Communication and constantly feeling ignored

[BillyGoatintheBuff]

I'm at the end of my tether with life at the moment. I'm feeling very emotional and a bit low to be honest. I just do not know what to do anymore :( communication between me and my dh is just so crap. I feel like I try lots of different ways to say things to him but it all ends up being ignored. I try saying things casually in passing, or directly but with a smile and trying to keep the tone 'light', I lose my temper and scream and shout and cry and I am just completely lost now. I honestly do not know how to communicate with him anymore. This is getting me down. I am always trying to tell him how ignored I feel and how miserable I feel most of the time.

Any advice? I would love to be able to talk in a way that gets me listened to.

Don't leave me feeling invisible on here too!

This is a very sad state of affairs.
What sort of things are you trying to tell him?

Besides that you feel ignored..

All sorts really. We have a toddler and a 10 month old and I am overwhelmed most days if I am honest. I have recently asked three times if he can go into work earlier and then leave earlier as I find the rush rush rush of the evenings really hard and would rather he helped in the evenings if he can swing it with work. For a week or so he did go in early and come home a bit earlier and it felt great, but then for a couple of weeks he was leaving late in the mornings again and I just kinda felt lost and didnt know how to talk about it again. I am fine if he says that work wont let him do it, I just feel like talking about it would help me. But when he changes the 'routine' without talking it over with me it throws me. I did eventaulyl ask him about it and he said that he cant leave any earlier but he can go in a bit later in the mornings and work dont mind. I just wish that he could have talked about it with out leaving me guessing what was happening.

This sounds very petty when i type it out! But i think it's an accumulation of lots of things to be honest and this is one recent example.

Thank you for replying to me by the way :)

I think maybe I am lacking anyone close in my life at the moment who i can talk about this sort of stuff with. I live down under and dont have a close friend just at the moment and dont really talk with my mum either. I think i am seaking support of this nature from dh when in the past i would have got it from one of a few close friends.

I used to value my close friends and using them as sounding boards. I have friends over here but we all get bogged down with discussing 'sleep' and other boring topics to do with the toddlers/babies. You get sucked into it and then afterwards realise you didnt talk about anything but babies.

A toddler and a 10 month old means you really have your hands full. It seems as if your DH hasn't really noticed that you are putting in 14-16 hour days with the DCs, and that he hadn't understood what you were getting at when you asked him to leave earlier in the evenings. It probably doesn't matter to you that he can go in later in the mornings...

Actually, if he goes in later in the mornings, what can he do for you at home at that time that would take the pressure off you for the evenings?
Could he decide what was for dinner and take meat out to defrost?
Could he take a look around the fridge and pantry and add a few items to the shopping list for you?
Could he entertain or feed or dress the baby and toddler while you take a nice shower and get yourself dressed and ready?
Could he take the hoover for a whizz around?
Take out the bins on binday?
Clean the bathroom, put on a load of laundry or sort and fold a load or two and put it away?
Sweep the kitchen floor, empty the dishwasher, fill the dishwasher..

What sort of help does he give when he does come home in the evening at the time you need him home?
What sort of time do you get all to yourself at the weekends?
How about you getting a whole day off to yourself on the weekend to do whatever you feel like, make plans, take the car?
Is there any activity you might like to take part in that you 'can't' now because you have the children? This sort of activity sometimes leads to real friendships.

I mention deciding what was for dinner as this is an area where I really struggled when I had small children. They required such complete attention in the morning it was sometimes 11 o'clock or later when I realised the mince or chicken or whatever was still frozen and couldn't possibly be ready to cook in three or four hours...

I also took to bathing the DCs (if at all) in the afternoon instead of evenings.

My own (now) exH was worse than useless with small children and babies -- he was constantly angry and frightened them so I sort of resigned myself to taking care of most of the practicalities myself, and I cut a lot of corners so I wouldn't end up dead from exhaustion.

I was also trying to live as normal a life as possible while abroad and far from family and friends and found it rough making connections. Talking about sleep and other mundane matters bored me to death and really what I wanted to talk about was exH's terrible temper but held back.

Hi BillyGoat, I really feel your pain, being ignored is so hurtful, then you just want to lash out and for them to know how much they've hurt you - and you get ignored more. At that point I can feel really out of control.

And being at home with children is fucking hard and thankless and tends to involve a lot of being ignored too, which ime adds to the feeling.

I don't have much useful advice, I'm sorry but I wanted to respond to your question about communication by recommending Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg. In a way it didn't help me because I was too damn angry at the point of reading it to want to be the architect of my relationship's salvation. But if you want to find a way of communication more effectively, I think it will be enormously helpful. It is fairly well known, your library may have a copy.

I also agree with mathanxiety that it sounds as though you are overworked and overburdened and you could think about how that might be eased. I also hate the daily cooking - so usually I cook extra dinner for DD to have the next day, iyswim, so that her food is ready whenever I need it, rather than frantically trying to cook with a screaming baby at my feet. If you have freezer space, you or DP or both batch cooking may help. Or if the issue is something else, think about how you can put practices into place to take some of the load off you at key moments of stress.

One reason I suggest he could get some housework or childcare in in the mornings is that if he isn't doing this then he seems to be neatly avoiding the bit of family life where push comes to shove. If he is at home he really should be contributing.

Either the contribution happens in the morning when he is at home, or in the evening when he is at home, or at the weekend when you get your day off and he gets to spend a whole day having food and tantrums thrown all around him.

I second the book recommendation, and there is a workbook that goes with it iirc. There is another book by Marshall Rosenberg called 'The Surprising Purpose of Anger' and it's a good (and short) read.

I remember seeing somewhere that there are some open ended questions you can ask a spouse to get him to think a bit about family life:
What are your goals when it comes to our relationship?
What are your goals when it comes to our family?
How do you see yourself attaining those goals?
How can I better support you when it comes to your role as a father?
Maybe these (esp the last one) could wait for a while, as you see how he responds to your request to him to contribute to the nuts and bolts of family life and to support you in your role as mother.

Obviously you would need an indication of good faith from him , some indication that he sees family life as an arena where he can have his goals fulfilled. It's easy for people with demanding jobs to get their rewards from the job and to see family life as something they can take for granted or a low status part of their lives, and it gets ignored. You may need to refocus his attention on his role as a member of your family. Some spouses need direction from a manager when it comes to family roles. They are used to being managed at work, or to having expectations set forth, a role to play in a team, but they slip into patterns from their home of origin when it comes to their own home life.

Or maybe he could identify short term goals as well as long term goals, and from there start thinking about the family as a team and how he can contribute to it, which may lead to practical solutions to the problem of you being stuck with two small children all the time and nobody really supporting you. If a problem is presented as an opportunity for him, where he is invited to help design a solution with solid management principles behind it, then he may be drawn into a more positive role in the family.

This is not about housework and childcare, it's about respect and being taken seriously. The details are immaterial. Demand air-time, be persistent and stop letting him take you for granted.

Thank you for your replies, I will re-read them in a moment! Definitely food for thought and it's lovely to be 'heard'!

I thing a few things jump out at me as good ideas and this is good, sometimes you feel like you are bashing your head against a brick wall and do not know how to stop the patterns of asking then nagging then being upset and feeling ignored.

He will actually do anything I ask him but I have to be extremely specific and so often I feel frazzled and not able to even form a proper sentence when he gets home from work. If I was inclined to write a big family manifesto or 'dh list' he would probably just follow along with it, but I just feel like sometimes with some things I need a sounding board. I need him to give different points of view on things and then I would feel like a team instead of the mum to everyone. He is one of these types of people who doesn't verbalise anything, no emotions or opinions on stuff/family stuff.

I am thinking about getting that book as well, I had a quick look on amazon and could read a few pages of it, looks promising.

I feel deep sadness that I do not communicate with my parents so maybe it will help me think clearly about that also.

I agree there Cogito. She is being taken for granted. Her H seems to have put no thought into home, family or relationship.

I wonder does he have Aspergers?

If someone's lazy, selfish, doesn't want to engage in family life and has learned they can safely get away with ignoring it, others will do everything and there are no consequences... that's precisely what they'll do.

Put down the books and listen OP. There are no bad consequences to your DH behaving the way he does. He has no incentive to change.

This sounds really tough, Billy, being away from family and friends with two little ones. Well done on surviving! You sound very low though and having two little ones with little family nearby, I can empathise. And I too have often felt as if my DP wasn't 'hearing' me. Especially T times when we weren't working well as a team or connecting as a couple - which is bloody tough to do around such a busy life.

People here have come up with some good tips to try to cut corners to make life easier, though you sound like you need some spoiling first and foremost! Can you book yourself a weekend day and night off to recharge a little? This might give you some space to decide on what changes you need and the best way to sit down with your DP to discuss them.

Btw, my DP's working hours vary and I think he found it hard to appreciate how the uncertainty affected me. I would get quite teary if I woke up to find it his 'early' day when I was expecting to be able to get a 5 minute shower to myself. I like the idea of lists of help he can give you in the morning and evening depending on his work hours. He needs to be contributing as much as possible during the week.

Take care.

Sorry, I've realised that I've talked about practicalities when you just want to be heard and respected by your DP. Is this a recent thing or has it developed with the pressures of a young family? Can you get babysitters easily and try to get out together? I find getting out of the house together forces a different dynamic. And are you able to get out of the house in the evening yourself, doing something for yourself and talking about omething other than babies? Your DH needs to step up and support you properly and it sounds like you will have to make this happen, rather than just asking - sadly.

I always think face to face conversations are best because they can naturally evolve as each person throws in something new. However, when you are dealing with someone who seems incapable of communicating effectively and just doesn't 'hear' you, sometimes a well-worded letter can work. It will allow you to say what you want without getting frustrated. He will find it less easy to tune out than conversation and receiving a specific written request of what you want him to do can sink in better. Always end your letter with very clear consequences of what will happen if change isn't forthcoming. If you aren't prepared to back up your consequences with action, don't send the letter and just accept things as they are because you will not achieve anything.

However, this hinges on the fact that you have someone who just is a poor communicator (if he's holding down a reasonably successful job he should be able to communicate effectively enough to listen to his wife anyway). If it's a case of him simply thinking what you feel isn't that important, you have a bigger problem I'm afraid. Hopefully that isn't the case though.

Your DH sounds similar to mine - the inability to say how he's thinking, the vague attempt to do what you want (leave for work earlier) then slipping back to old ways without giving an explanation etc. it is very frustrating, especially if you are the kind of person who likes to 'think aloud' about how to improve things.

I have found the most effective way is to simple state in clear terms exactly what I need him to do. He will probably then deliver it, but i have given up expecting him to tell me how he feels about it. You won't get a "that was a good idea, it has really improved our lives", or even the opposite "this is a real burden on me and I don't want to do it". Or, more practically, "I can't do x this week, but hopefully can manage it next week.' He'll just try to do what I want, if it's possible, but not expect any discussion about it.

I have to admit I still find this annoying, because really what I want is for him to admit how he feels and, related to this, get him to acknowledge how I feel (or how he thinks I feel).

I think my DH copes with life by kind of avoiding the difficult emotions and just focussing on the practicalities of life. A sort of stoical stance. It can be interpreted as selfish and self centred if I am not careful, but if I grill him, he is adamant that he just wants everyone to be happy and is working hard to make sure we are all taken care of. But Because he is not looking for me to congratulate him on this, he doesn't think to congratulate me on how well I am doing, or how difficult my work/life is. I, on the other hand, like to state how much I have done and how difficult it is, and for that to be acknowledged, then I feel better about it. Feels a bit embarassing to admit that, but I know that is how I am.

The job of looking after two little ones is a daily grind and very thankless, which won't be helping, but it doesn't sound like your DH is a bad guy. Just not very empathetic.

BillyGoat, how about making your list, and including in it a request for a periodic chat (and describe what 'chat' means to you using bullet points -- you are going to have to be very specific) - it could be every evening once the DCs are in bed and the TV is off if you so wish.

I went with exH to a couples' retreat called Retrouvaille (very ill-fated in my case as we were absolutely not good material for it). The aim of the programme was to teach people how to communicate with each other respectfully and lovingly, basically with written letters to each other where various topics were written about in an open ended way, with various sensory prompts requiring paragraphs written (what colour did X memory of your baby's birth remind you of; if X memory was weather, what sort of weather would it be, for instance) as the means of getting to that point. I don't know if you would be interested in it as it involves a weekend away plus several follow up sessions on a weekend afternoon, or if it's available where you are. It's sort of multi-denominational but more heavily RC and there is a religious element to it with some silent prayer iirc -- and maybe that wouldn't be your cup of tea. It is not recommended at all in cases of abuse of any kind (this is where exH and I came a cropper).

He's not listening because there is no downside to not listening. His life is fine as it is, everything gets done, he has various excuses for not showing an interest and it all sounds very relaxing. Who wouldn't like a life like that? If he can ignore the OP and nothing especially happens to him (clearly he's not bothered that the OP is tearing her hair out) ... where's the motivation to behave any differently?

So forget cost chats, books and retreats. Find something that would make his life appreciably worse and threaten him with it ...

I need him to give different points of view on things and then I would feel like a team instead of the mum to everyone.

This is my relationship too OP. And I am starting to think that this is a personality type - or at least a deeply rooted emotional pattern. Or both. My DH treats me the way he does his mother: tunes out, I escalate to ranting harpy, he tunes out more. But as Cogito says, and I worked out a while ago - why would he change? As I said to DH, if everything stayed the same, but I were happy, he would be happy. The balance of domestic labour and compromise is entirely in his favour.

I know something has to change here too, but I can't think what - other than leaving. Cogito, any concrete suggestions and examples? my DH doesn't respond to threats so it has to be something that I can make happen (we haven't had sex in months so not that)

In your situation rootypig you are left with no choice but the ultimate consequence if his behaviour doesn't change i.e. it's over. It's not an idle threat or posturing, it's self-preservation.

Yes. I think I do know that on some level. Time to get my ducks in a row .

OP, good luck with the reading, it is all worthwhile stuff and I hope that it helps.