Looking for your opinions on an argument with h this morning

[anonymous13]

Hi all

This is the argument as it unfolded this morning as dc were getting ready for school.

H: "Don't chase her" (I was going to check whether my neighbour had responded to a text I had sent her about her son walking to school with mine - I wasn't going to send her another text).

Me: "Don't tell me what to do from second to second" (meaning don't micro manage me)

H: (Getting cross) - "Don't tell me what to do every second?" (incredulous and angry) "Shut up" (said horribly). "Fuck off"

I am not sure of the sequence but the main thing is that h's reaction was out of keeping with what had been said as well as cold and horrible.

Me: Something like "Jesus!" and "So you can say what you like to people (h has very bossy / autocratic / critical tendencies) but other people can't. You've got an anger problem."

H to me - and this is what has really upset me: "You've got an arsehole problem"

All of this happened with the dc in the room .

Taking the above at face value and without knowing the background about h and I, I am just wondering what you think about the above. Please be gentle!!

So, would I be right in thinking that you have major communication issues, you've recognised this (including your part in them), thought about what to do, arranged counselling, started counselling (tried other communications tactics on the back of that?) - ie done a lot to define the problem, been willing to recognise your part and find healthy ways in which to make changes to make a better future together?

But he hasn't responded to those attempts, flounced from counselling, and sticks with the old patterns you find increasingly intolerable, and which now occur in front of your DC?

I think what you described in your OP is your 'straw that breaks the camel's back' moment. It's decision time for you. I don't mean LTB immediately, but it could be a good time to think about what you want family life to be like and whether he is actually capable of change. It doesn't sound good from what you have posted. Take all the time you need to think about what you do want in your future. It doesn't have to be more of this.

You're not going to shock him into behaving. Not like that.
He thinks it's fine to talk down to you. Doesn't see a problem with it. He will think 'I don't hate you, I just wish you'd shut the fuck up and accept my authority'.
Your problem is not with how he feels about you, but what he thinks.
He'd treat any woman he was with the same way.

He stonewalls you to punish you for daring to stand up to him? And after he has been abusive/namecalling?

That really isn't on. Particularly given that the dynamic is about him being controlling, and then him being angry and horrible if you object to it. And then remaining angry.

Never apologising is also an issue, as is leaving you to raise or sort it or makes amends.

I don't know what to suggest in terms of tactics, but I think you need to make it crystal clear that you won't stay with him if this continues. Also, make sure he has some consequences. Eg if he won't acknowledge you, don't acknowledge him - no dinner, no washing, spare room, separate outings etc

x-ed with your last.

A trial separation is a sensible way to give yourself the thinking time about your future.

Pictish is spot on.

He is right. You do have an arsehole problem. You live with one.

Well - meditrina the counselling never really lead to us trying different ways of communicating - it didn't get that far, and was totally out of character for h to even come for the 5 or so sessions that he did come for.

We often sleep in separate rooms though I have been sleeping in the same bed as him recently in an effort to come back from our most recent argument (which did not involve name calling but did lead to silence of about a week so not too bad considering!).

Your description of the dynamic is right onefewernow. He is extremely defensive. Had an alcoholic father who left the home when he was 15. He probably learned some of his responses from him.

I think I actually should put a trial separation in place, but the thought of all that it entails feels impossible.

pictish - you are very perceptive. When you say You're not going to shock him into behaving. Not like that - in what way do you think I would get through to him (genuine question)?

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

about 6 hours too late with that comment.
Sorry.

You deserve so much better than him.

I really wish some women would realise their partners are not the boss of them and they are equal to them.

You asked about being called an arsehole.

Personally, it wouldn't bother me that much. It's just the adult version of "poopoo head".

His "arsehole problem" jibe earlier was so weak and so obviously invited the rejoinder I gave earlier that I would have just laughed at it.

But being called a dog is different. To me that is meant to humiliate and dehumanise you and it would really, really upset me if DH ever called me a dog.

Either way, the stonewalling is open and shut emotional abuse and your children seeing that over weeks and months must be a lot worse than hearing him hamfistedly try and fail to call you an arsehole.

You both need to start again with your relationship.
You need to learn to communicate without annimosity.
You need to both sit down one evening, or several evenings, and allow each other to speak without throwing accusations around.

You need to be able to tell each other which words are unacceptable to each other, and which things you do to each other that are not on, such as his stonewalling.
One of the reasons he possibly stonewalls is because he doesnt know the right words to fix things, And sadly neither do you.

Even if you were to leave each other, unless you met someone else who knew how to fix arguments, the same thing would happen.

I am pretty sure there must be books that can help in this situation.

Interesting what Pictish says above - the "I don't hate you I just wish you'd shut the fuck up" mentality. That really does sum it up - my DH would say the same, that he is a loving husband, he's shown me nothing but love and consideration and yet I MAKE him act like a prick, and if I'd just do what he wanted and realise that I should be making him happy, then everything would be fine.

I think you might be in that particular boat OP.

(sorry - same boat as me I mean)

The fact is, marriages can go on like that for years. My parents called each other every name you can think of and worse, and stayed together 50 years. They were NEVER happy, from what I could see.

So good for you for calling him on it. Being called arsehole, and dog, and being told to fuck off, and then the silences, none of that is acceptable.

I used to send texts like yours....often to no response. Stonewalled by text!! He thought I was an arsehole....controlling (no, just trying to communicate and live as a family), etc etc. But when I asked if we should separate.....he'd ignore it. Obviously not that much of an arsehole if u want to stay with me.

To answer you're question, yes he did try to stop the split but took no responsibility at all for his actions. At a time when he could have been "winning me round", the rubbish behaviour continued....and when he arrived to see kids after their bedtime one Sunday night and I pointed out (calmly) that they would be disappointed not to have seen him. He erupted, calling me names and telling me I'm a control freak and I just knew that it really was it. He'd cheated in me too....different from your situation but just another Example of how little respect he had.

That's what this comes down to. Lack of respect.
Personally, I've never called anyone am arsehole, let alone a partner. It sounds like you're tje same.

I decided that if he wouldn't respect me, I'd bloody well respect myself. You mentioned that earlier....how your self respect won't allow it to continue. That's how I felt.

For the poster who said arsehole is adult version if poo pop head....I disagree. having the man that I had just had a child with, shout at me and spit out the words "you're an ARSEHOLE" as I breastfed my baby was one of the most humiliating experiences of my entire life. It was the contempt behind it. Deal breaker.

I'm sorry you're experiencing this. The hurt is clear from your posts.

Unfortunately, I don't think you've quite made the connection yet that he can't change because he doesn't want to. You can't get through to him because there is no incentive for him to want to change. The only thing that someone like this understands is being left. Even protestations of "I'll change" (if he thinks your threat to leave is serious) and an attempt to do just that will be short-lived only for as long as it takes for things to return to normal.

If you actually left, he may come round. I strongly suspect that if you did, you may well find that you prefer life without him in it, however.

Sadly, people like your H mostly prefer to find a new victim than recognise their bad behaviour. It is far easier for him to blame you for being unreasonable, unable to take criticism, lacking in a sense of humour, etc than it is to recognise that his own behaviour is unacceptable. If he's like it with other people as well, his behavioural patterns could be so well entrenched that admitting to them could be only one step removed from something approaching a breakdown because to ditch the pattern of behaviour requires a complete reworking of his personality.

I'm sorry, not easy reading.

I was about to write the same as JoinYourPlayFellows. 'Dog' would upset me much, much more than arsehole. In fact DP regularly calls me that and I regularly return the favour, plus other pleasantries. But we're both fiery people, we have rows but we make up afterwards and apart from arguments, he's 100% respectful and demonstrates this a lot (as do I to him). It's the 'dog' comment that would upset me, plus the stonewalling, which I am physically unable to tolerate.

have0 I would like nothing more than to be able to actually talk properly with h, but he never ever lets it get to the stage where we actually communicate our needs to each other. It may be true that I don't know how to do it, but I still think that this is no excuse for name calling and stonewalling...

I do sometimes wonder if h could be having an affair. Not because there are any clues but because he is SOOO distant from me that he may be getting the intimacy he (presumably) needs from elsewhere?

mamma thanks for your response... did you find your separation difficult (probably a silly question sorry!).. One of the things which scares me the most is the enforced separation from the dc while they are / would be, with h...

In any case I decided that if he wouldn't respect me, I'd bloody well respect myself - is inspiring and I am going to try and take a leaf out of that book!

pictish, if you are around at some point, I am interested in any further thoughts that you have .

Thanks to everyone else too that I haven't mentioned, I really appreciate your thoughts.

Sorry, Dahlen and stowsettler, missed your posts. Thanks for your thoughts too which I am going to ponder! Your are right about deeply entrenched patters of behaviour Dahlen.

Yes, it has been a hard 6 months. I tell you what though, the previous 3 years were harder. The most difficult thong is not being with father of my children. However, in moments when I feel sad about it I remember awful times when he'd mistreated me in front of them and I know that I want better for my dc. My dc are 3 and 1 and I couldn't contemplate their childhoods being spent watching me being belittled, upset and ignored.

I have found a peace and contentment. People at work (who know nothing of what's going on) have commented that I have a buzz about me at the mo. I still have evenings crying, part of me misses him but the alternative is just way, way worse.

It got to a point with me (which you may have reached), that I felt I had no choice left. It had to end, I couldn't have the disrespect and feeling of being hated in my life anymore. Like you said yourself "enough".

The time away from u when they see their dad is surprisingly easier than I thought. The time you spend with them is so much happier that you can get through it. I just remind myself that they're seeing their dad, which makes them happy and that's enough to get me through it.

Thank you mamma. I really admire your courage and am glad you feel more peaceful. I don't know if I feel I have no choice left or not, it's just that I don't think I can go through another protracted silence. I am quite a passive person so I have no idea where to start with any of this or where I would go etc...

Would he leave if you asked him to? That's a place to start....

When it comes to the silence - just carry on as usual and ignore it - best advice I can give. Give him one opportunity to apologise and then ignore the silences.

However this is a short term solution to the immediate problem. Long term he needs a serious shock if he wants to change. Only reaching rock bottom will help him to see his issues in relation to you. I think a trial separation is a good idea.

it will help you to see how much easier life can be on your own and he may see for himself what he has done. you can then try and rebuild if it seems worth it. My guess is that you will enjoy the peace, the harmony with the kids and the freedom.

It sounds to me, from what you have written, that there is a back story of unresolved issues.

What unresolved issues do you think he has with you?
They could be recent, or they could have built up over several years.

If you asked them to write them down and give you the list, do you think he would then open up a bit?

My pov is that you have to start somewhere.