Every man I've ever been involved with has treated me like crap

[VelvetSpoon]

That's really not normal is it?

I have been 'dating' (ha fucking ha) for 4 years, encountered an endless string of fuckwits. The latest one has decided he is 'too busy' to see me, cancelled on me 3 times and forced me to dump him.

But I've realised it's not just all these OD losers, it's all the other relationships/ encounters/ whatever I've had in the years beforehand too. Every single one.

I'm trying to think of any of them that have actually treated me nicely...one ex helped me a lot with house stuff, but he refused to go to most social events with me, and in our 9 month relationship never stayed overnight at my house. So didn't exactly treat me that well. There was only 1 other, who was v considerate when I saw him but used to mess me around a lot in terms of seeing him, and would change/ cancel arrangements at v short notice.

So where do I go wrong?

[arsenaltilidie]

Follow 'The Rules' and that should help weed out the nasties.

[VelvetSpoon]

I've never dated anyone at the same educational level as me, I've never had any interest from men with degrees (although tbh that doesn't much bother me).

The guy I dumped today earned far more than me, is very career-orientated, successful, etc. I thought this would be a good thing, however this meant he had no free time to see me (and cancelled on me at short notice), hence dumping.

[Bant]

Maybe you should try dating graduates then?

[VelvetSpoon]

I could follow the Rules all I like (I wouldn't cos I think they're crap) but it won't make any difference to the men I attract, except it might get rid of them slightly quicker. Or more likely it would result in me never even getting a date!

[garlicbargain]

Hmmm! Personal ramble alert:-

Before I was re-structured by a fearsome combination of therapy + MN, I used to have admirers like my cat's got fleas . Very 'pleasing', I was. Had it finessed: I looked right, walked right, had the right lifestyle, tons of 'right'ness. I cringe to think of it

To cut ten years of introspection down to a short paragraph, I was the personification of "template woman" for a very large sector of the kind of men who objectify women, seeing partners more or less as useful accessories. None of them really knew who I was, nor wanted to. It goes without saying that all these men were sexist to one degree or another, and the majority were abusive. I let them become abusive - god help me, I was proud of 'understanding men'. That phrase is only ever used by women who know how to please abusers.

So. I am restructured. I'm more 'me self', which is nice. I have a much sounder sense of what I'm worth - what every individual is worth - and an amazing awareness of genuinely nice men, whom I barely even recognised pre-therapy. As a dating strategy, this is dismal Now I'm not playing Template Woman, I'm no longer besieged by eager sexists, and I fuck idiots off straight away instead of tiptoeing round their precious male egos.

However, I am almost 60, very poor, unhealthy, and living in the back of beyond. I seriously don't believe my new attitude would have stopped me dating if I'd got on with it sooner - I would have dated less, but much more successfully. All of which is a long-winded way of saying: raise the bar, OP, a lot! Don't waste your wonderful time on dickheads, their egos are not your problem. And have fun :)

[Spree]

Garlicbargain - a fantastic piece of advice

[shootfromthehip]

Fantastic post Garlic. I hope you find happiness. OP, men can smell desperation (in this case the desire to have a successful relationship). That will get rid of weak men. You have to look at this whole thing as an advanced filtering process and you just haven't met one that can really value you yet. Can you be introduced to people through friends rather than the internet...?

[TiredDog]

I love garlic's post.

I don't wish to thread hijack but this thread struck a chord with me. 4th post into the thread...'patience' says its because there 'a lot of fuckwits'

I think that is very true. At my age (spying 50 approaching rapidly) I think there are a lot of people who are single because they are fuckwits. I'm single... I swear I'm not a fuckwit. . So the single 40+are not all fuckwits but you do have to step around them a lot.

So my response to the OP is its not you...it's the fuckwits. However where does that leave us older ladies who don't want a fuckwit. The pool is small.

[ALittleStranger]

It's not just fuckwits. The OP posts a lot and she's right that the experiences that happen to her are unusual. I'm always a big fan of a bit of introspection and I hope it's useful. There's some good advice here about knowing when to cut off.

[VelvetSpoon]

Garlic, some of what you say resonates with me. I have probably met 2 men in my 41 years who liked me for my brain and personality - the rest just liked how I looked. I am apparently very clever (not clever enough to meet any nice men but hey) and have a decent personality, but no-one wants to know about that. When I was in my 20s I lied about my job, said I was a secretary not a lawyer (no offence to secretaries intended) because men thought I was snobby and stuck up otherwise. I have stopped doing that now though.

As for being introduced to friends, most of them don't know any single men (I live in an area where everyone is married - I was/am the only single parent in my DS's year at school!) and the few who do know any single guys say they are in no way good enough for me....

[YoniBottsBumgina]

Oh garlic I love you for that post. The "template woman" thing is so spot on, also the "understanding men" thing. I've wanted to put this into words so many times and now you have done it much better than I could have!

OP have you thought about doing the freedom project at all? It's designed for women who keep having unhealthy relationships and should help you to attract healthy ones instead.

[TiredDog]

Velvet Is having a bloke really important to you? I've concluded accepting being single is the only safe way to operate ( my life is currently very complicated and I'm not following my own device but that's another thread)

[watchforthesnail]

tireddog- i think you have hit the nail on the head, the pool of men gets smaller and smaller as you get older...with lots of the good ones staying married ( or being gay) thus you are dating from a pool with a higher percentage of fuckwits.

garlic - i do also understand what you are saying and have been through a similar thing the last 5 years myself. It doesnt stop people being arses, but it does mean i cut if off very very quickly. Married friends and indeed things when i post on here, usually tell me to give people more of a chance, or come up with excuses for shit behaviour, but im not going to do that for the sake of not being single.

yoni - the op doesnt keep having bad relatoinships, shes not getting to the relationship stage.. if she were that might be a good idea but this is bad treatment from men who are at the 1-3 date stage. where they might not show much of their true colours...

[Emptychairs]

I agree with a way back post about "being mean".
For me this means no longer being a people pleaser.
Dh1 stayed a bachelor, dh2 suddenly morphed into an ea control freak who spousified his dd. in between I was lp for 8 years, practically no dating at that time, until encouraged by friends to find a partner online.
"Being mean" has meant that I no longer tolerate any of dh selfishness that I can't match with own selfishness. He is slowly coming round to the idea I have rights, privileges of my own. I've taken up driving again to feel empowered and refuse to back down and tolerate bad manners or put downs. God forgive me, but it is a bit like training a pet...
All those women who follow Rules or have own strategies put a great of deal of time and work into it (I admire dsd for her social skills and maximum me time, although I drip feed a bit of feminist lore at times) and I have come to realize that no man will willingly put your needs before his wants so you have to work really hard to convince him otherwise.
Sorry to ramble, been there. Not going back.

[watchforthesnail]

empty - i dont buy the ' having to train them and slowly they get used to the fact that i am a person' ( and really, thats treating someone like crap, just like the OP is saying....)

bollocks to that, i wouldnt be with someone i had to do that with.... maybe thats why im cronically single.

[Emptychairs]

Watchforthesnail,
I admit that usually I'm the "whatever" type and will move on (divorced dh1 pretty quickly) and although I did meet men occasionally during my lp yrs, I didn't think they were worth the effort.
Dh2 literally caught me off guard, after posting here I soon realized he was trying on ea for size. I do think a lot of men are like this, spoiled, selfish bastards I mean, and if for whatever reason we stay with them then it is up to us to put in a great amount of self assertiveness and make it clear to them that its not on. This is the effort I mean, I can't change dh but I can stop enabling him. I can take him to couple counseling and let therapist do some work too, but work it is I'm afraid, any way you look at it.
Of course I feel like OP. oh why can't men just be naturally kind and considerate to me? But they're not, so I'm doing things that I sincerely hope will make my relationship more like the one I need and want.

[watchforthesnail]

Goodluck with that empty.

But i think the OP is dumping these men because they are shits, shes not staying with them..... shes just despairing that the majority of the men she comes across are not all that nice to her.

[VelvetSpoon]

I don't think the freedom project would really benefit me - I had one abusive relationship, but none that were abusive (though they weren't great) before or after that. Tbh I don't attract abusers (apart from that one), I just generally don't attract men who value me sufficiently.

I would like a man in my life, but I don't think I'm desperate to find one. I have spent more of my adult life single than in a relationship, so I am used to it, and bumble along fairly happily most of the time.

I am good at seeing the signs I think. I would just like to meet men who were nicer to me. For once to be dumping someone saying 'x is nice and treats me well but it's just not quite right' for example rather than having to dump them because they behaved badly.

[obviouslyneedsupernanny]

I recommend you read The Man Diet by Zoe Strimpel

[LessMissAbs]

Garlic, some of what you say resonates with me. I have probably met 2 men in my 41 years who liked me for my brain and personality - the rest just liked how I looked. I am apparently very clever (not clever enough to meet any nice men but hey) and have a decent personality, but no-one wants to know about that

I have observed several different types of men (personal observations, might be utter drivel):

• those that get together with the woman they'll marry from an early age and don't split up and are all round decent blokes
  

• those that find a girlfriend who isn't really on the same level as them educationally, string her along a bit and only get more serious when their friends are getting married, etc. Some of them pretend to be single or go through phases of being single even when living together
  

• eternal bachelors
  

Unfortunately I've encountered plenty of male would-be cheats. I'm not single and I don't do anything to encourage them, but in fact being married is a plus point for this type. They want to have the quiet little unchallenging girlfriend/wife at home and affairs with women more on a par with them but without the risk of being dumped for bad behaviour. Its sad I think when men turn into creeps.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

The freedom project isn't just for abusive relationships though, it is for all forms of unhealthy relationships which not being valued is. It might be unsuitable, but it might be good - worth a google at least.

[watchforthesnail]

yoni - but they arent even relationships...... the op is dumping them when they show signs of being arses, so shes acting on it.

shes just, as i read it fed up with not meeting anyone that treats her decently.

I have similar experiences to the OP, i cut them off, but that in itself doesnt stop it happening... and it is exhausting and makes you wonder why it happen.

[Bant]

Velvet - I don't quite understand what you're looking for from this thread. Several people have made suggestions - the Freedom program, following the Rules, and on other similar threads you've started they have made some ridiculous suggestions, but some possibly valid ones.

Yes, everyone agrees that meeting decent men in their 40s is difficult, especially online. But you just seem to dismiss or ignore anyones suggestions for what you can do.

If, as you say, you've never dated a graduate, and you keep meeting men who are dismissive of your profession, then it's obvious you are meeting knobends. So change the men you meet. Look for graduates only, who will be less intimidated by your job. Screen out men without a degree (yes I know, people without a degree are lovely too, but there seems to be a theme here)

Try and write a completely different OD profile with different photos and text. You're attractive and interesting, use professional photos of you in a suit, you on a beach, something like that. Read 'The Rules' and try and apply them rather than just saying they're not for you. Go on the Freedom program.

Lots of people have made suggestions and you keep saying 'that's not for me' and then coming back a few weeks later and bemoaning your lack of success again.

[VelvetSpoon]

I'll have a look at the Freedom project but I don't think it will help really. I'm rejecting men at the outset for treating me badly, or for showing red flags already, problem is that's every man I meet.

Maybe there just are no nice ones? Certainly I don't attract any of them.

[ALittleStranger]

It's just offensive to say there are no nice men, is a lazy cop out and ignores the experience of scores of other people.