Mother / Madonna / Whore (Syndrome)????

[schooldays]

I am going to counselling following a really shitty marraige.
I would always have described it as an abusive relationship but counsellor today (who has also worked with exH) said its more like the above.

Sounds like a bit of a cop out to me - what do ye think??
Ever heard of it??

[AnyFucker]

I think you were very lucky, Dione. Sounds like one of the better ones, but IMO she had no business offering to counsel you together

Did you ever go back to that counsellor?

[DistanceCall]

I don't think Dione's counsellor offered counselling them together. She says that the counsellor said that the husband should continue to work with his own MH team.

In my own experience, a good therapist would do exactly the same thing.

[AnyFucker]

I am not sure, DC

Dione seemed to be disagreeing with me when I said JC was inappropriate based on her own experiences, and that the counsellor had offered to see them together to draw up a "contract" between them

Because abusive men stick to contracts, don't they

[DioneTheDiabolist]

We went to Relate together. That's what happened in our one and only session. She only counseled couples. I subsequently used my medical plan to access my own counsellor.

I understand her offer of a future contracting session if I was to go back (something she absolutely did not recommend). Abusive men do not stick to contracts, but having one can help abused women leave again.

[schooldays]

The counselling came about becuase i basically insisted that H finds a counsellor to sort out his issues. Or marraige over for good etc. He wanted me to go aswell (but seperately) and at first i said not a chance. But then last week i decided i would give it a go.
I dont think the counsellor had any idea of the depts of the issues until he spoke to me and i told my story.
He says he is not directive and only helps people finds their own answers. I think maybe he is a bit shocked by what i have told him but its a bit of a shocker to be told that perhaps H has this sydrome. Frightened me actually last nite to think i am married to someone like this.

I think i do want out. I have been trying to get out and stay out for about 2 years now. Its just such a huge decision plus as someone said i am a bit scared of actually telling H its over. Only two weeks ago we had a big chat and i thought he really understood things and there might be a future.

I can see that i am kind of treating him like a child. I write out lists of sh*t that i have issues and go through them with him one by one. He listens and agrees with me and thats usually fine until the next time he lies to me or is rude or weird. Its ridiculous i can see that now.

He is living at home with his family at the mo. I am in the family home which is in my name and i know he wouldnt claim any right to it he has his own properties. He ususally calls in every evening to see the dc's but i know its to see me too. He will have his dinner here and even do hoovering tidying kithen etc. Its like he still lives here but just goes away after kids go to bed to sleep somewhere else IYKIM.

I noticed even yest eve when he called (i didnt want to be around him) so i went to for an while to meet a friend. Even that he didnt like. He didnt say anything i just knew by him that it didnt entirely suit him that i went out. So we are seperated but not in any meaninful way.

we are acutally suppposed to be going to a wedding this weekend (arranged on a good week a while back) and i really dont want to go.

I think i will phone him today and tell him no to wedding and no to reconcilliation. Any ideas what i could say am crap at conflict. I cant just phone him up and tell him to sod off but i need to make it clear that i dont want him calling every evening. i want to get across to him that i he has issues that i am no longer willing to tolerate etc etc.

Help - words for my mouth please??

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I have thought about this long and hard. I no longer love you. Our relationship is over. I won't be getting back with you and I won't be going to the wedding with you this weekend.

[schooldays]

Oh shit i did it. I just phoned him up and not as calmly as op put it but told im its over, im out and not putting up with it for another day and i wont be going to the wedding.
His initial reaction was "but will you stil go to the wedding"!!! And if we were back living together we could sort it out.

I said not a hope. Then he started bawling his eyes out. Said he will do anything i want him to do just tell him what. That he has already done everything i asked him to! He was sobbing at this stage. I said im sorry to have to tell you this over the phone but im too intimidated to tell you face to face and i wont put myself through that anymore.

he could hardly speak at this stage he just said send me on the details (i think he means when he can see the dc's etc).

I am shaking.

I actually felt so sorry for him when he was crying.
After all i have been through with him i know i will find it very hard to let go of him. the cycle has been going on for so long now how will i escape it??

major hand holding please...

[KatyTheCleaningLady]

You did good.

You don't owe him anything. Not even sympathy. You don't have to listen to him cry or anything. The less contact with him, the better.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Well done OP. What you have done shows tremendous strength and courage.

Of course you felt sorry for him. He is in pain and it is hard to see another person in pain. Remember that this is a terrible situation for all of you, but it is the only solution. You cannot solve his problems. You can only stop them from ruining your life too.

What is your history regarding breaking up and getting back together?

[schooldays]

oh fck he just rang me there - hes furious.......
then he asked me if i will please still go to the wedding!! what the fck is wrong with him. well i know i suppose - he doesnt want to lose face in front of family by me not being there.
this is obviously a priority right now

he has flipped i think, cause then he started saying he will be taking "his" car and his tv and his pc. that he bought them and if im saying wer not married anymore then they are his.

and he wont be able to afford the amount of maintenance he currently gives me.

so i said look im not listening to this, i said get me a solicitors letter and outline what you want and we will see about that.

oh man - am nervous -he is crazy - i am convinced...

[schooldays]

Dione - our history is that we break up - and i always end up runnign back to him - he usually doesnt even apolgise for whatever reason made us break up - he just starts the nice guy thing and i decide in my deluded mind that he is sorry.

Counsellor rightly pointed out that the lenght of the time between breaks is getting shorter and shorter. First time it was 6 months over something horrible, next time it was 4 months over something truly awful and now its really a few weeks here and there. Cause we have kids now its easier for him to worm back into my affections.

NOT THIS TIME - I am genuinely concerned about his reaction..

[KatyTheCleaningLady]

You handled that well. He can afford the maintenence the courts say he can. He can have the car (maybe if it's in his name). He can't break into the house and take the TV.

Engage as little as possible and get the legal ball rolling.

[schooldays]

can he really take the car?? it is in his name but isnt it our car??
what am i supposed to do - go on foot everywhere with 3 kids??
miserable b*stard. i dont work - he has loads of money hidden away - hes just being a shit - trying to upset me -

[DioneTheDiabolist]

You go back to him because you have prioritized his happiness over yours. Please understand you cannot make him happy. Nothing you do will ever be enough, he will keep causing you pain. He will say that he's changed, he may want and believe that he has changed, but he cannot change without lengthy professional help or while he is in a relationship.

Right now it's time to prioritize your feelings of sadness. Be your own best friend right now. Do not answer any of his calls. Delete his voicemails without listening. Get some tea, chocolate and wine in and nurse your broken heart.. Can you get some RL friend's to come round?

[Wellwobbly]

The tears didn't work so the anger and vindictiveness started. He is abusive.

See a solicitor and ask for a forensic accountant as well.

[WeAreSeven]

God, it's like a script, isn't it? The crying followed by more abuse. You need to get yourself a good solicitor, OP!

[KatyTheCleaningLady]

Next will come more crying, and maybe attempts at being "nice" - then back to angry when it doesn't work.

[schooldays]

you guys are very smart. yes thats true - crying to abuse to threats to god knows what next.
his brother phoned me as H (exH!) had phoned him and asked bro to phone me. He is actually very understanding as he knows the whole story. Although he would love it we could work it out he understands the awful side of his brother. So anyway - bro asked me if i would sit down with exH and discuss acess etc etc. instead of gettig solicotrs. So i told him that i couldnt let him near me until he calms down and cops on.

if i dont take him back this time it will be the first time in many many years that i didnt. i really think i am strong enough this time

my mam just called (who i dont get on with really - she thinks i am a constant disappointment) - i told her straight out what was happening. another step taken

have lots of RL friends. most of whom will be happy i am away from that man - who didnt really know what i saw in him in the first place. one friend often describes his as "dark". more friends will be shocked and will probably try and 'play devils advocate' (which i find the most annoying turn of phrase ever and can never be applied to a situation like this)

il be fine but i am worried - he is in essence an aggressive bully, who disrespects women, who loves his wife and kids (in his mind) who has just been told its over and who will not take it well.

i may keep posting if ye dont mind keeping me company

[southfieldsmum]

Dearest OP

Very well done, how brave of you. You have taken the first step back to yourself. To be happy and calm and at peace for yourself and the dcs. No longer for him but for you. Look after yourself, surround yourself with people who love and support you and away from those who will try and second guess you. Carry on standing up for yourself and soon it will feel less scary and more normal as you recover and get stronger out from under the power of him and his manipulations.

Xx

[Mueslimorning]

May I say, after just joining this thread, that I admire you for your courage. Well done!

(I know in my heart my dh is the same, I'm just waiting for either an improvement through counseling to continue or a worsening to end our relationship, with no guilt attached).

[BeverageCommando]

If it feels abusive to you then its abusive and you would do well to leave if you can. Counselling won't make it better.

Its not good practice to have joint counselling in these circumstances. The counsellor sounds shit by the way and since they don't live your life, then they don't know what it is really like.

You're life is worth more than this.

[cjel]

Hope you are going to round up all the RL help you can get in all this,You have made a huge step and could do with all the hand holding yo can get. Get to the solicitor 1st thing in the morning, start the legal ball rolling so he can't hide any more money away. I found that with the solicitor on side its easier to keep to what you want to do.

Well done, hope you are ok?x

[WeAreSeven]

schooldays, his brother may be lovely but of course in the end, blood is usually thicker than water. If you feel you need a solicitor to handle him, then get one, regardless of what BIL says. You have to look after yourself and the dc, your ex is not your responsiblity.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

What are you worried he will do OP?

[schooldays]

thanks guys - its not often i get praise!!

already i have just had a flash through my mind that i have made a mistake - can you believe that? how am i going to keep him out of my head??

i dont know what to be afraid of as such. think i was more nervious last nite in fact. reading about that madonna syndrome made me freak out a litle and perhaps that is not what is wrong with him but something definately is. he has alot of hurt in him i can see that. i reckon it comes from his childhood and that actually still causes me pain to think of what has caused this behaviour.

but he is a person with a very quick temper - i have witnessed this many many times. he is not violent as such but still the temper is scary with the shaking and the pale face etc. Sometimes i think he has dealt with it and other times i think he is just keeping a lid on it until he gets back where he wants to be. i have actually got a barring order against him in the past so i think the memory of that will be enough to keep him from losing the plot too much or even losing the plot at all.

and then there are such awful stories arent there? about dads committing suicide and killing their kids and ex h's killing there ex wives and i have heard that the most dangerous time for a woman is when she is leaving the relationship.

am so confused about so many things. mostly how do i stop seperating in my head the good guy and the mental one???