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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Women who leave their children

64 replies

sandyballs · 12/02/2004 16:29

Not being judgemental here, just curious to have a MN perspective.

My brother has recently left his wife and two young children and moved in with a woman he describes as his soul mate. She is also married, has four children under 10, the youngest is 3, and she has left them with her husband to live with my brother.

I just find it incredibly hard to get my head round the fact that she has left her babies. I know my brother has done exactly the same but it just seems worse for a mum to do that than a dad.

My brother gave her the option of bringing them - it wasn't a "them or me" situation, he was willing to take them all on but she chose to leave them and now only sees them once a week.

I'm trying hard to get to know her because she has become so important to my brother and is obviously coming to lots of family gatherings, and I'm trying very hard not to judge her as I don't know what her marriage was like or how unhappy she was and I don't feel I know her well enough to probe just yet, but the thought of leaving my DDs and just seeing them once a week is horrific.

Has anyone here had any experience of this.
By the way, her mum left her when she was tiny - so wouldn't that make you think that she would try so hard not to put her kids throught he same thing. I'm very confused!

OP posts:
Tinker · 12/02/2004 16:35

There was a programme about this once, presumably because it is so rare. Having said that, I know of 2 cases where this has happened. I suppose it's the old women are natural carers argument but I can't believe that so many men can walk out on their children either. In fact, since women do seem to have more of the childcare burden, it's, perhaps, surprising that more don't walk away.

Perhaps because of her early experiences, your brother's new partner has doubts about what a mother's role is.

carla · 12/02/2004 16:37

Also totally non judgemental here, but I couldn't do it. It would ruin my life, whatever the circumstances.

Northerner · 12/02/2004 16:45

Sandyballs I totally agree with what tyou are saying. It is beyond comprehension IMO. My MIL didn't raise dh and his brother. She divorced their Father when thery were 7 and 9 and they went to live with their Dad and his new wife (she was the cause of the break up)This really coloured my judgement of her, even more so after I became a Mother myself. I would never do it no matter what the circumstances. Most woman would fight hammer, tooth and nail for their kids so to hear of some women willingly leaving them is hard to swallow IMO. I know this doesn't help you and your relationship with her, and she might be a really nice person. But it would always be in the back of my mind that she'd left her kids IYKWIM!

arabella2 · 12/02/2004 16:46

I once read an article somewhere that was saying that women could be incredibly unhappy in a relationship and sometimes not have the strength to go through "getting their children away from their husbands" as well as just leaving so they went for the option of leaving themselves without the kids. However in lots of these cases the mother never saw the children - at least she is seeing hers once a week.
Maybe just as abusers have been abused themselves, she was left so she is repeating the pattern and leavning her own kids.
Off at a tangent but did anybody see ER last night where that woman set fire to herself because the dad was going to have custody of her children until the social workers could sort out what kind of problems she had... that was really shocking. Couldn't help thinking that the option of your kids being with their caring dad while you tried to sort out your own life (and you could see them regularly) was somewhat better than committing suicide - but then she must have been unhinged at the time.

Slinky · 12/02/2004 16:48

My DH's mum left him and his sister when they were young (6 & 7) - and she never even had the guts to tell them! Told them she was going for a walk, then never came back!

Only came back on the scene a few years later when things went to pot and Social Services were planning to take them into care.

Relationship is now VERY strained - hasn't spoken to her in over a year - she writes letters to him telling him that she doesn't need him (or me and kids) in her life!

I don't claim to the World's Best Mother but have to say, I'm doing a b**dy sight better than she ever did!

sandyballs · 12/02/2004 16:57

It just seems incredibly selfish doesn't it? There they are, shacked up in their little love nest, whilst six kids under 10 years old have had their family life ripped apart.

Northerner - it is definitely clouding my relationship with her because, as you say, it's always at the back of my mind that she left her little ones.

I think the fact that she has four children makes it worse. Being a mum is a very difficult role and I don't think anyone is really prepared for it until it happens to them. I can understand someone having one child, realising how hard it is and, although they love them, they perhaps miss their old life and maybe regret going down the parenthood route, but to have four of them!
I think of people with that many kids as earth mothers - someone who really relishes all the ups and downs of family life.

OP posts:
kaz33 · 12/02/2004 17:03

DP's mum left when he was 12, shacked up with an 18 year old. Needless to say didn't last. But what he finds hard to understand is why after that she was totally uninterested in her 3 kids, even though she at one point lived in the same village and used to wave to them as they went on the bus to school. Never met her, as DP has only recently just contacted his sisters who he has not seen for 20 years.... but thats another story.

Trifle · 12/02/2004 19:40

My dp and I always say that we'd argue over who had the children if we split up because neither of us would want them!

hmb · 12/02/2004 19:45

I find it hard to understand how anyone, male or female, can walk away from their children. Dh's father walked out on them, and didn't contact them for 3 years!

That said, I suppose that some people can get into such an awful situation that this sort of thing can happen (drugs, other major social probelms). Seems so awfully sad.

stupidgirl · 12/02/2004 22:45

When I was 14 I started looking after a 7yr old girl and her 11yr old brother after school. One day, when I had been looking aftre them for a few months, I picked the little girl up at school, took her home and did whatever we did until her father got home at 6pm (mum working shifts). Only he didn't turn up. About an hour after he was due back I phoned the kids' mum at work and she admitted that she wasn't sure whether he would. They had had an argument that morning and he had left her. She didn't bother to tell me. Anyway, getting to the point...their break up was very messy and unpleasant.

They were going through the custody battle when she came to the house to pay me and got chatting to my mum. It turns out that he had told her he wanted custody, she said no, went away and thought about it, and decided that she would let him have them after all. She went to him to tell him and he said he'd changed his mind too and didn't want them. Neither of them actually wanted their own children It was heart breaking and the kids were very aware of everything that was going on. From what I could gather she never wanted children and had them for him. She very obviously wasn't maternal and just didn't really seem very interested. Very, very sad all round.

I can't imagine being parted from my children, and I wouldn't voluntarily leave them for anything. I do find it very hard to accept any woman that could. And I do think it's different for men. Men haven't carried them for 9 months and given birth to them. Men just don't have the same bond as women - sorry if that offends anyone, but that is what I believe.

polly28 · 12/02/2004 22:55

my dh's mum left him and his brother when they were 5 and 7.She totally cut herself off from them and only "found" them twenty four years later when we were about to have our daughter(12yrs ago).

Men being men,my dh and bil don't want to talk about the past,have never brought up the fact that she disappeared for all those years!
She is now married ,My dd was a bridesmaid 9 years ago and we all act like everything is normal.How weird is that!

aloha · 12/02/2004 23:25

I don't understand. You would get my son over my dead body. It's probably to do with her own upbringing...but no, I don't understand. Horrible. So scarring for the children. I don't think I could bear to talk to her much, personally. I know that's not nice, but I would find her behaviour so freakish I don't know where I'd start.

Clarinet60 · 12/02/2004 23:30

This happened to me when I was 4, for very different reasons. I never regained the closeness with my mum as an adult - it was the end of the essence of the relationship, but I'm sure she didn't know that at the time. I think she thought it would be just for a few months or so, then months turned into years, etc.

Clarinet60 · 12/02/2004 23:31

I agree with you aloha, I'd find it very difficult to relate to this woman.

Clarinet60 · 12/02/2004 23:32

I turned over to watch ER at the precise moment the mother set herself on fire. It was utterly harrowing.

carla · 12/02/2004 23:36

Droile, don't answer if you don't want to, but when did you get back together again?

stupidgirl · 12/02/2004 23:48

I watched ER too. It was horrifying. What upset me is that her son saw it. That poor little boy (sorry, I do know it's not real...)

susanmt · 12/02/2004 23:58

This is pretty close to my heart at the moment. This could be pure stream of consciousness, so forgive me in advance if I ramble.

When I was 12, my sister 10 and my brother 4, my Mum left us and went to live with my Dad's best friend. He left his 2 sons, aged 10 and 7, as well.
I had counselling for it when Iwas a student but recently have developed severe PND and overdosed, and found myself in the psychiatrists office, and he has been taking me through it again, as it is this which seems to be at the root of my problems.

Basically I cannot fathom why any woman would abandon her children. I am afraid that I see it as a terribly, terribly selfish thing to do. I don't understand why a man would either, but I am not a man or a father and so can't judge that, but I am a woman and a mother, and a mother who was abandoned, and it just breaks my heart to think of any other kids going through this. I use the word abandoned here, as it is the way my psychiatrist has used to me. Up until now I had always rationalised it, she 'left' or 'went away', but it was a very deliberate choice on her part to pursue her own happiness at the expense of her children. SHe said she was going to come back for us, but I personally think that she never planned to, that once she was gone she was gone and that was that. I for my part never wanted to live with her again after that - my mind just kept saying 'what if she left again?'
This isn't making much sense is it? Just trying to say that this has been the most traumatic experience of my life, and in many ways my entire personality feeds from it. I have always found it incredibly difficult to trust, I find it almost impossible to let people care for me, to let them look after me and I find it very hard to forego any measure of control over my life. To be honest, dh is the one person who has broken through that shell, until our children came along and also broke through it, which is, I suppose, why I am having so many problems now.
I feel like I have no role model in how to be a good mummy (though a lot of people are in that situation through death or sheer bad parenting) but I feel that something is missing. I am desperate, desperate to be a good mother, to be a better mother than her. Me, my sister and my brother are all screwed up by it to a certain extent, and it happened 21 years ago, and we are all still dealing with it.
I just cant fathom her mind. Of all the things to choose to do, to leave your children, your babies, just seems like the most unnatural thing to do.

And I see my mother now, 21 years on, very happily married to the man she left with, and has been for longer than she was to my Dad, and my Dad also happily remarried, but it seems to me that to this day my mother carries with her an immense burden of guilt. Not that she wishes it hadn't happened, but that deep inside her she knows she did something wrong. I have recurrent severe depression (which she finds very hard to acknowledge), my sister has terrible trouble forming adult relationships and has been through many, both hetero- and homosexual, and has never been able to love anyone properly, my brother has had problems with debt and drugs, and I know that in her heart of hearts she knows that a lot of our problems stem from that early abandonment. She is always looking for reassurance that everything is OK (it's all worked out well in the end is something she says on a regular basis). And yes, it has. I have 3 stepbrothers through my Dad's second marriage who are wonderful, and Mum and my stepfather had a daughter who I am close to. She must have been terribly miserable in her relationship with my Dad, but he can't have been the bad bloke she has sometimes painted him to be, because she left her 3 children with him! And can I take a moment to sing the praises of the best Daddy a girl could ever have had - imagine being a stressed executive who couldn't doa hand's turn in the house and taking on 3 children on your own, and bringing them up as well as we have been brought up, to be screwed up but at least improving and surviving, and to be the best Grandpa in the world!

I think the only way she managed to do it was to harden herself beyond imagining. I think she had to stop thinking of us as her children, her babies. When I talk to her now about my children, she always refers back to her memories of my half-sister as a baby, not me or my full siblings. Like we were friends discussing our children, not mother and daughter. It was a choice she made - she chose not to be our mother any more. She treated me as if I was 12 until I was 18, she was stuck in the timewarp of the day she left. She even left us on the Monday after Mother's Day, can you beleive? I hate it to this day.

Sandyballs, I have no idea if this is any help or explains anything. You asked if anyone had experience of this, and this is mine. I don't understand this woman any more than I understand my own mother. In fact, in some ways I hope I never understand, as it seems to me such an alien thing to do.

But it is true that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and I am determined that I will beat this and not let her be the overriding influence of my life.

Sorry, I have hijacked your thread to tell my story. I'm sitting here crying so much that I can hardly see to type, and I havent cried about my Mum for years, I dont think. Its been a great help to type this, so thanks for giving me the opportunity to do so.

I hope you can work out your relationship with your brother and this woman, and do what you can to help you brother's family through this hard time, if you can.

Take care.

stupidgirl · 13/02/2004 00:07

You sound like you need some (((hugs))) smt

Festivefly · 13/02/2004 00:34

Sorry susanm i hope you come to terms with it, and you learn to live without the pain. I feel for you, hope you have stopped crying! All the best

My brother was put into care by his parents (he is adopted) its funny but he has forgiven his birth dad and been in touch. But is adamant he will never forgive his birth mother. That has been the hardest thing for him to deal with.

GRMUM · 13/02/2004 07:47

Susanmt i think that is the most moving post I have ever read on mumsnet.I don't know what to say except that i wish you all the very best .I know from other posts that you have a very supportive husband and 3 children that you love and care for very much, and I am sure from the bottom of my heart that you will be able to work through this and come out the other side.grmum xx

twiglett · 13/02/2004 08:46

message withdrawn

tamum · 13/02/2004 10:30

Susanmt, I agree with GRMUM, that was the most moving and eloquent piece of writing I've read for a very long time. My heart bleeds for you, but I am also in total admiration of you, for your determination to be the best possible mother to your children (which I am quite sure you are). You have such insight into it all, even though it must be unbelievably painful.

I have no idea how to phrase this properly, I think the best I can do is- I salute you.

Marina · 13/02/2004 10:39

Susan, I wondered if you would post on this thread. I salute you too and I wish any mother planning to abandon her children could be made to read your eloquent post first. I'm so glad the psychiatrist is helping you revisit this in a therapeutic way.

Clarinet60 · 13/02/2004 10:54

Susanmt, hugs too. My mum's attitude is very much the same as your mum's, but she won't talk about it. She knows what she has done, and she also knows that lack of closeness is a consequence of that, not a punishment. It's very hard. I think she sacrificed a lifetime for a few years of freedom (although it was more complex than that, that's what it boils down to).

Carla, I was brought up by my grandparents from the age of 4/5 to 16. From the age of 10, I saw my mum in the some of the school holidays. I mooned about her like a lovesick thing for years, and I mean really mooned. Then at 12 or 13, I gradually realised that adults can do what they want, so our separation was a matter of choice - hers, albeit a hard one. So I fell out of love with her - I realised that she didn't love me as much as I loved her.

It has made my mothering skills stronger, as I know that a mother is everything just by being there - very little else is needed. But then, I did have wonderful grandparents as role models, so it worked out better for me than many in this position.

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