"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's August 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Grrr! They're trying to sneak back in offering to buy ds some football boots (the one thing I forgot from thr uniform list and I am broke). If I say no, he isn't in uniform and can get detention. If I say yes, they'll hold it over me.

What size is he? I have some size 1/Eu 33 umbro boots, good condition, if you want them?

PM me if of any use at all? I'll post them asap!

Sorry to hear this helles couldn't you write him a note, surely that would devoid him from detention?
I wouldn't accept your parents offer of boots, it isn't worth the hassle it will cause you.
Hope you manage to work this out somehow x

Ah.

Figuring détention is for kids that have WAY larger feet than size 1... unless your Primary school is barbaric!

:)

Write a note to the school, twll them that the company sent the wrong ones and you're waiting for the correct ones to arrive.

I wish he was still a 1. No my "little" boy is a size 7.5!! They phoned and offered him and he said yes. So he now has football boots - which he's really happy about.

He got them but I feel very uncomfortable about it.

Hello... Can I join you?
The relationship I have with my mum is beyond strange. I'm an only child and my mum and dad moved 200 miles from their hometown to be closer to me and the kids. She's never settled here, and this is part of the problem.
That aside, she never has a nice word to say - everythingis negative. If I'm truthful, she was instrumental in the breakup of my marraige- constant put downs and negative comments about exdh.
Nearly every interaction with her is about her being controlling. For example- she will pop round to do some cleaning, and comment about the contents of the bin- why are you feeding them ready meals? They need proper food, it's no wonder ds 1 is so small.....
I noticed you'd worn xxx dress- when did you wear that, and anyway, it's not suitable for your age/ figure....
I've had these comments pretty much all my life so they just roll off my back now, but things culminated in a big argument 2 weeks ago when I didn't ring her to let her know I'd come home after a weekend away.
I'm 40- I don't need to be checking in that I'm home....and I told her so. She verbally attacked me and my choice of friends in my own home. For the first time I told her she was overstepping the mark.
She has since taken the hump and is barely speaking to me. My dad is fine.
She inds it acceptable to comment about everything....the amount of time the kids spend with their dad, ( too much in her opinion), the clothes I buy for them and me, everything.
I miss her but wish we could have a more normal relationship. How do u all cope??

Welcome strugging! You need to meet Good2Better...

In the short term, gain distance and try to gain some perspective. She's terrorised your life, and won't stop until she's destroyed it.

Someone call me? . Hi struggling your mother sounds so much like mine....
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1565077-My-mother-hates-my-husband-long

My solution has been to move out of her house (you'll see if you read the thread that she followed me across Europe and then proceeded to try and break up my marriage and guilt tripped and manipulated me to moving in with her) and reduce contact and not react to whinging/histrionics.

But it's hard.

Selfishly G2B, I want you to read struggling's post. That could have been you...did you see that her marriage was taken as a result?

(((struggling))) poor thing! You need to make a stand... be strong, and stop her ruining the rest of your life love.

Let her go silent, keep it that way.

Thanks- I know. She used to come round at tea time when I was married and then say I'd not made her welcome- ffs, I'd just made tea and was struggling to get us all to eat and sit down together.
I think some of her problem now is that I'm doing fine on my own with the kids and she needs to be needed.......
When I was. Married she was constantly saying leave him... And guess what ? When I did she said why did you do that you stupid girl?
My head is a mess with it all. I can't do right for doing wrong.
Sigh

If they hadn't moved here , I probably would still be married.... But she wasn't the cause of my marraige break up, I'd fallen out of love with him, but maybe I would have tried harder had she not been involved. She could see our comings and goings from her house....and would ring to say why weren't the kids in bed yet?

I feel like I'm justifying my every movement with her... Well I was till 2x weeks ago. I just want her to be a normal parent. I took her flowers yesterday, but they weren't in. So I left them on the step. She rang to say (aggressively) did you leave those flowers? Yes I said. I'll get your father was her reply.
My poor dad is in the middle, the kids don't understand why we are not speaking, and even before this they were asking not to go round... They are 9/10 and can hear her comments now......
I just feel bereft.

You're right, Hissy I did see that and I can see how it happened and I can imagine if my mum had driven DH away that she would then have turned it round on to me having "failed" at marriage. I think maybe subconsciously she wanted me all for herself. I understand so much the negative thing. I swear my mother is on a mission to be unhappy, to see the bad in everything.
You say your mother has never settled near you, mine's like this...what does yours do? Bitch about it, romanticise where she was?

Mine started out acting like DH was the bees knees but the digs started and then trying to make me think he was lazy, ungrateful etc ....it descended into out and out bitching about him.

My advice to you would be use this upset with her and this break in contact to forge a new relationship ON YOUR TERMS. Use it as a way to step back from her.

And I understand that feeling of being bereft, not angry, just so, so, so sad. And of missing them or what you thought was the and your relationship with them. Because they're not always nasty, then it would be easy. And I understand that almost primal urge to make it up, make it all better, that need to have a "normal" relationship. But you can't, and that's hard.

But you need a bit of anger to power you into getting a bit of distance, you need to extricate yourself a bit.

I felt quite distant from DH at times, I think because (especially living with my mum) she was sort of crowding him out of my life, sidelining him. I can see how I might have said we'd grown apart if it had gone on and on.

Oh goodtobe.... So many similarities ...
She bitches about being here, romanticises about her old house...wants to move....

does she blame you for "bringing her here"? Mine claimed she "had to" follow me halfway across Europe. Said I had broken her heart by leaving and that she honestly believed it was wrong of me to move away and that I shouldn't have done it/didn't have the right to do it. I abandoned her. (I have a brother ).
Funny thing is she did the same with her parents, moved from NI to London and her father saw me once I think before he died.
Mine claimed she hated where she lived before she followed me, but now romaticises it and her old house, everytime there's a row she's on rightmove looking at properties there.
Has made no attempts to make friends here (she's had opportunities) or make a life here. Just gatecrashed mine instead.
I mean it, grab this opportunity with both hands, make less contact your new normal. Even if it feels wrong now, get some distance now.

Have you read daughtersofnarcissiticmothers website, especially the engulfing narcissist?

No... Must read.. It's only recently that I've thought her behaviour is not normal. I've called her toxic in my head for ages though.
She doesn't outwardly blame me for bringing her here but every conversation is peppered with negatives about her house, the location, wanting to move.....

G2B I just saw your recommendation to Struggling and visited the daughters of website. Oh my word! My parents totally infantalise me. That's why my son accepting the football boots made me uneasy. It gave them the chance to show that I can't cope on my own.

It's a bit scary how much if it is so spot in, isn't it? My mum says the phrases mentuoned there word for word....it's like the script from my life.

Hi all, my mum is visiting in the uk for a few weeks and we've not seen each other, she has been spending the weekend with the children and my husband though which is understandably hard. We established in the end that we would see each other infrequently and for day trips when she was here (around every 4 months)

So I am sort of coping with it, it's hard not to see her to be honest but my head can't take in all the ridiculous stuff I have to deal with aside from that, let alone with her as well.

I am off working shortly and then yet more studying for my maths exam tomorrow. Am pretty nervous really.

Mum is taking the boys shopping today, she wants to 'spend money on them' I would far rather she didn't but they are both in need of winter shoes so DH is going to suggest she helps out with that.

She also wants to give us some money each money for them, so we can take them out for the day on her behalf. I am less comfortable with that.

But the guilt. I feel so guilty. And I miss her. I now see why the abused form close relationships with their abusers....
I need to stand strong - she's waiting for an apology....