Help re housework expectations / work distribution

[ShakkaKhan]

I don't know what to do. DH and I keep arguing about cleaning, it is so bloody tedious. I am a SAHM to our little boy who is 16 months old. He is cruising but not walking OR crawling so leaving him unattended is basically going to result in him falling over and whacking his head on our hardwood floors. He starts crying about five minutes sitting down as he wants to walk around. So I find it difficult to do jobs around the house but I always get the basics done: clothes washing and drying, cooking, washing up, wiping surfaces, wipe up after every mealtime when stuff has bee thrown everywhere, keep the bathroom reasonably clean (clean toilet every few days/wipe surfaces every day and generally try and keep it tidy). DH works long hours and although we share the early wakings (5:45-6 most mornings, I am planning on trying to drop a nap to make him sleep later), he usually doesn't get home until after DS has gone to bed.

This morning was DH's turn to get up, after a busier than usual week for him. We've hardly seen each other all week as I like to get to bed by 10 regardless of if I'm getting up early as DS is being really challenging at the moment and I find it a bit exhausting. So I get up at 8am to find H stomping around in a huff that he's had to clean up. Basically we had another row, the essence of which is that he has higher cleaning standards than I do (which I imagine is pretty common, one person thinking things should be cleaner?)

I am sick of arguing about it. He has said before that he thinks its easy being at home with DS (after he looked after him for 3.5 days while I was away for the weekend, despite the fact his mum came and took DS out so H could do jobs ) and he thinks I should do more housework. I think I do enough. My priority is spending quality time with DS and taking him to baby groups/ the park etc. not wiping the blinds.

What can we do about this? I was thinking about drawing up a chores list (making sure some things are assigned to DH). I'm not sure how we move forward. I suppose bubbling under the surface is that I feel under appreciated and he feels I have an easy life and is resentful about going out to work. Don't see how we can change this either.

Please help. I hate arguing with him, he says nasty things which make me say nasty things then it all gets out of hand

I have nothing to say about your problems but please do not drop the nap. It is probably too early and will only make his sleep pattern worse.
When he starts walking, he will probably sleep better. (very old mum of six)

My DS1 dropped his morning nap at 15 months and then started sleeping 7-7, but you might find you need to bring your lunchtime nap forward a little bit! You'll need to keep him going in the mornings at first then he will settle into that routine.

Do you have a playpen he could play in whilst you do a few jobs?

Can you afford a cleaner?

I'm a sahm to two boys and only the basics get done; the rest I try and do at weekend when DH is about or just don't bother :) mine are 2.4 and 11 months so not much chance of getting stuff done in the day!!

Depends whether he's complaining about the standard of what you are doing or whether actually he doesn't think he should have to do anything at all.

IMO, the latter stance is unacceptable when you have small kids, no matter how much you work. Everyone has to muck in. Remind him that he couldn't manage for 3 days without calling in Mummy so he can't talk.

Looking back I now appreciate how hard my husband worked including all the overtime, so that I could be home with my two kids who were a year and a half apart. Yes I worked hard running the house but without the money he made I couldn't have done this. To stop arguing could you just tell how much you appreciate what he does and that you will try to up the cleaning a bit. By saying this he will probably reciprocate by thanking you for what you do too. win win. I found once I changed the way I related to my DH that he automatically did the same. Now we never argue and always thank each other for tasks we do.

I had the same arguments with DH for years - he would get so cross that I hadn't done stuff because he felt I intentionally left it for him to do, whilst I would genuinely think it didn't need doing yet eg he would consider the hoovering needs doing every day whilst I'd start thinking it would need doing after a week.
It took years before we really understood where we were each coming from so I really do sympathise.
It may help to discuss what jobs you each feel need to be done, frequency and relative importance.
Once we really talked like that, it turned out there were certain things that caused more upset than others for various reasons and other things I was doing to try and make him happy that he never even noticed!
I also had to tell him tough on a few things- he was coming home from work to a chaotic and messy kitchen because I was cooking dinner at that point. I explained that there was no way to avoid that, go straight upstairs and hide until I call you for dinner if you can't cope but I'm going to have pans and chopping boards etc out half an hour before dinner! He now helps (ok, he steals my implements to wash them up whilst I'm trying to use them but its much more friendly than it used to be).
I hope you find a good balance quicker than we did.

I think he is being unreasonable. It's hard work looking after a toddler that age and its right you should have quality time with him. it sounds like you do a good amount of chores anyway, so what if the house gets a bit messy?

He didn't have to stomp around the house cleaning. I'm sure you would have done a bit too when you got up. I think he has to appreciate that it's not as important anymore.

it's crap when an issue like this takes over everything else though. you couldmsuggest a a couple of compromises maybe? could you both get up at the same time one or two mornings so once can look are DC and the other clean. or have a whizz around before you go to bed?

So there's a list of stuff you can reasonably manage whilst taking care of your child. Together, list the other stuff and decide who will do what whilst the other has the child.

What's the balance like on your husband's days off? What breaks from childcare and housework do each of you get? Does your husband come in from work and want to spend time with his child, or does he expect some "me time"?

I used to get so angry if dh commented on the house - he doesn't anymore. Some days it's quite tidy when he gets home (mine are 4.5, 3, 1) and other days it's a shit tip. Some days the youngest has 5hrs of naps, some days he has 30mins and expects to breastfeed all day, some days everyone is well and happy, other days they're sick and fussy and it takes me all my time and energy just to stay ahead of a nervous breakdown.

Dh does long hours so I don't expect him to do anything when he gets home, I would be seriously annoyed if he told me to get cleaning at 8pm. But if it's the weekend then we both do our 'fair share'.

You're right to be annoyed, it isn't fair of him to criticize YOUR job. You wouldn't very well go into his work and start picking apart his. How undermining to tell you he's got higher standards than you! Maybe he has, but this is YOUR job, not his, so he should butt out. You WILL do what you can do. He has to learn to respect that. Your priorities are, rightly, keeping you and your dc safe and happy. It sounds like you're doing a great job already, if he want's it cleaner then he'll have to put the extra hours in himself - that's his choice. What is he a slave driver?

This is not about work division, it's about respect. Sorting out who does what about the place is a collaborative thing... working as a team... and you could fix that between you in about half an hour tops. Totally immaterial really. What you're describing is that age-old thing of a man as sole wage-earner believing that, by bringing in the money, it entitles him to treat the other members of the household shabbily, criticise their efforts, belittle their contribution and generally throw his weight about. That's your problem... attitude... not who washes the dishes

Exactly Cog, he's taking about op meeting 'his standards', who is he, her boss?

I'd also suggest you get back to the workplace asap. Earn your own money, have a life outside houses and kids and rebuild your confidence. Some people can do the SAHM/financially dependent thing and make it work in a healthy way. But there are so many men that regard the housewife role as 'sitting on your arse, spending my money' that I think, for a lot of women, it's a big mistake.

But Cog even when the OP goes back into employment, it will likely be part time, and therefore potentially viewed by the DH as less important by virtue of this fact. Then the OP may well find herself working and shouldering 95% of the childcare/household responsibilities. I think the underlying attitudes need to be teased out while the OP Is fresh out of mat leave.

Employment, whether it's PT or FT, means independence, confidence and self-respect. You're right, it's about underlying attitudes and IMHO the DH's attitude here is unlikely to change. Currently the OP's choices are very limited in scope - always the problem with being financially dependent on a man - and I'm suggesting she makes herself less reliant & gives herself more options.

Thanks everyone. I agree it's about respect, sometimes he really talks down to me and it really gets me angry. It's not just me he does it to but he doesn't really see it himself. But I can't really change that about him. I've tried telling him he sometimes talks to me like shit giving say one example but my memory is terrible and I can never seem to do 'well' in an argument. Everything has to be his way and in a few senses I
Feel a bit bullied. Like today after we'd argued (we still haven't made up, I'm going to talk to him once DS is in bed), I went to restack the cookery books after ordering them
According to type of food and author. He came along and started restacking them, but in his own order. Things like that. Very belittling.

Think tonight I will suggest we go through and divide up the chores and that should highlight (like a pp said, sorry am on phone and can't scroll up) which bits he thinks are essential and where the discrepancies are.

I will also say that I'll try and make DS nap in his cot (at present hell only nap in pram and we live in a block of flats with no lift so no way of bringing him home asleep with me getting on with housework while he's sleeping) to give me more time.

To those who said about returning to the workplace, I am planning to do so. We'd originally agreed I'd go back in may next year but I need more balance in my life. At the moment I rarely get any child free time, perhaps one Saturday morning a month. No time for hobbies as DH is often working late and I can't leave him home alone.

I just feel like nothing I ever do is good enough. It's not nice.

Something's got to give. If you 'feel a bit bullied' it's because you're living with a bully. You're pulled apart, made to feel insignificant or stupid, get no time to yourself, no support, no say, and you've been reduced to a walk-on part in your own life. When someone decides you can't even order your own book collection, they have zero respect for you. Zero.

Get that job now rather than next year because you are in danger of disappearing into the wallpaper. He doesn't give a shit.

BTW.... nothing you do is good enough because that's what he wants you to believe. It's how arseholes like this stay in control. Fight back... refuse to be cowed... tell him to fuck off if necessary....

I agree with Cogito

Start researching new jobs.

It sounds like you are both taking out your frustration and tiredness on each other. Which is understandable as you are both worn out.

All I can say is that your DS will be walking soon and off to nursery, it's only a matter of months or a year or so at most. Can you both just stop bickering for that relatively short time and make an agreement to make the best of things for the time being.

I started looking for jobs yesterday. Live in London so hopefully can find something reasonable for 3/4 days a week. I can't wait until this nursery place comes up. I also don't want to end up being responsible for 95% of everything AND working though

I too agree with Cog its about respect. Im not even sure doing this list of chores together will really change his mindset. I would just sit him down and tell him calmly what you are prepared and capable of doing each day. If hr doesnt think this is sufficient then it is up to him to make up the shortfall or to get in a cleaner. Emphasize how your POV is non negoitable and all the shouting in the world wont make you do more because its the baby that is most important not a pristine home

That's the essence of it bakingaddict, I think DS and his happiness/well being is the most important whereas DH believes living in a very clean and tidy home to be the priority.

He didn't use to be this bad, I feel I need to say. When he's stressed at work (which is often as he owns his own business) he feels he needs to be somewhere tidy as he feels its better for his mental well being. Which I get. But I also feel its about control to a degree.

We are still yet to talk, he's working

Hmm. Didn't exactly go well. I wrote the chores list as it currently stands, hoping he'd see I do way more than he realises or appreciates. Then he basically argued over every point on it saying either I don't actually do it or I "don't do it properly". I am really angry with him. We've reached an impasse. We kind of said that when I go back to work we will get a cleaner. Which I suppose is good.

So he took the opportunity, rather than appreciate how much you do or offer to help, to criticise your efforts and shout you down? I have a crisp tenner here says that, even if you got a cleaner, he would find something else to find fault with you over. This is not about housework. This is about keeping you down.