Money, equality, feeling shit about it

[howmuchdidyouspendonthattelly]

Have n/c for this. Need to offload.

DS1 just accidentally broke the new tv. We've only had it a few weeks. The previous one was perfectly good, but DH does like his tech, and decided to upgrade to something better. I stayed out of the purchasing decision - not interested in things like this, so I let him get on with it, as I do with all tech decisions in the house.

He's just revealed that the tv actually cost £1400. I had no idea. He spent his work bonus on it. And it's looking like it may not be covered on the insurance.

I'm sitting here feeling gutted because I've been worrying about our finances for months now. Worrying about covering the standing orders that come out of my account (music lessons for the children, repayment of large overpayment of child tax credits from years back, my phone contract, about a third of the food budget, and all my clothes and personal expenses). I can't afford to get my teeth looked at, or my glasses replaced, even though my eyesight has changed and I'm struggling with my old glasses. I'm a SAHM and I don't turn the heating on all day no matter how cold it gets, despite being hypothyroid and very anaemic, so always cold and tired. I buy my clothes from charity shops, get my hair done twice a year (£35 quid), and rarely go out. The house is a shit heap - we're still sleeping on a broken old bed I bought off ebay years ago, have no curtains in our bedroom, nowhere to hang our clothes apart from one old ikea wardrobe and a hanging rail. DH in the mean time has bought a MacBook, the TV, and has spent about £900 on shoes in the past 2 years.

We've somehow fallen into a pattern of dysfunctional spending and I don't know how to deal with it. I earn 12K a year working part-time and he earns 65K. I know the answer is for me to work more so I have more money that I control, but I just feel I can't. My health isn't great - I'm very, very tired all the time and can't get to the bottom of what's wrong, despite repeated doctor visits. I find my part-time work, my 3 dc's (one of who has autism), the house and the dog about as much as I can cope with. I just feel I couldn't cope with working any more than I am now.

I've never, ever commented on DH's spending so much money on tech, shoes and clothes because I feel guilty about working part-time, when he has a full-time, challenging management job that he doesn't massively enjoy. I've always felt that not having material things for myself is a price I'm willing to pay not to feel pressured to work any more than I am at present. But now I've lost my child benefit payment and my work is unreliable (I'm self employed, and have lost a few important contracts this year. Next year I'm likely to earn less than I am now) I'm constantly worrying about paying my bills, and it seems to me all wrong that I should be fretting about covering my standing orders for the kids music lessons, while he is spending £400 on a pair of shoes.

I feel so disempowered by the whole situation. I'm frightened to raise the subject with DH because I'm worried he's going to come out with something which will make me resent him. Or put me under pressure to work more, which I feel I can't do. :-(

[Blu]

Honestly, I cannot think of one reason why you should feel 'morally obliged' to take on more paid work. And as I say, that is from the perspective of someone who works f/t and I earn more than my DP.

Why do you undervalue your contribution to the household so mumch? How would your children manage if you went to work f/t? How would your DH's job pan out if he had to cover half the school hols and all the children's days off sick, and Dr and other appointments? If he had to do half the cooking and cleaning etc?

Have a calm discussion with him, and together explore all the options - show him how your budget is panning out, esp now that you seem to be not spending the CB. Does he know you are saving thee CB?

Could he work 4 days a week to enable you to 'up' your working week? (it's worth suggesting - just to get him to imagine a differnt way and what it would feel like to him if he had a different work-life-money balance).

Show him how much paid childcare would be needed if you went back to work f/t.

To be honest it sounds as if you could both do with taking a bit more interest in each others' responsibilities within the family. Let hims see how your budget is, and you take an interest in major household purchases - because even a 'normal' flat screen TV is going to be quite expensive - take an interest in the pros and cons of big techno purchases!

Don't let yourself fade into the background!

Good luck!

[perfectstorm]

Please read Blu's post really, really carefully. It sets out the ridiculousness of expecting you to work fulltime with an autistic child and almost all family responsibilities - you're doing well working part-time, frankly. And the solution is fair, too, I think.

This is deeply wrong. I hope he surprises you and is appalled you are in this position, and works with you to change it as quickly as possible.

[BitterOldOtter]

I think the "financial abuse" comments might be jumping thr gun a bit in respect of a relationship that the OP says is otherwise good and where:

"He pays for the mortgage, insurance, food, electric, gas, council tax, most of the kids clothes, school shoes."

He is covering almost all the major household expenses. I agree with other people who have said his salary won't go that far in London if he is the main esrner. How frequently does he spend £400 on shoes?! I have friends on similar salaries and without family sized outgoings who woild still struggle to spend like that regularly!

Completely agree that the money for personal spends should be as equal as possible. Perhaps discussing how 'bonus' money is used as well. Maybe he genuinely just hssnt thought of costs like hairdresser/dentist etc and once you've sat down and pointed out these additional things you can rebudget together.

[Twinklestein]

I'm afraid of feeling morally obliged into going back to work full time when I feel I can't cope with it.

That doesn't make sense. Why would you be 'afraid' of being 'obliged' to work when you're not well? What is moral about that? Would your husband really pressure you to work more hours than you can cope with?

[crazyhead]

At the end of the day, now is the time to talk about it. You aren't having to approach him to tell him about massive debts, just about things being really unfair and stressful. I get you are afraid, but you need to do this or you'll seriously damage your marriage.

The situation is perfectly manageable at the moment, but you have to have a conversation that presents everything together - not just money, but the time that is needed to be there for your autistic child and other children, sort the house out - everything.

If he wants to come up with alternative models of you working more, they also have to include him taking more responsibility for those other areas in your shared lives. In some cases (particularly with three kids, one with special needs) it really is most financially efficient and realistic to have one high earner and one part time person - you may already be following the most viable option for your family. However basically, at this stage you need to look at a range of possibilities - if his tech spending is based on some 'well I have to do a management job' resentment, he needs to work out for himself whether he would seriously want to change places with you and really is hard done by. If at all possible, you need to work together to tackle your health problems too.

My OH earns much more than me but we see our money and time as entirely shared, have no financial separation (as in joint bank accounts) and agreed 'treat' levels which are low at the moment after moving house! He left an artistic career to go into a well paid finance job so I suppose he 'could' resent me in the sort of ways you mention, but he wouldn't dream of it! After all, I've gone through pregnancy, birth and maternity leave to give him his lovely children (hardly likely to raise salary for any woman) and we're a team.

I think you need to get back to that attitude, personally xx

[2468Motorway]

All your expenses should be joint. You should be able to buy clothes and shoes and go to the dentist and opticians.

However it might be that he is crap with money and no idea how much things cost (music lessons, food, bills etc.). I don't know your outgoings, mortgage etc. Perhaps you both need to sit down and look at all your outgoings and see if he realises where all the money is going.

[veryberrybug]

OP i totally KWYM about it creeping up on you, i'm in a not entirely dissimilar situation & DP is not abusive or controlling. it's when things worked out a certain way & it was fine, but then something changed - in your case your salary - & the way of dealing with money just rumbled on the same, even though it no longer suited. it's not until you get to crunch point (& get a bit of bolstering fe mumsnetters!) that push comes to shove: you realise you must do something about it. communication is most definitely the key: if he's fine in other respects then you must make sure you tell him loud&clear that you feel pushed to your limit & physically & mentally could not cope with working more paid hours with all the other stuff you have to do. also telling him how unhappy you are with the whole situation. as your DH he would not want to see you pushed beyond your limits to breaking, or extremely unhappy, so it will not be an issue. IKWYM about all the hours the kids are in school, but the time gets filled so don't feel your work is not of value. i can't imagine how many corners F/T working mums have to cut in terms of domestics, food prep etc because there aren't enough hours in my day to do both! i hope you talk to him, explain your feelings, & if he says something which upsets you then let him know, don't sit on it letting it eat you up inside. sometimes DHs can be blind to something that's huge to you (like a flat piece of paper), because they're looking at it from a different angle (paper from the side) all you need to do is turn it so he can see too. good luck, let us know how you go. i'm going to do the spreadsheet thing too.

[howmuchdidyouspendonthattelly]

I'm not afraid of him. I'm afraid of feeling morally obliged into going back to work full time when I feel I can't cope with it.

The children don't want for anything, and he's never tight about meals out etc.

I feel to blame for allowing this situation to develop. It's crept up on me. I've been spending more and more on petrol, food and other things (like everyone else) and now I'm experiencing a drop in income from losing my child benefit (it's still being paid in but most months I'm taking it out and putting it in a savings account so it can be handed back to the tax man at the end of the year). This is the first year I've really felt squeezed for money and worried about paying my bills. I've been managing up to now. I should have made things plainer to him - say to him 'it's wrong for me to be worrying about paying my standing orders for family debts/expenditure while you are spending so much money on luxuries. I don't know why I've let it get this far.

[AnandaTimeIn]

Hasn't he noticed that you can't afford the dentist and glasses and clothes?

Of course he has. He's just taking the piss. Would prefer a £1400 telly, macbook and a myriad pair of expensive shoes than to see his partner and children be taken care of..

It's financial abuse.

OP, time to find your anger and inner bitch! better that than to let him grind you all down, you and DC deserve so much better!

[AnandaTimeIn]

"What is the rest of the relationship like?" Respectful. He's kind, funny, amazing with the children. Patient. Hard working.

I'm frightened to make an issue of it, because he may tell me he expects me to work more and I feel I can't cope with working more than I am. So I've dodged the whole conversation.

These two statements contradict each other...

Is he "respectful, kind, funny, amazing, patient" with you also?

You sound afraid of him. Why are you "dodging the conversation" that this is completely out of balance?

[pantsonbackwards]

Hasn't he noticed that you can't afford the dentist and glasses and clothes?

[Blu]

I am in one of those relationships where both parents work f/t and we share all the household expenditure and all the domestic tasks and childcare down the middle.

We are able to do that because we don't have 3 kids, because we do not have an autistic child, and because we both have jobs we can do flexibly and share the kids-off-school-sick days equally. You are there to do all the before and after school, sick days and holiday child care - that would cost your DH a LOT if you were (between you) engaging childcare. You are enabling him to work! No-one can earn as much when they are working between school runs, so no, I do not think that the obvious answer is for you to work more and have more of 'your' income to spend!

A fair sharing might look like this: You pool both your incomes. You make a budget for all your household and family expenditure. Including teeth and other health costs for all family members. You add on an agreed contribution to savings. Apportion an amount that DH needs for his commute. Then split whatever is over as disposable income to spend as each partner on the marriage chooses.

The system you have at the moment (not that it is a system) disadvantages you beyond the actual cash, too. You are supporting him, with childcare and running the household , to gain promotion, contribute to a company pension scheme, improve his prospects. I bet however hard and impressively you work in your p/t job you are not able to make the same long term investment in your future.

Just lay it all out for him. If he does not agree, suggest you go to counselling about it.

He really should not be treating you like this - or, if he is oblivious and thinks you are doing OK (does he?) you shouldn't be feeling so anxious about talking to him about it!

[Twinklestein]

OP does your husband know that you can't afford the dentist & you need new glasses?

I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt that he is just monumentally self-absorbed and failed to notice that you are struggling, but to be honest you sound like a trafficked slave...

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

The part about you having to work more... If you were both scrimping and saving, both making sacrifices and both finding it hard to meet all the expenses then there may be a case for you working more hours. But as it appears to be that there is adequate money coming into the house but (leaving all blame aside) your spending between you is not under control, then the answer is to look at the budget. Presumably you worked out at some point that you could manage on 1.5 wages?

[ImperialBlether]

Twattergy, so she should have 1/5 of personal spending power of her husband? When she gave up a career to look after the children?

[ImperialBlether]

Twattergy, so she should have 1/5 of personal spending power of her husband? When she gave up a career to look after the children?

[Thants]

Why is the money not shared? I'm sorry but your husband clearly does not care about you if he won't share his money to the extent that you can't even afford the dentist but he can spend thousands on a tv! You need to have a serious talk. You would be better off on your own because you would get cb and tax credits.
I'm shocked at how often I hear stories like this.
He can buy a tv for 100 quid. You need one account where you pool your money and then bills, rent and savings go out and then the rest is shared between you!

[Twattergy]

I wouldn't recommend you put all your salary Into a joint account unless as another has recommended you both get an equal amount reimbursed back into your own accounts for personal spending. But do agree that all outgoings must come out of the joint account, they are a shared responsibility. Another approach could be that As you earn a fifth of his earnings you could contribute a fifth of what he does too the shared account? E.g. if the costs he is currently covering is 2k per month you contribute 400 per month. And each of you can do what you want with what is left over from you own earnings.

[happyhev]

Don't pay all your income into a joint account. Decide a monthly amount for personal expenses that should be the same for each of you, then pay the rest into the joint account.

[sisterofmercy]

Is it possible you could broach this discussion by saying you wanted to make some savings on the utilities bill? To do so means fixing the house, which you can't afford. Therefore, could he and you get your income and outgoings on that spreadsheet that Sleepyhoglet described and see if you can get it done.

It would be presented as a project rather than a general complaint but you'd still get to have a proper look at all the finances.

[Sleepyhoglet]

At the moment there is no clarity. It may be that he is a saving a lot of his income. He may not realise the sacrifices you are making. You need to discuss a joint account and a monthly spreadsheet. This will make both of you accountable and ensure sensible purchasing. Perhaps all of your income goes into one account and you both receive £500 a month back into privat e accounts for personal spending. You need to decide which purchases are necessary ( some people may argue hair, others may say this should be luxury and from personal private spending money). Once you have the same definitions it will be easier to agree.

[Pinupgirl]

Ladylapsang-ha ha ha ha ha.

[JoinYourPlayfellows]

The income is enough for him to wear £400 shoes to walk the streets of London.

[LadyLapsang]

He sounds unreasonable but your family income is not a lot in London so maybe you should think about working some more hours, not necessarily full-time but just more hours. How did the decision come about for you to leave a full-time professional role? Was it something he was happy with? What's he like with housework and childcare at the weekends? Do you ever get a break?

I also think you need to get the best treatment for your medical problems, both hypothyroidism and anaemia can be dealt with very effectively; staying in a cold house with just housework to do five days a week would make anyone feel fed up.

[JoinYourPlayfellows]

"I'm frightened he's going to say he thinks I need to work more, and I just feel like I CAN'T do more than I do now."

If he was a reasonable and kind man, the fact that you felt like that would be the end of the discussion.

You are working as much as you feel able and you are unwell.

He's your husband, under those circumstances he should care about you enough to accept the (considerable) contribution you are making, be glad for the flexibility your work gives to your family, and be happy to share his earnings with you.