with housework and childcare at the weekends? Do you ever get a break?

I also think you need to get the best treatment for your medical problems, both hypothyroidism and anaemia can be dealt with very effectively; staying in a cold house with just housework to do five days a week would make anyone feel fed up.

The income is enough for him to wear £400 shoes to walk the streets of London.

Ladylapsang-ha ha ha ha ha.

At the moment there is no clarity. It may be that he is a saving a lot of his income. He may not realise the sacrifices you are making. You need to discuss a joint account and a monthly spreadsheet. This will make both of you accountable and ensure sensible purchasing. Perhaps all of your income goes into one account and you both receive £500 a month back into privat e accounts for personal spending. You need to decide which purchases are necessary ( some people may argue hair, others may say this should be luxury and from personal private spending money). Once you have the same definitions it will be easier to agree.

Is it possible you could broach this discussion by saying you wanted to make some savings on the utilities bill? To do so means fixing the house, which you can't afford. Therefore, could he and you get your income and outgoings on that spreadsheet that Sleepyhoglet described and see if you can get it done.

It would be presented as a project rather than a general complaint but you'd still get to have a proper look at all the finances.

Don't pay all your income into a joint account. Decide a monthly amount for personal expenses that should be the same for each of you, then pay the rest into the joint account.

I wouldn't recommend you put all your salary Into a joint account unless as another has recommended you both get an equal amount reimbursed back into your own accounts for personal spending. But do agree that all outgoings must come out of the joint account, they are a shared responsibility. Another approach could be that As you earn a fifth of his earnings you could contribute a fifth of what he does too the shared account? E.g. if the costs he is currently covering is 2k per month you contribute 400 per month. And each of you can do what you want with what is left over from you own earnings.

Why is the money not shared? I'm sorry but your husband clearly does not care about you if he won't share his money to the extent that you can't even afford the dentist but he can spend thousands on a tv! You need to have a serious talk. You would be better off on your own because you would get cb and tax credits.
I'm shocked at how often I hear stories like this.
He can buy a tv for 100 quid. You need one account where you pool your money and then bills, rent and savings go out and then the rest is shared between you!

Twattergy, so she should have 1/5 of personal spending power of her husband? When she gave up a career to look after the children?

Twattergy, so she should have 1/5 of personal spending power of her husband? When she gave up a career to look after the children?

The part about you having to work more... If you were both scrimping and saving, both making sacrifices and both finding it hard to meet all the expenses then there may be a case for you working more hours. But as it appears to be that there is adequate money coming into the house but (leaving all blame aside) your spending between you is not under control, then the answer is to look at the budget. Presumably you worked out at some point that you could manage on 1.5 wages?

OP does your husband know that you can't afford the dentist & you need new glasses?

I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt that he is just monumentally self-absorbed and failed to notice that you are struggling, but to be honest you sound like a trafficked slave...