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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Could EA be a result of DH's depression

28 replies

Confusedandfeelingalone · 01/10/2013 14:32

Long-time lurker needing advice as to how to handle DH's EA-sorry that it is so long. DH has been depressed for the last 4 years after nearly dying in a road accident but he would never seek any help. DH started EA with former colleague in March but made no real attempt to hide change in behaviour apart from deleting texts. Lots of emails telling her how wonderful she was and how she was the only one who understood him etc. All came to a head in June when I confronted him and he said he wanted to leave. He agreed to wait until after DS's exams and in that time he did keep changing his mind about trying again with me although he was still in daily contact with OW. He left for 10 days in July but I asked him to reconsider for sake of 3 DC who would be devastated. He came back and he wants to try again but doesn't want to talk about EA & says he doesn't know if he loves me. Went to GP's and is on AD's though they don't seem to be having much effect. After several false starts has been NC with OW for last month despite her best efforts. Feeling like all the effort is coming from me at the moment but don't want to give up if marriage can be saved.Am I wasting my time ?

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 01/10/2013 14:49

They may be linked or it could be a pure coincidence. However, if there was no depression in the picture you probably wouldn't keep going back for more punishment. 'I don't know if I love you' is a such a cruel thing to say. If you feel all the effort is one-sided it could be appropriate to go for a separation. It wouldn't be 'giving up' but it would give you chance to think about what you want

Confusedandfeelingalone · 01/10/2013 15:00

Thanks for the reply Cogito. I don't want to give up-we'll have been married 25 years in December but I can't take much more hurt. It feels like my pain is not important to him but he expects me to be supportive of him as he works on his depression. Maybe I am just feeling sorry for myself today (got a bad cold) but I feel like I'm supposed to fix everything for him.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 01/10/2013 15:07

He never sought help, you say, so that means you've spent 4 years being supportive & acting as an untrained therapist until what sounds like relatively recently when he's seen a GP and started on medication. To add insult to injury, he then tells someone else that they're the only person he can talk to and makes plans to leave. That's not feeling sorry for yourself, he's bloody ungrateful

Confusedandfeelingalone · 01/10/2013 15:36

Thanks for the support. Before his accident I would have said DH was the kindest most loving person I know but since then it feels like the depression hasn't left room for him to worry about anyone else. During the EA he was like a teenager-saying he wanted to separate but having given no thought to the practicalities of running two households etc. He loves the DC but even with them he is quite detached. Having got him to finally seek treatment I want our marriage to work but I'm just exhausted by the stress of the last few months

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 01/10/2013 15:44

You're allowed to say you're exhausted or that you don't like him very much, or that you're making all the effort. Do you feel you have to hold back because he's ill at all? Do you feel others would judge you as heartless if you said you'd had enough? Are you getting any emotional support either from friends/family or professionals?

Loopytiles · 01/10/2013 16:18

Depression doesn't give people the right to behave like selfish dicks and hurt those who love them. He has refused to seek treatment for a very long time, then by having an affair. And yet feels entitled to demand that you brush things under the carpet and continue giving him extensive "support".

The standard advice on here after affairs is to ask him to leave, and stew, while you consider whether you want anything more to do with him. Show him what reality without you is like.

At the moment he knows he can treat you badly and continue with OW and you will not leave or kick him out.

Loopytiles · 01/10/2013 16:20

You can't save your marriage on your own. The DC would be OK if he left. Not giving them a good example of relationships by sticking with him despite terrible treatment.

Jan45 · 01/10/2013 16:25

It's amazing, all these depressed men that can't help their wives, can't cope with their kids but hey, they can cope with a bloody affair with someone else! Sorry, I know your OH has been through a lot but so have you, with him, you sound lovely and fully supportive and you are getting nothing back, nothing.

Maybe time you did give up as it sounds like he did ages ago. Time will tell but I think all the signs are there that he's just not really into saving it, despite his depression.

Confusedandfeelingalone · 01/10/2013 17:08

Thanks for the replies. I don't want to post on here asking for advice and then ignore it but I don't think things are completely without hope. He has gone NC with OW and finally got medical help which does show he's trying, doesn't it? I come from a strong catholic family though I don't practise now and I think guilt is my middle name. It would be very hard for me to ask him to leave while he is dealing with depression as I would feel I had abandoned him when he needed me. If anyone has got through a EA and come out the other side I would really value some hope that it is possible

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Jan45 · 01/10/2013 17:23

I think what you might want to consider is supporting him but having time apart too so you can actually decide what it is that you want, it seems to be all about him, what about the effect his behaviour has had on you, you're not made of stone. If you don't want to ask him to leave then maybe you need to start carving out a more interesting life for yourself, ie, go out, meet friends etc, instead of just being there for him all the time.

Confusedandfeelingalone · 01/10/2013 17:42

Thanks Jan. I do want to spend some time rediscovering what I want /need- like lots of mums I am probably guilty of putting me last while the DCs are growing up. I need to be sure that if we do separate I can cope on my own- a very scary prospect after nearly 30 years together.

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Charbon · 01/10/2013 23:22

In answer to the question in your thread, there is a correlation between depressive illnesses and infidelity. Depression is a significant risk factor in terms of whether an affair will happen. People who are experiencing a form of deadness are especially vulnerable to the 'alive' feelings an affair induces, because it mimics a chemical high.

But much bigger risk factors are selfishness, inability to take personal responsibility, low investment in existing relationship and a history of taking more than giving.

I have yet to come across an affair that is solely caused by depression and I have encountered a significant number of people who - although depressed - have not had an affair.

So in my opinion this takes you no further forward. What you're telling us that for 4 years, you were living with a man whose behaviour was hugely difficult to live with, but who took no responsibility for it at all. He then went on to have an affair, leave you, came back only when you begged and now says he's unsure of his feelings for you and won't discuss his betrayal.

If you carry on accepting this situation, you will be a prime candidate for a mental health crisis and it's obvious that unlike the support you gave him, he will not catch you when you fall.

You say that two things show you he's trying; taking belated responsibility for his own health and not continuing his affair.

Are you aware of how low those standards are?

What prevents you from setting far higher standards than that, as a condition of you staying in this marriage?

Are you really prepared to try again with someone who isn't sure he loves you and who refuses to talk about an event that destroyed your marriage and your feelings of wellbeing and safety?

My strongest advice to you is to ask him to leave while you consider your options. He needs to face loss before you can properly re-evaluate this marriage.

Confusedandfeelingalone · 02/10/2013 08:13

Thanks for the advice Charbon even if it not what I wanted to hear!. I know you are right but tbh what is stopping me is fear. Not so much of being a single parent though that would be tough but fear that he wouldn't feel loss. What would that tell me about how much he values our long marriage and values me. The hardest thing for me about his EA has been not being able to trust my memories of our life together. We have had what I thought were some really good times (along with the not so good) but now I don't know how to remember the past given some of the things he said when he wanted to leave. The OW would take him with open arms I think given her continuing demands that he doesn't abandon her and I suspect he would go to her as the easy option rather than thinking what he really wanted. I know none of this is a reason to stay together but my self esteem is shot at the moment.

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Meerka · 02/10/2013 09:50

in this case I'm with Charbon, really am.

it went on for a long time when he was not interested in treatment and he seems to have behaved like a selfish man and without commitment to you. He doesn't seem to have done very much at all to actually really care about -you-.

I personally believe that if you are brought face to face with your own mortality, sometimes it's not so much depression as follows as having to take stock of your own life. Sometimes people's real characters only come out after a bolt out of the blue like that; or they change. It sounds to me like just maybe your husband was a nice and decent guy before, but faced with this very hard thing, his own mortality, he's developed into someone else - and he's not treating the people around him, you and his kids, very well at all. I'm not at all convinced it's due to the depression.

I think you deserve much better than the situation you're in and much as it hurts, it would be wise to consider cutting him loose at least for now. YOu sound lovely, I hope you find the right way forward for you.

(Btw, there is someone else on these boards who really sounds like the EA is wholly depression-related but that is a very different circumstance; much more severe depression, veyr heavy duty meds and he's trying 100% to rebuild the hurt and damage he caused his wife).

Dahlen · 02/10/2013 09:59

Could you try a different perspective? I understand the fear of devaluing your past if you accept it's over, but could you instead focus the fear as wasting the rest of life with someone who doesn't care for you, much less deserve you? Refusing to accept that would be the first step towards restoring your battered self-esteem. It's amazing how much your level of respect is boosted when you start being proactive instead of waiting for more crap to happen to you.

Good luck. Flowers

Charbon · 02/10/2013 11:25

You don't have to view your past in any other light than how it really was.

My really firm advice to you is to trust your own memory (aided by your own mementoes) much more than that of someone whose brain is currently addled by chemical lust and infatuation.

We tend to think of the 'being in love' phase as a positive thing and for the person experiencing it, it is - for the most part. But even the most hardened romantic who is addicted to this state and constantly tries to recreate it will admit that it intrudes on logic, rationality and seeing life as it really is - or was in the past.

If I were presented with a life or death situation where I had to trust someone's memory of events, I'd pick the person who isn't in the throes of an intense infatuation. This is because I've seen so much disonnance between couples where one has a very sharp memory and is recalling love letters sent, weekends away, surprise parties organised and most tellingly, the everyday acts of someone who loves his/her partner - while the other is claiming that love flew out of the window at some point before the OW/OM's face appeared through the panes.

Letting go of this man doesn't rob you of your past therefore. Don't let it be contaminated by someone who has a need to re-write it to justify his current and past actions. A very good project for you in the future (it will be too painful right now) is to sit down with diaries, calendars, photos and mementoes and trust yourself. You are more likely to remember the good and the bad, because you have no need to polarise things and describe life as all good or all bad.

My sense is that your husband is still in touch with the other woman. It is the main cause of ambivalence by the infidelitous partner after an affair.

If your husband goes to her, having managed to manipulate you into being the one to end the relationship, you're right he will probably not feel an immediate sense of loss. That's not to say he won't in time, but usually by then it is too late.

But an important issue in triangles is that the relationships prop eachother up, at least for a time. The person at the top of the triangle is getting his needs met by two people and is usually experiencing a surfeit. When we have a surfeit of something, we have little motivation to choose one provider over another or to risk ceding all our needs to one person who on her own might not meet them at that point. Bear in mind too that the one at the top is being hugely selfish and thinks about his own needs first.

Only the withdrawal of one of the triangle and the loss of that person's contribution causes the person experiencing the surfeit to evaluate what's left. Since new relationships usually have a honeymoon period of up to 2 years, that evaluation might be some way off. Conversely, many affairs burn out spectacularly quickly once out of the bubble of illicitness and secrecy, when a real life of bills and hurt children intrude.

However long it takes though, you will be distanced from it for the same period and especially if you use that time profitably to heal and get back on your feet, your life will be much better than this hinterland of crushing low esteem, living with a person who doesn't love fully and feeling exhausted by your fruitless efforts to make him choose you in an active, wholehearted way.

Have courage and be strong. I have never known a woman get to happiness through the path you are choosing. I have known many who got to happiness by standing up for what they are worth and not compromising their standards.

Confusedandfeelingalone · 02/10/2013 13:37

Thank you all for your thoughts and advice. I am listening and taking it on board and I know that I need to work on setting and keeping to my boundaries.

Meerka: I do understand what you are saying. After his accident life had to revolve around him and his recovery for both me and him and I suspect he got used to being the centre of my attention. As he recovered the DC, work, real life etc reduced that and I suspect the EA gave him that attention from the OW. It is deeply selfish of him but I don't know how I would react in the same situation.

Dahlen: your comment was a bit of a wake up call. I do need to work on my self esteem and fear of the future. I am thinking what I can do practically eg learning DIY that would help me whatever happens.

Charbon: Hard words to hear but I will think about them a lot over the next few days. I really believe he is not in contact with the OW from the texts she has sent him since he went NC. It could all be a plot to confuse me but tbh their deceit so far has been fairly simple to spot. I do believe though that he still thinks about her a lot and that is the reason he is detached from me. He seems to be being to see that they may not be star crossed lovers destined for each other after all but I suppose his feelings for her will not go away completely

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tessa6 · 02/10/2013 13:40

I'm sorry you're going through this. I would listen to charbon. You are right that his feelings for her will lead to a period of grieving but he should be focusing on you, you are the wronged one/ if that detachment does not pass, then it is likely he is still in contact with her.

AnyFucker · 02/10/2013 18:30

Is there anything to add to charbon's words ? Nope. As per.

Good luck love. Personally, I think you are wasting your life on a man that doesn't give a shit about your happiness.

FrancescaBell · 02/10/2013 19:09

Ah, yet another depressed man who finds the time to have an affair Hmm.

I agree with all the advice you've had about telling him to sling his hook. He can't possibly respect you if you're willing to settle for so little and what's more worrying and important is that even if he does decide that he loves you and wants to stay (most likely to coincide when she tells him to sling his hook) and you've 'won'- you will slump. Your own self-respect will be at zero and that nice shiny prize won't look so shiny after all.

Don't ever demean yourself fighting another woman for a man. It's the quickest way to lose your self-respect.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP · 02/10/2013 19:49

I'm sorry OP, what a tough situation. But to sum up he has been unfaithful and he doesn't really want to be with you. You can dress it up as depression and I am truly sorry for what he's been through, but sooner or later he has to take responsibility for his actions.
I'm so sorry to say it but you can't make him want to be with you and you deserve to be with someone who loves you.
I think you should let him go.

Confusedandfeelingalone · 03/10/2013 08:16

Thank you for all the advice. I am trying to take it on board but at the moment giving up on 30 years together seems very hard to do not to mention the effect on our DC. I feel I need to try again to make him see things how they really are because at the moment I feel like I am the only one feeling any consequences from his affair. He thinks things are good between us and things are moving forward. He has always been selfish tbh but I am beginning to see how I have allowed that to increase over our life together.

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FrancescaBell · 03/10/2013 12:35

Have you tried to look at this a bit differently?

That asking him to leave now might save this relationship in the long run?

Whereas accepting this half-life is actually sabotaging it?

If this man values you and your relationship, he'll only fight for it once he knows he's lost both. Damned right you're the only one currently feeling the consequences of his actions, but he won't save this marriage until he does, of that I assure you.

Neither will he start to respect you again, which is essential in any good relationship.

But self-respect is something even more precious and is something you're currently giving up to stay in this marriage. I'm gutted your prepared to do that to yourself.

As for the kids, do you really think their life has been enhanced by a depressed-for-four-years unfaithful dad who left home and is only there because it's easier for him? Or a mum who is withering before their eyes with the pain of it all?

Think hard about what the kids are actually getting from this and what they are learning about adult relationships and consequences of shitty behaviour in marriages.

cjel · 03/10/2013 12:45

FWIW, I think that you could look on asking him to leave as another way you can aid to helping his depression. Giving him the chance to sort out what he wants.?
You may find that helps with the guilt you are feeling about separation.?
I am speaking as someone who was with DH for 35 years and have now realised that it isn't that hard to be on your own. If you have coped for all these years with this man then you are more than capable of being on your own.don't use that as an excuse to stay. He may decide he doesn't want to stay, and I don't think he will think twice about leaving you all.x

Confusedandfeelingalone · 05/10/2013 15:22

Thanks for your thoughts. I am not ready to ask him leave at the moment- he is quite vulnerable and I think he needs the stability of home life. I will work on building up my self esteem and making time for my own life. DH is trying very hard at improving our relationship- he may hate talking about things but in other ways he is really trying. I may look back in 6 months and regret my approach but at the m

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