Every man I've ever been involved with has treated me like crap

[VelvetSpoon]

That's really not normal is it?

I have been 'dating' (ha fucking ha) for 4 years, encountered an endless string of fuckwits. The latest one has decided he is 'too busy' to see me, cancelled on me 3 times and forced me to dump him.

But I've realised it's not just all these OD losers, it's all the other relationships/ encounters/ whatever I've had in the years beforehand too. Every single one.

I'm trying to think of any of them that have actually treated me nicely...one ex helped me a lot with house stuff, but he refused to go to most social events with me, and in our 9 month relationship never stayed overnight at my house. So didn't exactly treat me that well. There was only 1 other, who was v considerate when I saw him but used to mess me around a lot in terms of seeing him, and would change/ cancel arrangements at v short notice.

So where do I go wrong?

[watchforthesnail]

bangs head on desk

Justin - just imagine you dont really come into contact with many single men in your day to day life ( and we should all think about this, day to day, how many men do we come in contact with who are single, who could be potentials, not many i would suggest.... its no different for many lone parents) What actual difference do you think it might make if you were achieving the perfect balance of being not too needy and not too capable, and looking perfectly happy. do you really think random men would be 'flocking' around the OP while she buys milk from the corner shop, or takes her kids to the dentists or something....
really?

[garlicbargain]

Thanks for all the lovely feedback! //&#9829 //&#9829 //&#9829

Velvet, I disagree with everybody who's made noises along the lines of "don't be so harsh", "give him another chance", etc, because that's the sort of thing that creates the problem in the first place. And what snail's just posted.

I agree with those who've suggested reviewing your profile and, particularly, applying very strong filters to your prospective dates. On the profile front, see if you can hone it to a perfect representation of who YOU are, completely without reference to what you believe is considered 'attractive' or 'appealing'. Be forthright about what you want, too. None of this will protect you from fuckwits, liars and abusers, but it ought to narrow the field. Have you ever thought of applying to one of those 'exclusive' dating agencies? They're expensive - I don't know if they're any good, but any that have been in business for a while with high fees must have something going for them, and be able to supply references.

Also, don't forget you can just go out with affable fuckwits for the laughs and some sex, if you feel like it. You don't owe them anything but basic human respect.

[CuChullain]

I guess it kind of depends on the nature of how he cancelled the date. I would not be impressed with a "Sorry, something came up, will call you later" type of thing but it is possible to cancel a date, apologise and offer an alternatve day to meet without too much offence being casued. I am self employed, and although most of the time I can predict my work loads and plan my social life around it occasionally things to go bat shit crazy and I have had to cancel everything while I firefight whatever the urgent issue is and keep my clients happy. I hate it when it happens, especially if I feel I am letting people down at the last minute but work is work, especially in the current climate.

[BeCool]

I have a single male friend, professional, nice looking, interesting, generous. On paper, a "good catch". DESPERATE to fall in love and have a family the whole 12 years I have known him.

However, he dates "beautiful women" - he judges women purely by their looks - oh the pretty girls). It's quite astonishing. As a group we would often sit up into the night talking, debating, laughing, drinking wine with a bit of intellectual discourse etc, but the women he would date just weren't up to it. Then he wonders why he can't find love and why all this dating is so expensive - he will do the expensive restaurant first date thing. He doesn't get it that judging people by how they look isn't a great indication of romantic compatibility. He would call himself a feminist but he does actually feel like buying an expensive meal (on his insistence) entitles him to something in return (not sex per se but he wouldnt say no and he expects at least a 2nd date)- FFS!

Now in his mid-40's he's dating younger and younger women. 26 years old is a common number.

I just don't get why he is such a total fuckwit when it comes to romance, when his issues are so very obvious to all around him (never dating women of his age range and intellectual ability, going purely for 'looks' and its all fake).

He'll be on dating websites, but don't worry ladies we will all be too old for him.

OP I have no wisdom at this point. But you are not alone. And my friend is 'still out there'. I don't know if I could ever www date again - I'm single again now too.

[garlicbargain]

BeCool, what does your friend say when you pull him up on this superficiality of his?

[CuChullain]

Somehow you are giving off either a needy vibe or a too capable vibe. The needy one scares men off and the too capable attracts the needy men.

Have to disagree with you on the last bit of that statement JBM. Agree that neediness is not an attractive trait to a bloke but I think capable women are more likely to attract confident capable blokes rather then needy ones!

My 0.02$ anyway!

[LessMissAbs]

Yes, if someone cancels a date multiple times, theres no way back. You were right to dump, as it would only be more of the same, so don't degrade yourself by giving him endless chances.

I have asked in the past about their single friends/ relatives, in case they might know anyone to introduce me to, however their response was they don't consider any of the single men they know good enough for me

This sounds as though theres something wrong with you but actually I doubt it. If I wasn't with DH, I would be thinking much the same. I don't think I've met one really nice single man in years. OK, I'm not looking, but nevertheless I've encountered many single men socially, and they have all mainly been putting it politely not relationship material for a decent, well educated woman. Even if you ignore the lack of physical appeal (bald, fat and wrinkled), the unhealthy habits such as excessive drinking and lack of exercise, the lack of well paid job, stable career or home ownership, the inability to spell or even pronounce the English language reasonably accurately, then theres the inability to create an empathy with a member of the opposite sex to consider. And even if you bypass all those faults, theres the ones who are single because they cheat, or are abusive, or are just impossible to live with.

If I was single, I probably wouldn't be attracted to anyone who wasn't a fellow professional and interested in sports, who was of the same standard of looks as myself. Otherwise, you're kind of just forcing yourself to be attracted to someone who is less than ideal for the sake of not being single any more. And there can only be very single few doctors, dentists and lawyers around.

And why are these single older men so arrogant? I've got a bald as a coot odd looking man on my FB right now who is advertising himself as single and keeps sending all his female friends pms in the hope of getting attention getting a shag. From the way he writes, it is obvious he considers himself quite a catch, not least because he owns a small poky flat in a rough part of town! Yet his only hope really is coming across as a nice, decent, modest guy, because cocky, arrogant self obsessed men don't tend to attract nice women.

Even in my twenties when there were more decent single men, finding one was still hard. So in summary OP, no I don't think its you at all, I don't think you should lower your standards and I think if anything the fact you have not paired up with one of these weird and odd creatures is probably a positive sign about you if anything.

[niceupthedance]

BeCool I know a guy like that. He's 33 and fully intends to (and thinks he will) end up marrying a 20 year old model. Like outward appearances are all that matters. I guess a lot of men operate on this basis. I don't really understand it.

[VelvetSpoon]

Garlic, I have been quite laissez-faire in terms of men in the past, made lots of compromises and excuses. I have been much stricter in my criteria in the last year, and there has been some benefit. The man I've mentioned was far more on my wavelength than anyone I've dated in a number of years.

I do think my dating profile now is me, as much as it can be. I won't link to it because of the adverse comments I got when I did this once previously, but there's a photo of me on here so you can see I look normal, no supermodel but then tbf none of the men are either :)

Not sure I can afford the exclusive agencies, maybe I will start saving...

[watchforthesnail]

I have a man who has chased me for years, he said to me this weekend he knows hes very attractive as he only sleeps with goodlooking women, 9's and 10's.
And that hes had so many one night stands.

I did point out that maybe if he was such a god, these women would be coming back more than once.....

and that any looks he has does not compenstate for his shockingly arrogant personality, and it is for that reason ( and one of many) why i will not date him. he gets cross at me for that..... apparently im frustrating :)

Hes 37 and will only date women in their 20's who are a size 10 or smaller.

im neither :)

anyway - point is, just as some of the above posters have said. The pool of decent, single men, as you get older, gets smaller and smaller ( think i said that a few pages back)

[BeCool]

garlic not much he says "I know I know" and then does the same shit. Over. And over. And over. It's not just me who pulled him up about it - other female friends too.

I don't see him much any more (and in part because of this behaviour which became too depressing to engage with) - but he represents to me, how even the supposed 'good guys' can be totally lost, confused, fucked up.

I (and others) can see how happy he would/could be with a woman of his own intellect and age. But its all about the looks!

In dating, you really do need all your wits about you. Fuck wits come in every disguise

[mrscynical]

Well I can see that him cancelling due to work commitments may be plausible so your dumping actions could be viewed as premature, however, as you have young(ish) children I assume that arranging for them to be minded is another complication that can make you want to give up.

The fact that another guy did not want to stay overnight at your place is ultimately for the best as he then never had to be a 'proper' boyfriend in front of your kids.

Unfortunately dating after the age of 40 when you have children is not easy and not always down to the men. The complications of life in general makes you less tolerant to those who can't keep to plans.

I had to dump a lovely guy once just because I worked weekdays and he worked at weekends. Time together was minimal and it was just not what I wanted. I have also dumped plenty of twats though too!

[VelvetSpoon]

My children aren't young, they are 15 and 12. I had a free weekend as they were at their dads. The issue was not cancelling, more the repeated cancellation/ postponement.

The boyfriend I had who wouldn't stay over - that was 14 years ago when my eldest child was a toddler, his refusal wasn't to do with my son who was around him a lot anyway, just one of various issues he had.

[VelvetSpoon]

Sorry just to be clear in my last post, the boyfriend's issues were with staying over, he had no issue with my son. Realise that it sounded a bit as though my son was the issue!

[mrscynical]

But because you had a free weekend, which the (ex) boyfriend then cancelled/postponed, makes it more of a pain the arse for you. If you did not have kids and had every weekend free then you probably would not have minded so much, rescheduled and would still be dating him. I am only saying that the precious time whereby single mums have dating/romantic opportunities make it a much bigger deal that it does for those who don't and therefore more of a letdown when plans go awry.

Velvet - I am on your side in all this. I know how difficult it is and how much bigger the disappointments can be. Been there countless times.

Seeing as you have a professional career and live in a nice part of London have you considered the more upmarket dating clubs/dinner event type companies. I guess that men signed up to such an agency may be a bit more serious about looking for a relationship and could also be professional in their line of work?

[watchforthesnail]

it is incredibly difficult, i do think people who havent done it really dont quite understand how hard it can be.

Upmarket dating... thats maybe worth a try, but very expensive if it doesnt work out? but then again, maybe its worth a shot.

With regards to different sites, ive used them all, from the most expensive, to the free ones, and ive not found much difference, other than the ones on the more expensive ones seem to have more reasons for being long term singles... i know that sounds harsh, but thats just my experience.

[garlicbargain]

Ooh, I'd forgotten about the 'dining clubs' in London! I did go to a few of those, way back when. They were OK. There are clubs that do activity breaks, holidays, all sorts of things. At least you get to see people face to face :)

[ofmiceandmen]

Just putting on my flame proof vest as I enter the fray.

Velvet I have no idea what your other images on your profile look like but if your MN image is the tone, then i think you may be sending out a 'enjoy life' - aka 'she has a good time'.
Not bad in itself, but (this will sound so old fashioned) - sometimes you want to just be less glam and more YOU. surely you are not go go go all the time.

Male Feedback- personality bubbly, attractive and would certainly not let you down on the having laughs at a bar. all good traits, but when a chap is looking to settle down he kinda wants that but also wants to know there's affection and waking up in an old T-shirt and just being ok with it.

You look like a challenge- and we all know who loves a challenge - the idiots.

I find most dating site images and comments are just an extension of Facebook pages in that it's the highlight rather than the real person.

OK flame suit on...

Just a mans feedback.

[ofmiceandmen]

Oh did i mention I chose some of the worst phrases - 'has a good time' did not refer to any "the deed" related activities.
More has a good night out with the girls.

(Arghh am I digging deeper) ok - backing away slowly - no sudden movements - drat! I showed teeth.. Run!!

[VelvetSpoon]

No flame-proof suit required :) I have no objection to constructive criticism/advice.

I don't do less glam, tbh, and I've always been quite open about that on my profiles. I wear a fair bit of make up, and I adore clothes and shoes. I don't spend huge amounts of time or money (I dye my own hair, do my own fake tan, buy most of my clothes in the sales/Primark, so I'm not some financially high maintenance TOWIE type).

I fully appreciate a man who likes the natural look isn't going to be interested in me, but I don't think that all men are looking for a natural beauty - my mum was far more glam than I will ever be, and met (and was v happy with) my dad.

And I am a challenge to a lot of men, I fully acknowledge that. But I think that's as much if not more because of my job and financial position than how I look. And I'm not going to change my job, or (as one date once suggested) sell my house and buy a smaller one, purely to get a relationship!

[ofmiceandmen]

That Velvet would be a lovely profile description.

Sadly dating sites are largely about looks for most people so I understand why you face the hurdle.

No problem with being glam at all. and It's not that men who like natural won't be attracted, they will. But the thing about settling down is it is usually accompanied by a desire to want less drama. So letting them know that they get all the benefits of glam without the drama so often associated with it will do your cause no harm.

[ofmiceandmen]

For what it's worth - don't think your financial clout nor job would put off someone who is genuinely looking to settle down.

The 'Ego rush' knobs however would feel you were stealing the lime light.

I think most/some men would proudly flaunt a successful woman. 'She chose me' kinda thing. (aka- I can handle that) and vice versa.

Good luck! frankly -you don't need it - 'once more unto the breach'

[garlicbargain]

I would not associate the posts you write here with the picture on your profile.

I haven't interrogated myself about this; I suspect it's all about snap judgements made on a single photo. I wouldn't want a date with anybody who'd made a decision based on one photo! I'm mentioning it because, I dunno, perhaps your presentation's all "bubbly" (awful word, implies airhead) rather than conveying multiple aspects of your character?

I'm not criticising you, Velvet. I haven't seen your profile, I've not given the matter much thought, and there's no suggestion you're doing anything wrong. Just thought I'd throw it out here in case it has any resonance.

[VelvetSpoon]

No, I know I don't look like the job I do - if that makes sense. If people think of lawyers, they tend to think in stereotypes, of some slightly cats bum faced sober suited woman. And that isn't me in the slightest, never has been. Which can work against me; when I was younger (and admitted to the job I do, which wasn't often) people didn't believe me. My own clients walked past me at court. I suppose I don't look as intelligent as I am (if intelligence can 'look' a particular way!).

But then again, I'm fiercely proud of my working class roots, can't be doing with faux intellectual convos (would rather be talking football or analysing the behaviours in CBB). So I'm not the stereotypical lawyer in personality really either, not just looks.

[arsenaltilidie]

more likely it would result in me never even getting a date!

The rules are meant to emulate a confident woman who is nice but doesn't tolerate shit.
How do you think they will result in no one dating you??