Should strangers really be advising women to leave their husbands?

[mamabrownbear]

On many threads on MN the general default response seems to always be LTB. I find this really sad and potentially dangerous.

Yes obviously there are situations when it would be best for everyone involved to end the relationship.

However, sometimes I think it's tired exhausted women needing someone to understand them, sympathise and help. Not judge on what little facts a stranger gives you and tell them to make life altering decisions.
Personally I don't think I could advise anyone to leave their partner unless their well being or children's is in danger. I wouldn't want to influence a friends decision on that, let alone a stranger.

I get the impression there are a lot of strong women out there and MN is a safe place to discuss problems. But the solutions on offer seem very black and white sometimes.

I expect to get flamed but it does upset me when a woman is told to leave her partner by people who don't know the full story. We used to be able to talk to our partners and figure things out. Yes life is short but its also hard work sometimes but hopefully worth it...

Frankly, I have at least one friend who I just bloody wish would leave her husband. She is constantly trying strategies to "make it work" and I just wish she would go. It is draining a lovely woman dry. Friends and I often agree we think she should LTB. And still she doesn't...

It takes quite a lot to decide to LTB, generally.

The thing is, that in every problem page we have read since we were young, we have read "Relationships need to be worked on."
That is true up to a point. There always is a little give and take.
But if one person persistently takes, takes, takes to the detriment of the other person, then no amount of "work" on the other person's part will change that.
You can't "work" abusiveness and cuntishness out of someone else.

Lorna, you sound way more agitated than everyone else.

If my relationship turned sour/nasty the MN is exactly where I would go for advice. AFAIK I don't know anyone in real life who has been/is in an abusive relationship. Obviously it is more than likely that I do, but they haven't disclosed this to me. Therefore I don't know anyone who can say to me "My relationship was like that, I left and my life was much better" or "I stuck that for years and he didn't change". I think that the only people saying LTB in some women's lives may be posters on MN. And they may be a very important voice.

Let's face it, if a RL friend tells you about something awful their husband has done, you might think, 'Why the HELL would you want to live with this utter cock?!' but you can't actually say it.

Because your mate will not LTB, and you will be 'that evil bitch who tried to split us up'.

But a stranger can tell it like it is.

Got a cousin who: has been head butted, punched, called names, throttled.......to name a few. Oh how I wish she'd ltb....she's been told by other people to "work at it". Work at what?????? Being a punch bag?

I had already decided I had to admit failure and LTB, and was working towards it but still feeling terribly guilty, when a friend pointed me in the direction of MN. Well, what an eye opener. The number of women posting about things their H had said that was exactly the words XH used... little tricks of his that I thought were unique... the cycle of abuse, where you think "at last he's getting it", you've come to an understanding, knocked one unacceptable behaviour on the head - only for another to creep out of the woodwork just when you were getting comfortable... the realisation that however hard you work at it, however reasonably you discuss it, however cunningly you negotiate, you will never win because the goalposts will forever be shifting. Because your man does not want the same things you do out of a relationship. He does not want a partnership of equals. He does not want to understand or to be understood. He likes you on the back foot, weeping gently, then he can be the kind comforter and scoop you up and make it all better. Wtf? He's the one that made you cry in the first place! He's the one who wangled things so that he's the only one you can turn to when you're upset. Fuck it, my supposedly unique relationship was all documented on here, and in books, articles and websites I found out about through MN. (To be fair, my brother linked to a page describing emotional abuse at around the same time. He's not so daft either.)

I let go of the guilt, and instead felt shame that I had been so taken in. And then after a while I let go of the shame as well. So many other women, fabulous women who are clearly not stupid or weak at all, have been taken in in the same way; I am in excellent company. Now I rejoice in my divorced status because it is a badge of honour, like the scar of a war wound. I've been though shit but I got out. It's just a pity it took a quarter of a century (!) to cop on.

And no, I don't hate men. I have four sons, the aforementioned brother, and a whole bunch of really excellent male friends. They're all great. What I hate is men who behave abusively. I'm not too keen on women who behave abusively either, but as I haven't been married to one (though I certainly have come across a few) hearing about them doesn't rile me up to quite the same extent.

All posters say LTB some of the time, some posters say LTB all of the time, etc etc.

I see that a few posters have almost told the OP to LTB too.....

Anniegetypurgun.....brilliant post!!!! Exactly my experience.

And yes....that hint of "bitterness" that people refer to- it isn't....it stems from that badge of honour you describe. You KNOW how good the poster will feel once they've recognised and left abusive relationships. I have friends and sisters on wonderful relationships and to them I would advise them to compromise, work at it etc. I have other friends who are sad and who just don't get anything in return for the work they alone are putting into the relationship. Some others (my cousin) are not only getting little from their relationships but are being abused and destroyed as a person, confidence, esteem, love of life.
Some relationships are bad, some are good. Some just aren't worth sticking with and it's not a failure to ltb.

I don't think that many people would deny that relationships are hard work at times. That's life, and mostly, there's enough good stuff in there to make the work worthwhile.

However, if you see a situation where one partner is doing ALL the work, and the other is making them feel rubbish while they do so - how are you meant to respond?

I think it's hard to say over the internet whether someone is 'just very tired' or whether they're shouldering the load of the whole relationship. If they suddenly had 3 good night's sleep in a row, would all their problems be solved? Or would they still have a partner who was draining the life out of them?

It's tricky. I try not to overuse LTB. However, when you're reading a thread and you're literally aching for the person, man or woman, who's living it day after day... well, sometimes it's hard to bite your tongue.

I've seen some threads here recently where the woman is reluctant to leave, despite the man being violent and horrible and despite people telling her it would be best to leave. It's so sad.

So LTB is obviously not some magical word that makes women leave good or bad relationships. I really don't understand your worry OP. I worry more about those who are stuck in dangerous, abusive relationships.

Yes yoni, agree. I don't understand the ops worry. People being encouraged to stay in relationships is far more worrying. The idea about " people used to talk", no, a lot of people were in bloody unhappy marriages. They were stick together whether they like it or not. My port grandma has neighbours cross the street to avoid her when she divorced on the 1950's.....her situation was so bad she had to leave her children behind. She obviously didn't do it lightly yet she was judged for it. Thank god we've moved on!

Mamabrownbear your husband is abusive and you are in denial.

Bad typos....sorry

I've been on here for 10 years and when I arrived I didn't even know what an abusive relationship was. Turns out I was only flipping well in one ! I genuinely had no idea I was until I put a thread on here. And I got the LTB responses (although LTB is a relatively new MN acronym).

I cannot express my gratitude to the wise people who posted on that thread. They got it immediately and framed my confusion almost instantly and it all started to slip into place.

If I had asked my friends, they would have had no idea and indeed used to say things like "just get going with having sex and you'll get into it" even after he had , coerced and bullied me into 'cleaning his pipes'. My friends were (an many still are) like me and have no idea about abusive relationships.

I see mumsnet as an oasis of reason about relationships. I have never seen bad advice for women. It is not a coincidence that abusive men (like my ex) DETEST Mumsnet. He even mentions it as a reason why our marriage "failed" now. So bravo Mumsnet.

The fact is that many people who get the LTB advice on here keep coming back with more tales of how unhappy they are and what a bastard DH is. I can't imagine these women, who are in denial about their situation, are going to act on any advice they might get here.

Might be better to turn the question around and ask "Why would you seek relationship advice from strangers on MN?".

The answer would probably be because they've been lurking, can see what happens on here, and need/want some advice and support. Or just a good moan/vent.

Look friends & family in RL often just don't give good advice! When I was in an EA relationship, my narcy mum said 'oh well, six to one, half a dozen to the other'. Fuck that shit! ('scuse French).
MN has given me some solid pointers about healthy relationships AND educated me further about some quite intricate relationship dynamics. There has been some damn good advice from some very wise posters on here.

Understand (sort of) where you're coming from if you're thinking along the lines of some sort of duty of care (?) but 'fraid I just don't agree with you on this one OP (and for the record, I haven't observed 'LTB' to be any sort of default on relationship threads..), but if what other posters have said is true about your situation, then I do hope you're ok.

i think way back when i got my divorce, i was getting a lot of "projection" from others

• "oh, you should be grateful to have someone so "nice"."

• "i tolerated my shit marriage for ages, why can't you be the same?"

• "oh how DARE you come out a couple months post separation being all presentable and content and getting male attention, that's "surprising".

translation: why aren't you wearing a sackcloth and ashes and weeping on how your life is over to validate my POV and make me feel better over myself. i mean the thought of anyone not being "grateful" for a nice professional man who doesn't beat or cheat is unthinkable, right?)

i don't even see these people any more, of course , wasn't even a mumsnet user then!

I used to work really really hard to make myself happy and have a good relationship with my husband.
Then i finally followed MN's advice, and l(eft) TB and have found its fucking easy to be happy when you don't have to put up with shit all day every day.

@Switched.. that made me smile. All these women chasing to the doctors and getting prescriptions for ADs so that they can 'put up with shit all day' are another group that gets forgotten. A few 'LTBs' in the right ears might just save the NHS billions in unnecessary meds and therefore be regarded as public spirited.

See LTB is a public service!

Although I suspect the AD's will be prescribed to all those poor men, like my exH, whose lives have been ruined by their nasty wives that refuse to put up with their shit any more.

My exH still texts me almost a year later asking when I'm going to 'come out of my bad mood'

Public Service indeed

Saw a quote recently that said words to the effect of: when you think you're anxious or depressed, maybe you're just surrounded by arseholes!
Never truer.
I had a similar experience to you Rinse