Am I doing this right or being an idiot?

[LolaPolykettle]

A saga, but trying to avoid dripfeeding. NCing regular.

Our relationship (10 years) has always been great, lots of communication, very loving. The past few years have been difficult for us, with lots of stress, difficult family stuff, money worries, house repairs etc etc etc. My DH has been suffering from depression for a while which we both felt was due to a rough time at work. He was prescribed antidepressants but since taking them seemed to become more distant, uncommunicative, exhausted, with the odd sudden burst of being like his old self, which made us think they were working a little. Our sex life has been on/off whereas it used to be amazing.

Add to this my crap reaction to his distant mood, and his seeming inability to listen to me or pay attention (forgetting things, being uncharacteristically scatty and generally driving me mad). I admit I have been bossy, sarky, snappy, impatient - I feel that, for a while, I was always looking for an argument, just to get SOMETHING out of him - so that if he was fed up with our relationship or me, that he would tell me or I would see some glimpse of the man I love. Wrong, I know. I turned into this bitch that I didn't like or respect, and I'm not sure how it happened.

So, recently he broke down and told me that he has been having suicidal thoughts, memory problems, panic attacks, sleep problems. He hid it because he felt that he had to bottle it up or it would take over his life. He truly believed that he was being 'taken over' by something and that he has lost touch with himself completely. He's terrified.

He has also been having an online relationship with someone on the other side of the world. They were online friends, it got flirty and he says he started to have feelings for her. He hasn't offered any excuse for it, he seems almost as shocked by it as I am. He feels like shit about it, ended it right away and I have seen all messages. He is mortified, embarrassed and ashamed. He never lied to me about anything before and I believe him 100% when he says that contact has ended and that there was never any intention to meet. I have questioned him over and over and I believe he has been straight with me. I have stalked and hacked and seen it all.

I was destroyed and kicked him out. He went to his parents'. He was referred for urgent mental health care. They feel he may be bipolar or be suffering from psychosis as a result of a much more serious depressive illness than was previously thought. They have also suggested that the meds he was given could have been responsible for sending him into a manic stage which may go some way to explaining the online affair but he doesn't want to use this as an excuse. He is on different medication, some very hardcore stuff, and is dedicated to getting better, seeing doctors, having therapy etc.

I have never seen him like this; reduced to a wreck, shaking, crying like a child, so deeply ashamed and embarrassed. He doesn't expect anything from me, isn't arguing his case or making excuses. He knows exactly how hurt I am.

We spent the day together yesterday as a family and while it was hard for both of us, I felt like ME again, and I felt as though I were falling for him again. He told me that he has always loved me and that the only thing he is sure of is that he wants me. We talked about how the relationship wasn't right, how there was wrong on both sides. He wants us to have counselling with Relate to help us both through this, whichever way it goes. He has no intention of coming back unless he is better and his condition is stable and only if I truly feel it is the right thing for me.

So... Despite the hurt, I love this man. He has been a wonderful partner until very recently. He is a fantastic Dad. I want him to be always a part of my life - we were so fucking good together! I want to get past the infidelity (I am under no illusions - I know that is what it was) and make it work. I know that it will take a lot of work, and I know I have to change too. I would not get back with him for our DS or if I felt it was a compromise, I need to feel real passionate love, I will not settle for anything less.

I basically want your thoughts on the situation. Can I trust again? Does anyone have any experience with Relate? Any vipers reckon I'm being an idiot? Does anyone have a partner with a serious mental health issue?

I know this is long, but I really appreciate anyone who reads and doesn't run.

Thank you!

IS this the longest post in the history of MN? Floodgates well and truly open...

Imo yes you can. It needs working at and his mental health needs sorting first. . Didn't want to read and run.. You could be the reason he becomes himself again.

I think lol

Thanks isitme1 I agree his mental health needs sorting first. I would like to be the reason he becomes himself again.

I don't think you are being an idiot, and I think he may be worthy of your trust. He was suffering from MH issues and drug side-effects - without those influences, do you think he would have had this online relationship? It doesn't sound like it to me. If you can, try to consider the person who hurt you and the person he is now as two separate people; because in many ways they are. I hope that makes sense.

WhereYouLeftIt that is really insightful. I have thought about this so many times and even when I was at my most hurt and angry I felt like the man I married would never have done this, that the illness and the medication have turned him into someone I don't recognise. I should say that he isn't using illness or medication as an excuse. He has said he feels like he has been someone else, and that's how it feels to me too.

Wow. So sorry OP, sounds like you have been through some awful times. You are not being an idiot. It sounds from what you've said that your DH has really been in a bad place, and I don't think there's anything wrong with working on your marriage. Nothing really useful to add, sorry, just good luck!

Usually a viper. :)

I'd say give it time for both.
You are hurt and he needs to sort himself out.
Maybe you should have counselling separately from him and then have joint when you both are stronger and really know what you want.

I think it's a good sign he wants to get better first and he is not giving crap excuses but he should be able to share things with you.

With the online woman, he may have felt it was easier at first with a stranger (?) and then feel that she supported him. In the way that some patients may fall for their therapists.
However, it's easier to be understanding online than in real life, with children, house and jobs and with a person who won't talk about his feelings.
Remember you are not and are not meant to be his therapist.

On the other hand it's easy to fall for the rose-tinted glasses and be guided by hope than by reality.

So, I'd say thread carefully, make sure you are both walking on solid ground before taking the next steps.

Lweji very sound advice! Especially the idea to have counselling separately first and then together - I think that could really help so thanks for that. Communication is the key, so yes, he needs to be able to share things with me. Like he always has been. I guess that's the big shock, his inability to communicate.

I wont be his therapist, and I will aim for that solid ground before moving forward, in any direction. Great post, thanks!

Sorry about the post this morning
Couldn't write much as I was half asleep feeding baby lol but didn't want to read and run.
But yeah what I said before still stand wanted to make sure I was talking rubbish at stupid-o-clock
X

isitme1 it was very sensible! I couldn't string two words together let alone type them during night feeds!

Trying to reply to all posters as I really am grateful for anyone who gets through that super-long post!

agreed with above posters.

it sounds like he's a stranger who's moved into your husband's body, and the stranger's name name is Illness.

What's gone on isnt right, but it also isn't him. Once brought face to face with the situation, and with what sounds like pretty drastic MH medical intervention, he seems to be coming back. You've done the legwork and found no evidence of deceit in admitting to you what went on, no weaseling out of responsibility. (by the way, I don't hold to the view that alcoholism is a disease; I think it's a choice people make; but MH issues are different.)

I wonder if talking to the partners of other people with severe episodes of mental illness will help? Both in helping you understand and in forgiving. It seems to me that he is taking this as seriously as he should, as anyone could, and really wants to get better and to build things up with you again. Is he also trying to find out why the black cloud descended on him? There's usually, though not always, a reason.

You're bound to be confused and hurt and conflicted for a while, but if he means things as sincerely as it sounds and keeps on doing his best, then I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive and to build anew on the foundations of what you had before, which sounds very good.

I hope as well that your children can weather this horrible episode without too much impact. It must be very hard for them too.

You both sound lovely, both of you. Best of luck.

again, reading your post through, good luck to you both. He sounds like normally a very decent, competent man. He's hurt you badly, but he is also walking through hell. I hope he can reach the other side and see the sunlight again.

Meerka thank you so much I feel a bit emotional reading your post. You're right, he has never tried to weasel out of it and what we had was so good. I agree he needs to find out why the black cloud descended, even if it means confronting a very difficult reality.

We are doing our utmost to ensure our DS (3) isn't affected; both of us putting on a brave face and resisting any pettiness. I would never do anything to jeopardise his relationship with DS, and he trusts me on that completely.

Lola from what you've said, this sounds very much like a relationship worth saving. It will obviously take a lot of work, the rebuilding of trust (the loss of which may not be felt right now but may rear its head somewhere down the line) and a lot of patience from you both. Good communication is key. Try and keep him talking about anything that affects his mood. With help you can both start to recognise the thoughts that have led him down this path and work out how best to lead him back to you.

I sincerely hope you can work it out. Good luck!

If it's bi-polar, I think you're going to be in for a bumpy ride OP. It's notoriously difficult to get the meds. right and some individuals with the condition love the highs too much to self-medicate.

When I started reading your OP about his distance and your reaction to it, my first thought was 'affair' and then lo and behold, it revealed itself further down.

The tricky thing about any illness, whether it's a mental health issue, a personality disorder or an addiction, is that how one person experiences it will be different to another. People's personality, character and attitudes always have an influence on how they will cope with that condition.

What's so difficult for someone living with this is not knowing how much upsetting behaviour is down to the condition(s) and how much is down to the person himself- and would have happened anyway even if no condition existed.

Not everyone who is depressed, personality disordered, addicted or experiencing a mental health crisis will have an affair, so be very careful that you don't pathologise this and attribute it all to his health and not his very poor choices.

BlatantRedhead I love your name, I'm considering going balatantly red but this may not be the best time to make a big change... I am glad that my post communicates the fact that the relationship feels like it is worth saving. I was half expecting people to say that I am deluding myself because I miss him. It was a very good relationship. I'm not sure I can be patient, my mood is up and down all the time, but I am trying to be level-headed...

FrancescaBell thank you for that, we are hoping he isn't bi-polar.

Not everyone who is depressed, personality disordered, addicted or experiencing a mental health crisis will have an affair, so be very careful that you don't pathologise this and attribute it all to his health and not his very poor choices.

^This!!!^

This is basically what he has said to me. He says that the real him, the him I married, would never have let this happen, but he refuses to blame his mistakes on the illness, he chooses to hate the person he has become and is wracked with guilt over it. He chose to do what he has done; how much control he had over his thought processes is debatable - that is exactly what is haunting me. How do I know how much of it was down to illness? Or has he changed personality overnight and become a complete twat?

Not for nothing is infatuation described as the closest thing to insanity a sane person will feel in their lifetime.

If you read enough threads on here, lots of women talk about how it was as though their husband's body was invaded by an alien creature and there is much talk about 'bodysnatching'.

My instinctive advice to you as a pragmatist and someone who's not keen on excusing terrible behaviour or beliefs that atrocious behaviour really comes out of the blue, is to concentrate more on the infidelity and less on the illness.

There are some really wise posters on here who talk about how affairs are really just a manifestation of what was already there in terms of selfishness or entitlement. I don't ever believe that everyone's partners are lovely all of the time and you only have to look at threads on this board to see what perfectly ordinary intelligent women put up with and consider normal. Their 'normal' wouldn't be mine and maybe mine wouldn't be theirs.

So I wouldn't go down the road of thinking this was a complete aberration. I've known a fair few people have affairs at work and in my friendship circle and I've never thought it was completely out of step with their character but then I don't agree with the nonsense descriptions of 'cheating types' that others like to believe. My experience of 'cheating types' is that they are outwardly normal, everyday folk who are a bit selfish, a bit lazy, a bit egotistical, a bit needy to other people finding them attractive and a bit entitled to a brief adventure which they convince themselves will do no harm. I should think that covers a far bigger swathe of the population than the stereotype of 'players and femme fatales'.

I'd maybe challenge your memory a bit about how great he was before and start to see him in the round a bit more, while accepting that people in the grip of an affair do behave dramatically differently and appear to 'lose their heads' for a while.

well, whether it was illness or sheer stupidity, he is clearly extremely sorry for it.

From what you have said, it sounds to me like it's a direct consequence of the really quite severe illness and the extreme strain it put on him.

he became withdrawn and not his usual self. from what you say of your behaviour in response, you became .. um ... im sorry, but not very nice. He was fighting both the clearly severe mental health issues -and- things going wrong at home (no blame there btw; its the way things go sometimes under such stress, especially if you don't know what's underlying the problems). And then he started chatting to someone and it was an escape from both his inner reality and his outer reality and it went too far.

I think you're both probably pretty lucky he did break down. I imagine he's quite a self-respecting and proud man and it must have felt awful to him, but fortunately he did break down and it all came out and so - so, actually, now you have a chance to fix the situation. No guarentees it will work, ofc. But you do have a chance, maybe even a good one.

he got the treatment he needed; you have had chance to step back and look at your behaviour too. Whatever the cause of this emotional affair, and as I say it really does sound a consequence of the illness, he clearly regrets it deeply and has been totally honest. At a guess, he must have known it was wrong and he didnt step back in time, but the guilt must have been weighing on him as well as the inner black depression which was obviously severe, and the stress at home between you two.

One of those situations where sometimes a break down can, oddly enough, be a good thing?.

Fransesca, you dont get emergency mental health intervention and put onto "very hard core" meds just because you're a selfish, dishonest, lying twat. You don't get diagnosed as possibly bipolar or psychotic for nothing.

Re-examining everything sounds a good idea, but its clear her husband is in a very nasty situation medically. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the emotional affair that he seems to have confessed to himself (is that correct Lola?), there's some serious medical issues here.

which doesnt skate over what he's done, he has to take responsibility for them; somewhere even in the middle of illness there's usually a tiny small voice telling you if you're doing wrong. But it really, in this case, sounds like he is taking responsibility and not trying to wriggle out of it, as so many, many do.

At no point did I suggest this man is not ill.

But fact is, illness doesn't discriminate. Nice people get ill, nasty people get ill- people who are a bit of both get ill too.

I'm glad you've mentioned the OP's references to her response to his distant, withdrawn behaviour because I'd be interested in what really came first. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was the affair that was causing the distance, the scattiness, the stress, the irritability etc. and the OP's reaction to that was completely understandable frustration and annoyance.

His responses there are no different to anyone else's when they are having an affair, even those without an underlying physiological or pyschological condition.

If he can provide the OP with the real date this online dalliance started- and she's got a good memory of when the distance and scattiness started, it might be illuminating.

To clarify, the distance, the scattiness, the difficulty communicating, all came before the affair. That was something I made absolutely sure of when he told me everything. The mental illness has not just appeared out of nowhere as a convenient excuse for his behaviour.

Also, I would point out that in regards to "challenging my memory" on his exemplary behaviour before all this, surely the anger, hurt and betrayal of discovering an infidelity is a fairly big trigger to make me see him in the worst possible light, and yet even when I have been feeling at my bleakest in the early days when I was sure the relationship was over, I still knew in my heart that he is a good man, he loves me, he would never have lied to me. That isn't because it's what I want to think, I would much rather have thought of lots of times he had hurt me in the past, called him a bastard and threw his stuff out the window soap-opera style. But I know him. And I know that this behaviour isn't him. Even when he was confessing all, through the pain and anger I felt sorry for him because I felt like this had happened TO him somehow.

So FrancescaBell, yes, nice people get ill, nasty people get ill. I would like to clarify he is of the nice variety, and while infatuation is close to insanity, infatuation is not the mental illness we are dealing with here. I would like to pigeon-hole him as easily as you can, but he is a real person and doesn't conveniently conform to a 'type'.

francesca That sounded harsh, and wasn't meant to! I really do appreciate your response and your insight has been very useful.

Okay well if you've checked when the messages between them started and he'd genuinely never laid online eyes on this person (or anyone else) before all that behaviour started, then you can be more certain the behaviour was down to the depression/mental health issue than anything else.

Please don't misunderstand me. I don't see people in monochromes. In fact it is the very binary way some people describe cheaters that frustrate me. I think nearly all the people I've known who've been unfaithful are startingly ordinary- neither saints nor devils. They certainly don't conform to a 'type' apart from being your average, rounded man or woman. Maybe a bit more selfish or self-absorbed than the next person, but not extraordinary in any way.

Nor was I thinking of the extremes (pre-affair and illness) of him being a 'bastard' who repeatedly hurt you and induced you to chucking things out of a window .

I was thinking more of what people often say on threads involving affairs. That when they stopped and thought about it, they'd always taken more responsibility for the personal relationship, the familial relationships, the house, the life organisation, the childcare and babysitters, the school stuff...you get the picture. Much of that flies under the radar until people are forced to re-evaluate- and because there is so much nonsense about 'cheating types' being utter bastards or scheming villainesses, perhaps it's not surprising that those real red-flags get overlooked.

So I was suggesting that you challenged your memory more about this banal, everyday stuff and not moments of high drama.

I'm not saying he isn't a good man, or that he is a well man. But contrary to what you say, he did lie to you. He kept an intimate relationship with another woman secret from you, which is a whopping great lie of omission. It damaged your relationship and it has hurt you enormously.

It looks like he is unwilling to excuse himself for that, so I'd live with his process of self-examination if I were you and not rush to soothe his pain over it, or offer any excuses of your own that seek to explain it.

Thanks Francesca that is very insightful. I agree, he isn't excusing himself, and neither am I. And I am very hurt. I am certainly not offering any explanations for him or rushing to soothe his pain. I am being a veritable ice queen. I am being supportive to a degree, but focusing on my own independence and my child's needs.