How to help my brothers? Why is my Dad being unreasonable?

[MissingTheTwinning]

Hello. I'm struggling at the moment with how best to help my three brothers in the difficult situation they've found themselves in with my dad. Not going to call him DF because.. well, really, there's nothing Darling about him. They all live with him, in a very cramped two-bedroom council house. He's recently moved his brand new fiancee in, and has given them notice that they have until the 13th to find somewhere else to live.

So that's the brief into. There's a lot of back-story and I struggle with knowing what is and isn't relevant (also in everyday conversations!), and I don't want to bore anyone with my life story so I apologise in advance if I seem blunt or haven't given enough information! I don't want to overload you . I like questions.

This week is difficult for us all because the 9th is the two year anniversay of our mum dying. I can't really believe his timing, to be honest.

Practical help that I can offer my brothers is: I have a spare room, and my youngest brother has been thinking about moving up to me since our mum died. That plan may need to go ahead sooner than he was ready for, if they really have no options re: talking sense into him about a more reasonable timescale. That only helps one of them, though. The other two? I feel quite helpless right now. One is jobless, all have very little money available.

If they live in a 2 bed house now, do they all share a room?

How old are they?

I think you do have to let the youngest one in. Bluntly speaking, the only option for the other two might be to present themselves to the council as homeless. IF they have no money then they should qualify for Housing Benefit, but it may only be a small amount (£65 a week in Manchester for under 35s)

At the moment the youngest has the second room, the other two sleep in the living room. It's always been a cramped house, although it's only in the past few months that the eldest moved back in, after his relationship broke down. He's been through a very tough time recently and hasn't been allowed to see his son since the split.
Emotions and tensions are more than likely running high for everyone in such a small space. I know that the best thing for my brothers in the long run is to get away from my dad. I just can't believe how suddenly he's sprung this on them. Out of the blue and with no support to help them work out where to go.
Eldest is 27, middle 24, youngest 22.
Declaring themselves homeless.. they may have to. It's almost ten years since me and my sister had to do that ourselves. Although they aren't 17 year old females so I don't think they'll be given somewhere as quickly as we were

Eldest is 28, not 27, duh! He's had his birthday this year, silly me!

How old everyone?

Sounds very difficult for all concerned. Have your brothers been in touch with the CAB or the JS?

Are your brothers working? Could they find a room in a shared house?

I agree, it's short notice, but to be honest, the reality of 4 adult men squashed into a 2 bedroom house must be hard for everyone. They need to just take a deep breath and look for somewhere else to live. They are all adults and now need to start taking responsibility for themselves.

Sorry, just saw that one is out of work. What about the other two?

If the youngest moved in with you, do you think the other two could bunk up in his old bedroom for a while, so your father could have his living room back.

You need to find out what your Local Housing Allowance rates are for the area that you live in (it should be on your local council's website.)

If they were all willing to share, and had one tenancy agreement between them, they would get the three bedroomed rate. (or two if your little brother doesn't move in). If they have separate tenancies then they will only get the shared room rate. Most private landlords will set the tenancy up to maximise the benefit they can get.

If the eldest is working, it might actually be better to get separate tenancies so the middle one gets the full amount of the shared room rate.

Then you need to look for a property that they can afford. You may be asked to act as guarantor, and you may need to help them out with a deposit. Sometimes there are local schemes (the Manchester one is called Letwise) which will help vulnerable people find suitable tenancies.

Eldest is working, so is Youngest, both minimum wage. I think Middle is on JSA.. depends whether he's been going to the appointments or not. He doesn't have the greatest track record..

Just to clarify, they live outside London, I live about five hours north in a lovely place. Much cheaper to live - I can rent a house(!) for less than they would pay for a small bedroom in a houseshare, where they are now. Youngest has been looking at places. Crazy prices..

My Dad offered to give them the deposit to rent somewhere, the three of them. But from what the youngest told me, he's now changed his mind and taken back that offer. (He got a lump sum from a pension something-or-other a few months back, so for once in his life he's not broke).

He wasn't the best Dad, growing up. Not a nice man to live with. They need to get out. But all five of us, in my opinion, have suffered in life because of the things that happened when we were younger, which he was a big part of. I wouldn't say me or my brothers are confident individuals. Survivors, maybe. They've never had anyone to guide them, no good role models at all. They've all kind of just.. drifted.. and now they're getting a wake-up call. I know they need to get out.. I do think they need a little more time, understanding and support, though.

TBH... men the age of your brothers should have probably been thinking of moving on and being independent before now. Obviously the new fiancee has been something of a catalyst and the notice-period is on the short side but four (soon to be five) adults in one tiny house must be intolerable. I think the housing department would have helped them out long before now if they'd asked and there may still be something to be done there. They are well into the overcrowding category

Something that just bothers me about this, is that my dad would never have had the council house if it weren't for my brothers. (Having a council house is a Big Thing to my Dad)
Many years ago, after my mum stopped coping and started addictions to cope instead.. He was happy for them to be pushed on me and my sister, and then foster care.. until he realised they were his ticket into a council house. Oh, then, suddenly, he turned up to meetings with the social workers!! Before that, it was down to me and my sister, he didn't seem to care.
Now that he's got a new woman, they're suddenly out on their ears!

That was when they were children. They are now adults. Whatever you feel about the situation, your brothers need to start taking responsibility for themselves.

They're all adults... From your op, I thought you were talking about much younger people. How long were they planning to stay, particularly when they have a difficult relationship with your father?

That's awful op.

By the sounds of it they were never equipped in any way to deal with life and independence. It can be hard to suddenly have to do all that when confidence is so low.

ThisIsMummyPig I had the thought about one moving and the other two getting out of the living room, just to buy them some time, maybe until after the New Year, to get themselves sorted. I'm wondering whether I should speak to my Dad. So far I've only spoken to the youngest about all of this.
Also, thank you for the helpful advice, I'll take a look at the local council website and tell my brothers to do the same.

Cogito, my Dad went to the council and asked for a bigger place. They put him on some swapping thing where he has to bid? (I don't know much about it). But from what the youngest said, my dad hasn't bothered to look, let alone bid. It's easier to kick them out!

I don't know if my Dad is going to end up having the big happy family event for his 60th in December in quite the way he planned, at this rate. I don't know if my brothers will want to go

Please don't get me wrong, anyone. I completely agree that they all need to be living independent lives, and should have been years ago. The eldest did, for a while. He isn't happy that he ended up moving back. The youngest has been talking about moving with me for two years, so he knows it too. He's scared, I think. The middle one.. I worry about a lot.

I've been trying to get the courage to book myself with my GP to talk about Aspergers. I see a lot of things in myself. I see those things in my older brother, my twin sister and the middle brother. We've all taken the test that's widely mentioned online (I was curious so sent them a link) and all scored at the far end of the scale (apart from the younger). I do wonder whether this could explain their reluctance to step out into the big wide world. I know I only did because I had to.

But they haven't bothered to look for somewhere else either. The man is at an age where most people are thinking about downsizing because the family has grown up and moved on. He's not handled it particularly well by the sound of it but your DBs - again, grown men - have done nothing at all towards their own future. If this spurs them into action, maybe it's a good thing

I agree Cogito, I think I said something to the youngest, about taking this as the sign that it's time for his life to move on, and to start the next chapter. It might not have been the timescale he was comfortable with.. but moving was never going to be comfortable! It's also on the 13th.. and I have a thing about that date. It's connected, in some imperceptible way... Getting kicked out by your mum on a Friday the 13th makes you remember the date.. Plus I get fascinated with dates.. and numbers.. rambling now...

You're going to have to resist the temptation to fix everything for your DBs here. Point them in the right direction and offer encouragement obviously. But show them a little respect at the same time rather than seeing them as helpless victims. Plenty of people their age can and do manage to set up home and find jobs all the time so it's not necessarily the end of the world.

Sorry op that so much has fallen upon you. You seem very close to your siblings from your post. Tbh I think apart from the youngest adult, you need to let the older two figure this one out for themselves. I really thought you were referring to your teenage brothers, but these are adult men. They are old enough to be responsible for their own lives.

pantsonbackwards - "By the sounds of it they were never equipped in any way to deal with life and independence. It can be hard to suddenly have to do all that when confidence is so low."

You're right, they're not equipped. It reminds me how I felt, and it wasn't easy, although I was much younger. I feel for them.. I just wish someone would guide them and support them. My Dad's tactics are shouting and bullying. He doesn't get violent with them only because they would fight back. He isn't going to give them any help. I feel like I need them to know someone cares - I do!

Sorry.. I just realised something. In the past when it was just my dad and younger two, my dad actually didn't want the youngest to move out, when he had a chance to. The reason? My Dad was broke and needed the rent money, he couldn't actually afford the place without them there, as he wasn't working. Now he's had his pension lump sum and found a lady (who, in my Dad's words, "is loaded!"), he doesn't need them, and doesn't seem to care about burning bridges either

Missing - Are you getting any help and support yourself?

I understand that these are your brothers and you love them. Both my brothers were single into their 30s, and I would have done anything for them. My DH wouldn't, and that's healthy.

If your brothers have jobs they may qualify for Housing Benefit, and possibly Council Tax Support. There is a chance they may be able to get Working Tax Credits. They need to look into all these things now. You can do online calculators.

The one that sometimes signs on and sometimes doesn't needs to get his arse down to the jobcentre in the morning.

I am a Housing Benefit specialist, PM me if you need any more advice.

Cognito and coffee.

Are you missing that these young men are likely to have AS? Are you also missing that they grew up in what sounds like an abusive household with no decent rolemodels?

You're being really harsh to expect them to be as independent as other young men of the same age.

A little understanding of their particular situation and the affects it would have had on them wouldn't go amiss.

They sound a bit vulnerable, and as usual on mn Im sure the response would be more sympathetic if they were female

Op. It sounds like a very tricky situation. I have a sibling with undiagnosed sn, possibly along the same lines, and he found it very hard to find the confidence to be independent. He just couldn't handle the organisation side of it. He is also low functioning, enough to have a menial job but not enough to understand what's involved in organising to live independently.

Its very hard because people expect him to be like other men as you would necessarily know on first meeting him.

One of my parents has similar issues and just doesn't get stuff, the other has mh issues. So none of us ever got equipped to deal with life independently (as my counsellor phrased it). A lot of people don't understand what a difference that can make. We were taught unintentionally that everything is scary and if things are scary you shouldn't do them. We were also made to be very insular and were isolated so none of us learnt any social skills. I see the things i teach my children . . . things which will help them through life with they are learning now at infants school that i was never taught at all.

Unfortunately you can see on this thread that there are quite a lot of people in the world who don't understand there difficulties even when it is explained as clearly as you have explained it.

Oh and my brother also is somewhat obsessed with numbers

Your dad is an arse!

'Likely' isn't a diagnosis of Aspergers. The OP says she scores highly on these tests and yet managed to leave home at 17 and live an independent life.