Alcoholic sister - I really need advice (long)

[Callmemadam]

Ok, here goes. My younger sister (40) has been a binge drinker ever since her teens. About 7 years ago it cost her her job, her lover and her life in London and she came down South and moved back home with my mother in a small village. She dried out for 5 years, over which time my mother developed serious cardiac problems and has undergone several major operations. She now has very poor health and is not expected to live for too long. My sister gradually took over the running of the house, saying she was my mums carer, but also started to drink again. This worsened to the point where she was having blackouts, screaming rages and very hostile even when 'sober'. For the last 10 months or so it has been like living on a knife edge for the rest of the family and noone could get near my mum. Finally my mum was rushed into hospital in May, and when she came out was very poorly, and so my other sister and I brought here here, to my house where she has been recovering ever since. She has got much stronger since living here, but wants to return to her own home, but cannot live with my sister as an alcoholic. My sister hit the roof when she found out what I had done, and then proceeded to appear to have a nervouse breakdown, and cried for a week (while drinking about 180 units). I got her to her GP who says she's an alcoholic, I got her to go for an assessment at the Priory, which said she was an alcoholic and needs 28 days detox urgently, and she says she's not going there. She says that she 'is trying to deal with it' and that she 'is trying' to contact AA. She was blind drunk on Sunday, Monday and now tonight. She has started inviting almost complete strangers into my mums house 'to talk'. She has gone around most of the village saying that it is looking after my mum which has caused this, and my mum is distraught that her neighbours should think its her fault. The worst thing is she is in denial about the extent of her drink problem and she doesn't appear to have much inclination to really access help. How much worse can this get? How do you deal with an alcoholic relative? I really really need some advice! Thanks

I feel exactly as though I keep throwing a rope into a raging river and the drowning man won't try and catch the rope: just looks at me...

Cmm, I remember your thread from last year!

Blimey she can really put it away when she wants to can't she? Does she have any sober days? Do you know how her own health is? I mean did the GP run any blood tests on her?

I think you've done such a lot to help her already. You've put her up, tried to help her quit drinking and generally looked out for her. I'm relieved she's not living with your mum any more. Personally I think you have to leave some of this up to her now. Keep your offer open of a place to stay, booze-free, and let her take you up on it if she can stick to your terms.

What more can you do? The rest has to come from her.

CMM

Simply put there is nothing more you can do for your sister. Let her go and do not enable her any more. You have enabled her enough already by taking her to the Priory, taking her to the GP. Doing this for her has not ultimately helped. The will to address her underlying problems that caused her to start drinking (in that something triggered her drinking like this from her teen years) has to come from within her and even if she was to seek both counselling and get detoxed there are no guarantees she will stop drinking. She is on self destruct.

Your main priority now is your own family unit and your own self. You have been deeply affected by your sister's drinking and I would suggest you seek support for your own self if you have not already done so. Al-anon are there to help family members of alcoholics.

Bump?

Just another repeat of what the others have said really - she has to want to help herself. You can do nothing for her until she gets to this point.

Did you get in touch with Al-anon? They are fantastic and provide the most wonderful support and understanding. My step-father was an alchoholic who did several spells in rehap, phases of AA but eventually drank himself to death. My mother didn't realise the extent of his problem when she married him and spent most of their marriage in a cycle of threats of divorce if he didn't sort him self out, he went to AA for a few weeks (although i think he kept on drinking through that time, he just didn't drink at much) then got worse and worse until she threatened to divorce him again. He was never physically abusive (although he came close several times to the point where the neighbours called the police) but he was verbally and mentally cruel to my mother and myself and my siblings. At one point she was prescribed Prozac by the GP to help her cope with him. She went from an amazing, capable, independent woman to a pale shell. Then she found Al-anon and they turned her life around. Instead of helping him into bed and making excuses for him she left him passed out where he fell and just instructed us all to step over him. Al-anon filled her with strength and determination and gave me back my mother.

I know it's hard to hear but at this point, the only person you can help in this situation is you. {{{huge hugs}}}

I just wanted to offer support - my brother is an alcoholic and we as a family have been through so much trying to help him. I feel so bad for my mother who is nearly eighty - I used to tell her to chuck him out but now I'm a mother I can understand how hard it must be to turn away your own child when he is ill. He was living with her for a while but eventually was given a council flat - I'm not sure if he sleeps there or in the park but at least he is out of my mother's house .

Al-anon will help you.

I feel quite choked even writing about this - I do understand how awful and draining it is for you and your family and wish you all well - there are a lot of people in your position.

Its so difficult to reason with an alcoholic and so painful to watch a family member go down this path.
I think your mum should put her foot down and get your sister removed from her house. Your mum has become what they call an "enabler", that is, she wont allow your sister to grow up and take responsibility for her own actions. Until she does, your sister wont change because alcoholics have to hit rock bottom before they are willing to climb back up again.
By "enabling" your sister to be an alcoholic, shes not doing her any favours. I have an alcoholic + personality disordered mother, and I worry about my brothers drinking too. My dad threw one of my brothers our of the house recently after he got drunk and punched another brother. He has been forced to find his own little flat and I think it was a good decision for my dad to make, even though it was really difficult for him because he (we all) worry that my bro wouldn`t be able to cope, but it was really the best thing that could have happened.
So even if she has to get the police involved, I think your mum should force your sister to stand on her own two feet. Its the only way, I think.

so sorry Callie, I just read your second post so my advice about kicking her our doesn`T apply now, But I agree with Atilla, and my general point that you have to stop enabling her to behave like this.

I am sorry to be thick but what can AL-Anon do to help me - how do I get help from them iyswim?

cmm al anon will be able to offer advice on how YOU can get through this. they can offer you support and guidance (if you need it)they can help you with where you stand legally with things and most importantly they can be there to lean on when you need it. watching someone you care about pull themselves apart is not easy and you need support as this affects you and the rest of your family too. contact them, they know what your going through, but what they cant do is stop your sisiter drinking and neither can you, she has to do that herself . stay strong thinking of you

CMM

I would totally agree with the last poster.

I would urge you to call them because they can help you with regards to your sister's drinking.

Their web address is www.al-anonuk.org.uk

Their helpline number is 020 7403 0888 (10am-10pm 365 days a year)

Thank you

Hi Callmemadam - have got alcoholic dm who has been binge drinking for 28 years and would just like to say how much I understand a little of what you must be going through.

I would explore the idea of sectioning her. I had to do this many times with my mum. You may have to be very assertive with the doctors about this (not sure if this has changed, but I remember you have to get 2 doctors to agree to section her). This is the time to put british reserve to one side and really fight to get her in, Get second opinions if needed. Be prepared to spend a couple of days making phone calls and have notes to hand to support your request. With the right help, It might just wake her up to what is happening.

You mentioned that she started drinking during her teens. The drinking isn't the real problem, only the result of the original problem/s. Does anyone know what she is trying to numb out? It may not be that terrible, but it is often not what we feel upset about but HOW we feel upset that may be worth looking at. There is something called 'mindfulness based cognitive therapy' that could be really useful (mbct). It has recently gained nhs excellance so should be available to her.

I echo what many of the posters have said about letting your sister hit her own rock bottom. This is so hard as it sounds like you and your dm are very much at the mercy of whatever your sister is feeling or doing. To find some sort of peace in the chaos that having an alcoholic in the family brings, you have to find a way to walk away from this in some shape or form - even if this means not being in contact for a while to recover or rest from the pain she is causing herself and everyone else, Your rope analogy rings true, some people (it would seem) just don't want to get better. I remember going to a meeting for 'adult children of alcoholics' and ranting about this very issue. One of the people there responded:
'Everyone is doing their best'. Which stopped me in my tracks. It really helped me to begin to forgive my dm. The thought that everyone is/was doing there best at that/this moment with the emotional/spiritual tools they have to hand. To put it very crudely, when my dm gets overwhelmed she drinks - when I get overwhelmed I meditate, go swimming, talk to someone, go for a walk etc. people are doomed to repeat these patterns of behaviour until they find another way.
Please look after yourself in all of this xx

Hi Barking - she is seeing a CBT trained therapist who also specialises and teaches at a very senior level in addiction etc - and he asked her to keep a drink diary but she is incapable of putting the truth on paper: she did have an abortion after a teenage romance many many years ago, but tbh she has a view of herself as worthless and unwanted, of being 'nothing', that just does not relate to her childhood experiences except inasmuch as she has only focused on the negative experiences of her life, and refused to acknowledge the many many positives that came from being beautiful and loved. She is convinced she is worthless, when she means so much to so many, including her nieces and nephews . She is appallingly and chronically jealous of me, her older sister, and despite what she says that is something that has spawned from within her, not from what others think of her.

Hi Callmemadam
I read your post a couple of days ago and have been trying to think of a response to try and help.
I have a close friend who is very much in love with a man who is an alcoholic. She is a counsellor who previously specialized in addictions and he is a psychiatrist!
Even with all her background and experience, she is in incredible pain as she watches him drinking and knows she is powerless to stop him. He has convinced himself that with his medical training and taking his age into account, his body can withstand his drinking for a few more years, then he will stop
You mentioned she had a termination when she was younger - do you think she is stuck on what happened, did she ever have counselling?
another thought it if there is anything she use to like doing that may fire her up again - a sport? I remember reading studies about how some supposedly 'dangerous' sports can be beneficial to people with depression, as it forces them to think only of that one moment they are in, to be completely absorbed - I think they call it 'flow'.
There have also been studies pointing to nature as healer. The closer you are to it ie. gardening, camping,horseriding, swimming in the sea etc. the better the recovery.
These are all just ideas which I sure you have explored to death. I have on occasion fantasised about sending my dm on some sort of survival boot camp for 6 months to get that fire back in the belly feeling for her again - to make her realise what it means to be alive. I guess the meaning of life is the meaning you give to your life, it took me a long time to realise we are not the same person. This is not my battle.
It sounds that the main issue at the moment for you is responibiity? You sound like you are having to carry so much, and alcohol can be so very manipulative. I have found that the strongest response in this situation is no response at all - when my dm is pressing those buttons in me, it would usually result in an argument. It sounds strange but I either give a long pause when the ranting/poor me/ hurtful comment starts - which then leaves the person waiting for the usual reply/pattern. They then may repeat it, which again I pause (this enables them to come face to face with what they are saying to you) and change the subject trying to keep it positive. If they continue trying to fire up the situation I try very compassionately to end the meeting or phone call by saying there is someone at the door, I have to turn the cooker off, do the school run etc. Just trying to keep it really simple and not emotional. You are trying to model the behaviour you want her to copy - or as Gandhi once said ' be the change you want to see in the world'.
The jealousy issue must be very hard to deal with. I hope you realise it isn't you making her feel like this - she has made herself feel like this. If she could just learn to catch the thoughts in time before they manifest into the destructive patterns.... but again this is not your responsibity. This is all a dreadful ramble, I have my ds3 bf and I'm typing with one hand! I just hope you can find some peace in all of this. There is a quote from my meditiation class that I have hung on my wall that I have found really useful:
'The thought manifests as the word
The word manifests as the deed
The deed develops into habit
And habit hardens into character
So watch the thought and its ways
with care. And let it spring from love
Born out of concern for all beings
(Buddha)
Don't know if it helps - I sound like an old hippy bringing Gandhi and Buddha into the post, but all I say is what has helped me. My biggest motivation are my children, I want to give them the best childhood I can as they are all growing up so quickly. I guess what I am trying to say is that this is your time now and your children's. Nothing has really changed with my mum's behaviour, I had to change my reponse and attitude towards it, otherwise the poison will be passed down to the next generation.
xx

just an update really - dh's best friend died today

I'm sorry to hear about that KathH. I found out that a dear alcoholic friend had died when I phoned her and was told that her funeral had already been. She was 33 and had been drunk pretty much full time since she was 8.

It is really really hard getting help for an alcoholic - the hospitals won't touch a drunken person, the police can't do anything, quite often the family cannot take them in because it is too difficult.

I know someone else who died, and, like your dh's friend, he was in hospital for a long time and everyone was hoping hope against hope that he would pull through. Sorry not to be more help.

and sorry, Kath, how awful.

hi i,ve reading,the best thing you can do for a problem drinker, is not enable them!!! i,am a recovering alcoholic & i was brought up by two.alcoholism is an illness,as sad & hard as it is they cannot stop once they have taken one, they may stop for a while but are as bad as ever,it is a horrible illness for them & you it is an addiction,even they if are honest they don,t want to drink or hurt others or themselves, tho it wont seem like that by the way the act!!! if you do, tell them you love them but wont help or be there for them while they are drinking!! by doing that you could save their lives. they only way they might get help is the more doors that close on them the better,they might not get help they might die as my parents did & many others i know. thank god for AA. YOU CAN GET A LOT OF HELP FOR YOURSELF IF YOU GO TO AL-NON. alcohol respects,nothing who, what you are, you can have degree know everything,it is a taker it takes everything,unless the alcoholic not you is hurting enough,thats if they are lucky they might get help before its too late.they don,tget help because they are sure they can control it, or think their way, or it won,t be as bad next time, thats why it is an illness, it makes you think you have control!! suggest AA to them then try & let go of them, & look after yourself, when i thought everyone had let go of me, i got help i am 9yrs sober. take care

Just wanted to say I'm going through a similar thing with my alcoholic brother(50) who lives with my Mother(75). Things have come to a head this week as he's been sober for 3 mths but has started drinking again so we are kicking him out into a bedsit to start with, just to get him away from my mum. Alcoholism is a truly cruel disease and a lot of people don't have much sympathy for the alcoholic, they make unhelpful comments like "they don't have to drink" ect. I feel so awful having to remove my brother from the family home, my mother would never want this as she is so soft . He has been warned several times in the past, so has had many chances.

I have no real advice apart from maybe try a session at Al-Anon I'm going to my first one tomorrow after someone on here recommending it to me, it can certainly do no harm.
Remember you sister will lie and do anything for a drink, alcoholics are full of excuses.

Be tough, I know easier said than done. It's taken me a while but I am now realising than unless they are made to face the consequences of their actions then they have no reason to change their behaviour.

Good luck in getting her some help, hope you get her sorted.
xx

Sorry didn't know this was a Ressurected threat my post was in response to the original post last year I hadn't read the rest .

Hi Callmemadam

How are things going? Thinking of you. x

Hello, just realised old thread.

Hope things better now for your family.

Hi you two - yes old thread but sadly things didn't work out - after chasing her around Beachy Head, getting her into The Priory (£20k) and having her to stay with me yet again on release she drank everything she could find, terrorised my neighbours and finally stole cash from my mother when she got into her house. She's currently living in a caravan on the South Coast with someone else propping her up, and the anger I feel towards her really out to be in front of a counsellor. Can't do it yet as I have other problems (see my thread in health) but one thing is its taught me finally to tell her to f* off and drink on her own.. Thanks for interest, it means a lot. Bignbouncy you did the right thing and I hope it worked. xx