Advice needed re children & dads behaviour during access

[Redoubtable]

Need advice please.
Have been in an abusive marriage ended when 'DH' left.
My needle has been reset as to what is appropriate and acceptable behaviour and I need outside advice as to how inappropriate this is.

Huge issues with porn while he was in family home. He left DVDs lying around with pre-school children spelling out title words.
Since he left he has given them iphones/tablets in his new home, on which they have internet access which he doesn't supervise. On one, I found clickable links to non-vanilla porn sites.

DC going to Dads this morning for overnight. As I dressed them, DS told me that last week when they were with Dad, they were downstairs while Dad was upstairs in bed with his new girlfriend (daytime).

DC all under 10 so accept that whatever he does must be OK.

It wont be possible to bring this up with him:- he will say they made a mistake, or that he was tired (very important man, big job, so busy, I'm lazy and wouldn't understand), or that nothing happened so its ok, or he will turn it back on me and equate it to a mistake I may have made.

I fear that (as in marriage) he is pushing the boundaries, trying to a) make unacceptable behaviours seem acceptable by citing how similiar it is to 'normal' behaviour and b)testing how far he can go.

Have no RL support so if I go into stopping access, it will be unbearable. But I will do the right thing.....just what is it?

Tricky situation!

No advice or ideas on this one!

Have you got a solicitor? Can you monitor the phones? He is an arse.

I have recently started (again) on formalising things through a solicitor, hence why I think things are going to get very bad.
'An arse' doesn't quite cover it. He is an extremely abusive man (though very very very charming- to the point where mutual acquaintances still tell me how lovely he is).

Why would I/how could I monitor phones? He has tried videoing or recording our conversations before and is very careful to ask if I am recording him before he goes into one of his rages.

I think this is potentially a serious child protection issue and you need some legal advice. You have concerns that he is neglecting them, exposing them to pornography, goes into 'rages' etc and I think you have to explore those concerns legally rather than thinking you can police your children's access remotely.

When you say 'no RL support' do you mean you rely on him for childcare? Or do you mean that you believe you will be in danger if you challenge him?

Thanks Cogito. I think thats exactly what I was asking...IS this a child protection issue?
Re the porn; I asked SS for advice before (at the time, I was still trying to be uber-reasonable)...their advice was that as a competent parent, I should talk to him about this and explain how unsuitable it was. [Hmm]

Now, I cant be bothered. There's always going to be something and he's an adult FFS. Really? Do I have to explain to him how to parent? Step-by-step?

I dont rely on him for anything WRT childcare. I rely on him to let me/them down if there's something essential that needs to happen e.g me travelling to see ill parent in hospital, ex will agree and withdraw with 'plausible' excuse when I'm up against the wire.

Am I in danger...I would have laughed at the idea before, but lately I have felt uneasy when he has them. I would not put it past him to let local thugs know I was alone at home and that I have cash or other valuables. That way, IF anything happened, he has clean hands, but also has kids safely IYSWIM?

OP you sound really frightened and understandably - not because I think he will do something to you but because he wants you to think that. Your DC sound like they could be being neglected but in ways very hard to proof. I think a solicitor would be a good option but before that I would make a note of things in details for a couple of weeks at least and get as much real evidence as you can. I would not question DC as this could be used against you down the line but if they report something to you make a note and support them as I know you would - just because the info being given is about thier dad it does not diminish how serious it is. Any adult who has a child in thier care should ensure they are not exposed to porn for example.
I do think if he thinks you are on to him, things may get worse and IO would geta plan of action together first before any big confrontation unless you feel your DC and/or yourself are in real danger in which case I would ring the police.
He sounds like he thinks he is above you and can get away with things as a result, he sounds like he likes you to feel rendered helpless. You are not and you sounds like a great Mum who will get through this.

Are you in touch with Women's Aid? They will be able to talk through strategies with you. Also get this book, it has bits about how to deal with contact with an abusive ex.

Personally yes the porn / sex would be enough for me to stop contact. But you need proof so he can't accuse you of just making it up, the spiteful ex etc. Photos of porn lying about, witnesses, talk to hv / gp. Try posting on techy section to get advice about how to track their ipads.

IME SS rely on the fact that one parent is concerned enough about XYZ to phone them, as evidence that you are capable of policing the other parent. (Presumeabley they are too busy dealing with parents who have no responsible parents at all). I had pretty much the same experience as you, I don't think they understand anything about how abusive parents don't actually care about anyone except themselves.

If you feel you are in danger speak to local police station, they should have a domestic violence team and can put your phone number on a quick alert. So even if you just ring 999 and can't say anything they will be round like a shot. Gives you some peace of mind.

Thanks better.
You're right...I even had to learn that I was frightened (sounds daft but if you've been there you'll know what I mean). When you're being gaslighted and demeaned every day, it's like you turn off the fear?

I've never questioned the kids, but I (think I) have a good relationship with them and they tell me stuff when they come home. I note it as much as possible, but there's a lot of it.

The stuff he gets wrong is so obvious .... not eating properly, not changing underwear, not brushing teeth, not putting them to bed, letting them set their own bedtime (???), letting them cross roads alone, no suncream, getting wet at the beach and not drying them, no loo paper. Everything can be justified, as a 'once off' but its the totality thats abusive IYSWIM?

WC Thank you.
I contacted Womens Aid...but I am not being physically abused. And at the time, I wasnt clear about how psychologically abused I had been, it has taken a while for the mist to clear.
They didnt really have any useful advice.
I may get that book but am going to wade through the Lundy book so often linked here. Someone here described 'Water Torture' recently and it's my ex.

Re stopping contact....it will be very distressing for the children, but if needs be....small town and they will 'bump into'him. I dont have proof, the tablet that the links were on 'got dropped' at his and I dont have it anymore.
I threw out all the porn he left behind (some of it the type that would make one gag to look at the cover)
I am due to see GP so will talk to them about this.

I can see why SS would leave it with me, and dont really have a problem with that. But he is so carefully sneaky, that I will need solid proof before I make any accusation.

As for police, well he is well known in this town, and would maintain manly, joshing contact with police station (crate of beer at Christmas, chocolates at Easter, drinking with local superintendent etc). Have been embarrassed to contact them as he is well capable of using 'hysterical, vindictive ex card'.

Then you really do need legal guidance. If he's chummy with police, charming with others and SS are sitting on the fence, then you need proper advice on how to make a case against him.

Yes, thanks Cogito, I've started with the solicitor recently. But that in itself enrages him. As both he and his father warned me not to 'bring solicitors into this' when he left.

So now that I am refusing to talk to him, and want it all by email, it is more evidence of my unreasonableness.

I started the thread really to confirm that I'm not unreasonable and that this (dad+girlfriend in bed upstairs during access) is inappropriate. As I said, it's like my compass has been knocked sideways and stuff that I would never have agreed to, has been normlised IYSWIM?

YA definitely NBU.

Please get legal/SS/GP/police advice.

I think you need to push for contact centre access only.

OP I know just what you mean about turning the fear off. When it came back (when he did) I listened to myself this time, it told me something was very wrong, I was more informed too - lots of great advice from people on here.
The fact he has voiced no solicitors for me says he wants to run things just how he likes it. My ex is still under the impression that having a sol will mean he can gain extra power against me for abusive purposes, he thinks having them write it down makes is real - Im shocked at what they are willing to write but the usual acusation back of me meaning unreasonable has lost its power as it just doesn't have any effect now especially as he is asking for the things the court will not order for him at the moment and that too will diminish for you too. You have every right to only have email communication. Stick to your guns.

I only realised so much was so wrong when I started mentioning snippets here and there to friends.

It was their horror that shocked me.

I did the Freedom Programme and therapy, and attended a DV survivors group, and realised the full extent of what i'd been through.

Redoubtable Your posts make me scared.
When you got to the bit about taking crates of beer to the local police, I was shit scared.
Look at the questions on the risk assessment MARAC form www.domesticviolencelondon.nhs.uk/uploads/files/Accident%20&%20Emergency%20-%20Toolkit%20for%20MARAC.pdf
Notice how many points they give to feeling scared
Keep reading Lundy, and start playing the long game (cards firmly to chest) with as much outside help as you trust and can get on your side.

You're not hysterical. Regardless of what they're doing in the bedroom, the problem is he's not looking after the children. The lax attitude to Internet porn/ supervision is also worrying.

Involve every agency you can. Keep calling SS if they don't act the first time. Tell them all your concerns. They all add up and paint a picture.
I'm glad you're talking to a solicitor. Do you think he and his father told you not o involve solicitors because it would be bad for you?

Thank you. I've been reading your replies during the day but DC business meant I couldn't get on here.

Hissy what would be the 'flag' that says contact centre to you? I'm not being argumentative; I have to be very clear about why and where I stand as any hesitancy/holes in my argument will be found and exploited

betterthan my ex has changed his solicitor from a country gentleman type practice to a sharp young thing one. New chap has had a little punt at bullying me already, which was very interesting when I stood back & looked at it. Ex and he are well matched.
I no longer engage in any chat with Ex at the door....he always asks and attempts conversations there....but I tell him I will email him with my concerns. Of course, he is too busy to read them but that's his time management problem......

arthritic when I first read your post my reaction was 'I must have come across as a drama-llama'. I've never been physically assaulted, never felt he was holding himself back from hitting me.
BUUUUT, he would joke about putting me into the Psych unit, about shooting someone walking around our home in the dark , has tracked my car.
It's insidious, there's no point at which you can go 'there...THAT's unacceptable'. It's all dressed as concern/worry/normalised.

haverer I agree they were concerned for him only when they threatened me re solicitors. But then, in his family and mine, his behaviour is minimised....''he's so stressed with the business'', ''he works so hard''.
My stress/distress is invisible/invalid.

Sorry, meant to add to haverer. I agree it is none of my business what he and GF were doing upstairs. They may have been cutting their toe-nails for all I know (but I do know exH and I know his obsessions and he would see nothing wrong in having sex that the children could walk in on...he and his 'wants' trump them and their 'needs').

Do you think I have enough to go to SS with? As earlier, I've spoken to them before and was brushed away with being the 'competent adult'.
I can see that, to them, this is a non-case; there is no evidence of abuse, there is a concerned parent (potentially a sh*tstirring ex-partner) vs. a pillar of the community type.

Sorry Redoubtable it was me who was not communicating properly.
I meant what I said, and of the three things you mention, two get a point each on the scale for judging serious risk: death threats and stalking

Hmmmm and even now my reaction is
'Nah, clearly I'm not putting this across properly, I looking for drama where there is none'.
Need a bit more work on my own head, yeah?

No, just take things very carefully and talk to people you can trust.

Your Ex sounds a pretty dangerous and twisted man. The veiled death threats and so on are very high up on the list of red flags that would get experts in abusers and stalkers very worried.

And his behaviour towards your Dc is very worrying. All the stuff about not cleaning them, etc., are neglect. But even more than that, the sexual behaviour he displays is actually categorised as sexual abuse. Exposing, or potentially exposing children to pornography, poor sexual boundaries re: shagging his new gf when he should be looking after them, and they could walk in on him, etc., are all considered minor forms of sexual abuse.

You say you are doibting yourself and think you are looking for drama where there is none, well, let me tell you that he sounds really shocking from the outside. Abusers like him completely twist the victim's mind and life until even horrific things can become normal and they find ways to explain or excuse it, because it's mentally easier to do so.

He really doesn't sound fit to have unsupervised access to them. You need to speak again to WA, the police and social services. Make them aware of all his abusive and neglectful behaviours, past and present, however small you consider them to be. Put together, they will no doubt shock you, and the experts will be able to see a pattern and an abuser type in him and his behaviour. You clearly love your kids, but you will fail them if you don't do something about this man ASAP.

I was reading about sociopaths and they do tend to get a sociopath solicitor involved so it is not surprising that your ex has changed his.

Someone once said to me that at the end of the day what a solicitors letter says could have been written by a child in crayon unless it referes to something that has been sancioned by a court of law. I.e. my exp would get his sol to send letters about all the child support he was paying he was paying nothing how many times he has made contact with me directly and I had ignored it he had made contact once and I forwarded to my solicitor and I also replied to him and many other general things that just were not rue - just because he has public money to get a solicitor to put it in writting to me, does not make it true nor something I have to respond to.

The letters flood in from him all the time, he doesn't have to pay for them and knows I do - but I don't have to respond to some of them either as they are things outside of the court directions/ latest order.

I like the keeping cards to the chest advice from arthritic I am a Lundy fan - I found how my exp did things very confusing for a long time - I see it much clearer now thanks to wonderful support and advice on here and Lundy. I can tell from the posts on this thread regarding the evidence that must be got and the pace of taking things that they know how manipulative these people can be. But they don't want people knowing this and thinking bad of them - normal people don't do it then, but people like your ex see themselves as so special they will get away with it and have every reason to be doing it.
It isn't going to be solved overnight but step by step it can be - keep posting and take it seriously - when they see you are on to them it can excalate and if they feel they are `losing' it can get nasty - not to frighten you but just to make sure you get as much help and support as you can.

YY to what oxford said: Put together, they will no doubt shock you, and the experts will be able to see a pattern and an abuser type in him and his behaviour. when I had to put it all down I felt ill and more scared than I had been for a long time - it was horrible to see just what had gone on and sadly continues to go on but I am reducing the impact of it day by day it is all I can do.

OP, love, let's go through your posts and pick out the areas that are UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLY indicative of a seriously abusive, and sick individual, one that should have NO contact with kids alone.

Huge issues with porn while he was in family home. He left DVDs lying around with pre-school children spelling out title words.

Exposing children deliberately to porn of any kind is deemed as child abuse. On pretty much the same level of perv that gets his kicks off kiddy porn.

Since he left he has given them iphones/tablets in his new home, on which they have internet access which he doesn't supervise. On one, I found clickable links to non-vanilla porn sites.

Ditto, see above, he is being wantonly reckless with his children and willingly exposing them to porn. That in itself is a SS matter as he's failing to safeguard his DC.

DC going to Dads this morning for overnight. As I dressed them, DS told me that last week when they were with Dad, they were downstairs while Dad was upstairs in bed with his new girlfriend (daytime).

He was fucking his GF, during the day, during an access visit. That is again child abuse, given the ages of the children, their mobility, and the above porn issues.

DC all under 10 so accept that whatever he does must be OK.

Except they KNOW it's not right, as they mentioned it to you. They are asking for your help.

Yes, thanks Cogito, I've started with the solicitor recently. But that in itself enrages him. As both he and his father warned me not to 'bring solicitors into this' when he left.

He has no respect for you, he has no feelings for you and furthermore threatens and allows/encourages others to intimidate and threaten you if you seek rightful legal counsel.

He is not following the norms of society, he sees that only he is entitled to having HIS needs met, to the exclusion of all others. he doesn't care about anyone or anything except his own sexual/power gratification.

Was he sexually abusive to you too?

Stop access visits, get advice, speak to every bloody agency there is. Your GP, your HV (if you have under 5s) The schools, the police DV unit, SS, everyone and anyone.

Get legal advice on withdrawing access, or insisting that it takes place in a contact centre as he can't be trusted not to abuse them.

I know you have lived with this for a long time, I know that he'd conditioned you to believe that you are the nutter, the freak, and in the wrong, but love, please, look at the replies here, not one of us is saying, chillax, you're making a fuss over nothing.

This is weird shit love. You are the only one that can protect your children from this vile and abusive 'man'.