I am so completely broken by men, can't take any more.

[LittleIllusionMachine]

EVERY significant man in my life has abused me in some way. Despite this, I still held out hope that I might actually meet a decent guy one day.

I found out something today about a guy I've been seeing and it is like the last straw, it has broken me. I think I've lost any kind of hope.

As far as I can see, men lie and cheat. They manipulate you, will say anything to sleep with you. They are only interested in sex. They don't care if you are intelligent or funny, you are just the sum of your body parts. They will beat you and rape you and emotionally abuse you so badly that you don't know which way is up. They want you so beaten down that you accept and are GRATEFUL for any tiny scraps of affection or kindness, however rare. They don't want a partner, they want a slave to beat and abuse.

I have no self esteem left and I finally give up on trying to find a "good one". I don't think they exist anymore.

Agreed.

Drugs of any kind should be a complete no-no. Most people who 'do drugs' have issues - why even go there at all?

I'm surprised that you somehow try to make cocaine acceptable in some way by calling its use 'social'.

@ Keepithidden

Yes really!!

I saw friends who were in relationships that were loving, respectful and enormous fun. I admit to at the time getting a pang of jealousy when I saw them going about their business as their relationships seemed so much more pleasurable and rewarding to what I was experiencing. I knew there were good women out there and certainly did not feel the need to resort to any sweeping 'all women are bitches' judgements. One thing I do agree with what some are advising the OP to do and that is take a break, that is exactly what I did. I did not date for a few years, I did lots of me things, threw myself into playing rugby, found out how to have fun again and generally rebuild my confidence that had been erroded. It also gave me time to analyse my past relationships with an unfuzzy critical mind, to draw conclusions and more importantly learn how to identify red flags and walk away when I recognised them. I have now met a wonderful women whom I am getting married to next year.

Well, you're a greater and more logical person than me CuChullian!

I'm glad things are looking so positive for you now, hopefully OP can see your story and take some comfort in it, if not now then in the future.

I think staying single for a while is a very good move to allow you to heal. Concentrate on your DD and your friendships and you can have a very happy, emotionally fulfilling life anyway. It can take years to come out the other side of a single abusive relationship in some cases, let alone the sort of experiences you've had. You don't owe anyone the opportunity to have a relationship with you. Prioritise yourself and enjoy a quieter but more serene lifestyle for a while. It's very cathartic. Good luck with your recovery.

I've been around a while and seen some of the seedier sides of life. I think people are neither intrinsically good or evil but fairly average. Good people are capable of behaving like complete shits to their partners at the same time they're raising money for charity or helping their best friend through a crisis. Some people have better integrity than others. Those at either end of the scale are easy to spot, but most people fall somewhere in the middle.

A lot of life is luck as well as judgement. Some people have had good lives not because they are more astute but simply because they have had the good fortune to meet nicer people. But judgement has its place and the best way to acquire it is with patience and observation. Always keep people at arm's length until they have demonstrated through time and action that they are worth being let in closer.

Best of luck for a happy future.

OP I may have read another of your posts. Leaving your last partner was a massive step for you. I hope you feel happier in your future. I admire the strength yoy have.

At no point did I feel the need to write off 50% of the world’s population

I did since 2008 and just now had two male visitors from the H/A. I was sweating as I felt so uncomfortable for the first few minutes in their presence. They were lovely and polite and helpful. I just feel uncomfortable around men expecting them to hurt me at any second. I have had therapy and still feel like this but with life experience and testing what I have learned I am getting better. Those testing opportunities are very, very few as I hardly go anywhere due to the ties of having a severely disabled child.

I totally empathise OP x

The thing with social groups is that apart from work-related ones, there is a tendency for people to socialise with people like them. It's already well known that the friends of abusers are often people who are abusive themselves, even though neither one of those abusers may consider themselves or their friend abusive. It's more to do with sharing attitudes and values that provide the context for abuse.

So, if you are a woman who was raised in an abusive family, chances are that your parents' friends and thus social group normalised some of that abuse or at least the setting that allowed it to take place. Step one.

You grow up and meet someone. They slowly isolate you from your friends so that you find your new social group consisting largely of your abusive partner's circle. Again, the attitudes and values normalise relationships in which the woman takes second place, creating the perfect backdrop for abuse.

So for many women it is entirely possible that the majority of men they have met have displayed either abusive tendencies themselves or at best an attitude of tolerance towards it.

For women who simply had the misfortune to meet one abuser but come from a background of healthy family relationships and a social circle that reinforces that, it is a lot easier to recognise that there are lots of good men out there.

OP, of course you are not in any way to blame for the way another adult behaves.

But that doesn't mean you can't make changes in your life to prevent repetitions of abuse.

You can keep your eye out for signs. If he is drunk when you meet him, he's not good enough, even if it's a party. Tell yourself alcoholics are beneath your radar. Same applies to drugs. This could reduce the chance of you falling for a violent man.

First time a man tries to put you in slave mode, you resist. When DH and I were first together I remember making him a gorgeous breakfast in bed on a tray. All he said, when I brought it in, was 'You forgot the vitamins' in a really grumpy voice.

I said, 'So sorry, I'll just get them,' then went off and had a leisurely coffee. After about half an hour I brought in the vitamins and told him I'd leave him forever if he ever spoke to me that way again. He apologised and never has done. But if he'd said, 'Don't be stupid' I'd have left and not returned. Or if he'd done it again, I'd have left and not returned. If, however, I'd done what he asked and let him carry on that way, he'd have got the message that it was OK to treat his DP that way.

I'm not saying if I'd let him, it would have been my fault - it's still his fault, but I do think that there are ways of testing people and sending out clear signs of what you will and won't allow that can help you keep your self esteem and only attract men prepared to help you maintain that esteem. In DH's case, he's sorted out his attitude because it was wrong (and I'm all for people being allowed to make good on their mistakes.) Let yourself feel some of the power. Decide what you won't ever tolerate again. Make men work to earn your respect and affection.

I'd really like to see the ( your) evidence Dahlen that groups attract the same kind of person - ie abused ones.

So my local bridge club, ramblers, Meet Up, gardening club, whatever...is likely to attract abusers?

And where is the evidence that an abuser 'isolates you from your friends'?
Unless they kidnap you then that is rubbish.

I really think we need to be careful of making sweeping statements that have no real foundation and are just 'thinking aloud' by an individual and no more than their opinion.

Lundy Bancroft covers this in his book missbopeep.

People who you play bridge with, go rambling with or attend gardening club with are just people who you play bridge with, go rambling with, or attend gardening club with. Unless you meet them outside those contexts, they are mere acquaintances and have little to no influence over your opinions or actions. Unless you meet up with them regularly you are unlikely to talk about live, love and the universe etc.

People with whom you regularly socialise, chat about relationships, life, love and the universe etc are likely to have much more in common with your way of thinking.

If you are a staunch feminist, for example, you are unlikely to spend much time socialising with someone who believes the rise in women's equality is undermining family stability and the economy.

so is this LB the be all and end all of psychology?

I think your argument - or his- has flaws because people who become our close friends are often met through the very groups I mentioned. or other activities. Drama, art, dancing, yoga, pilates........

How else would you make friends? Work and school/ college/uni.

It's been some time since I last wrote papers for academic consumption. It is not my job to provide chapter and verse in evidence for every thing I post on MN and quite frankly I CBA because MN (while it has an important social role as a side-effect IMO) is supposed to be fun.

I have provided an off-the-top-of-my-head example to back up my opinion because I was asked for it. There are certainly other studies that back up that view. Maybe you would like to research them yourself, or maybe you would prefer to provide links to your own that refute them, but that's up to you.

Going back to the OP, I wonder if she is using the word 'abuse' too lightly?
If she means 'hurt' by men then who hasn't experienced this? I know that some young people ( like the OP) can use 'abuse' when really they mean something rather less traumatic. It has become an over-used word amongst many younger people and in fact one of my DCs uses it when they don't mean what I'd take it to mean and I pick them up on it.

Yes, there are men who tell lies, charm women into bed, only want a shag etc etc. There's nothing knew in this as I learned from about the age of 13 ( not that I went to bed with boys then.)

But just because you 'fall' for their charm or they deceive , or you give in to their overbearing personality, doesn't mean all men are like that.

Bit defensive Dahlen. Who cares about your work record? Very few of the many of the posts in Relationships are about 'fun' even if that's how you see them and want to spend your time amusing yourself

Not taking sides here missbopeep and certainly can't offer you a research paper or statistics but I can state from personal experiences that abusers do isolate their partners from friends, and often from family. It is an insidious process, and one which the victim often passively co-operates with in the beginning.
By the time things reach a desperate state, victims can literally have nowhere to turn.
This behaviour is a very common pattern. Kidnap doesn't come into it.

I have no idea about abusers forming groups, but I can say that abuse survivors often discover that people they have become close to as friends are also survivors of abuse (more than one might expect in a random sample) ......so we obviously give out some kind of vibe.

I'm finding your posts pretty distressing to be honest bopeep.

I clearly stated that I have been physically, emotionally and sexually abused and you question this? Really?!

Yes, an abuser isolates you from your friends, absolutely. It is very subtle and you don't realise that it's happening until it's too late. They either create such a fuss when you want to spend time with anyone other than them that it doesn't seem worth it to see them very often, or when your friends/family express doubts about the relationship he convinces you that they hate him which makes things awkward, he generally makes an atmosphere when certain people are around, or a million other ways.

OP, it's not you, it's them, but I definitely think there's something, almost like a wrong setting in our brains if we experience or witness abusive relationship dynamics early on, either from our parents' relationship(s) or from one of our own first relationships. After absorbing this as a "norm" then it changes how we view relationships. We tend to be attracted to men who have a certain way of being because it feels familiar to us and we have also managed to fuse love and/or sexual attraction with some attributes which are present in abusive mindsets. So while the relationship is in its early days, these attributes would be present. To somebody with a healthy relationship model these would be coming up as red flags and/or making them feel uncomfortable (which will either lead to the end of the relationship, or they will be ignored hoping that they will go away) - but if you have a damaged relationship model, then these just seem normal or familiar, perhaps even signs that he really cares about you/finds you very attractive.

Because there is no overt abuse in the early days of a relationship it can feel such a relief compared to the way the last one felt towards the end, perhaps how you have come to think of the whole relationship. So when it starts to go wrong again you are understandably confused and upset because it seemed like this one was different finally.

Also because of the multiple abusive relationships/early relationship training, you will find yourself reacting in ways that someone with a healthy relationship template wouldn't to ordinary things, and a man with a healthy relationship template will see this as a sign something isn't quite right and usually end the relationship rather than trying to "fix you" - in fact fixing someone is a rather broken relationship dynamic.

The good news is that you CAN change this programming and you are still young. Time on your own is hugely important to this process, as is therapy - the Freedom Programme really is fantastic and can help and won't lead you straight into a relationship again. Other than this specialised counselling for sexual or relationship abuse would help too.

Good luck - it's so worth it when you're through.

Thank you. I do agree with you and am trying to change MY behaviour (hence why no man has come close in the past 18 months- I end things at the first sign of trouble). I will definitely look into the freedom programme.

Sorry OP- :( didn't mean to come across that way- I missed you saying you had been sexually abused-if you mean the rape.
I only queried it because I have a DC exactly your age and they and their mates sometimes use the word 'abused' lightly when it's not what they mean. I take issue with them on that because real abuse is serious of course. Good luck with finding help and support in your life.

Just as long as you know it's not your fault, LIM, nobody would choose abuse and you never chose how these relationships ended up. Just a tiny bit of rewiring this board on mumsnet works wonders, probably alongside all of the other stuff! Lundy Bancroft is fantastic too - you'll probably find a few familiar characters in those pages.

Also read this - should be required reading for all girls on the eve of their first date!

We tend to be attracted to men who have a certain way of being because it feels familiar to us and we have also managed to fuse love and/or sexual attraction with some attributes which are present in abusive mindsets. So while the relationship is in its early days, these attributes would be present. To somebody with a healthy relationship model these would be coming up as red flags and/or making them feel uncomfortable (which will either lead to the end of the relationship, or they will be ignored hoping that they will go away) - but if you have a damaged relationship model, then these just seem normal or familiar, perhaps even signs that he really cares about you/finds you very attractive

YY and YY again!! and c&p'd because the more people who understand why it happens the better. Yoni - this is one of the best 'simple' explanations that I have seen.

None of this is your fault LIM - and you have already taken the most critical step in recognising that there is a pattern and you are not going to let it repeat again!!!!
Massive massive step.
From here on in its all about healing and discovering the power of having self esteem

I am sorry OP that you have had such terrible experiences, it really is incredibly bad luck. None of the men I know are anything like you describe.

"...men lie and cheat. They manipulate you, will say anything to sleep with you. They are only interested in sex. They don't care if you are intelligent or funny, you are just the sum of your body parts. They will beat you and rape you and emotionally abuse you so badly that you don't know which way is up"

This is without doubt very much the exception when it comes to men, nothing like the vast majority.

OP, I think that you are doing the right thing. You have years ahead of you. Perhaps one day you will meet someone who isn't a shit, but maybe you won't. As long as you're happy as you are, why change it?

Wishing you the very best, and a good life.