"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Thread opener here: webaunty.co.uk/mumsnet/
You may need to right-click and 'unblock' it after downloading it.

It's August 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Bugger! Big post lost!

Minimisation is rampant when you're faced with the "loss" of your family.

He's forgotten :(

It's like a dementia patient continually forgetting that the love of their life died, and every day having the heart shredding realisation that they've lost what they loved for so long.

The brain will do anything to avoid that pain.

He'll need gentle reminding of the reasons why he has to remain NC, and that it really was that bad.

I had to remind myself daily, as I often wondered to myself why it was I had to stop talking to them.

It's heart breaking.

Thanks for all posts. Hissy what you just said about having to remind yourself what they have been like is def the way I feel. The brain has an ability to forget and because it's so complex and not just one thing my mind often just shuts it out and I carry on with them. Maybe I need to keep reminding myself daily.

Pumpkin - to know how it feels it's an overwhelming guilt. I feel on edge and nervous all through body and stomachs shaking so to speak. I'm really angry. I don't deserve it. its so easy to justify what they have been like, you know like perhaps it's me type thinking and maybe I did something and think maybe they can't be that bad and giving them the benefit of the doubt all the time.it ties you up in knots and anger. The things they say to guilt trip you wouldn't be uttered by normal people. My mum often uses the dying bit and that I'll regret supposedly treating her badly when all I do is not want to see her because I'm sick of being abused and my confidenece being shattered. It already is then i get a glimmer of building it up then problems with them shatter it. It feels like they have this control/ power over me that I can't get away from even though I'm a grown woman and living in my own home.

It's very painful to think your parents don't care. I think I'm just going to have to carry on without them in my life, otherwise I don't see me having a happy life. I just see stress and pain every week.

It must be hard for you pumpkin . I mean really what I would like to do is have the strength to just basically stick two v signs up and say sod you. No more! Then walk away and not feel pain, anxiety and guilt. The guilt that if I never saw them again and they ended up dying would I regret not seeing them.

I posted on here a while back, I wondered if anyone could comment on what's happened this morning? I hope someone remembers me, I'll do my best to explain without going on too much (reading back I've failed terribly at this!). I also don't want to out myself so please excuse me if I need to be vague in areas.

I'm 250 miles away from my family, dysfunctional abusive upbringing but I did the right thing by moving away 10 years ago, I'm happily married to a wonderful dh, and we have 2 dc's and one on the way. we've spent the last 10 years visiting in the summer and at xmas, because despite the crap I went through with them I still struggled with feeling the family ties, the guilt, and the hope that things would change. Took a while but over the past few years I started to feel more settled where I am, not homesick anymore and I've made some really proper friends that have helped my self esteem no end. I last saw my family in may - didn't go down in august as decided finally that Id had enough of the one-sided ness, same with xmas this year. We'd spend £100 odd on fuel, then when we'd get there we'd have to do a shop or not get fed there, when Id had the babies we'd either do the drive down so they could see them, pay for tickets so my mum and sister could come up (dad and brother wouldn't for various non-reasons - couldn't be bothered), or on occasion dh would drive down, pick them up and come home, then do the same to take them back! (I realise this is crazy, but I think dh just really wanted to try and encourage a good relationship and my parents are very good at playing the 'oh we're so poor' card, and believe me they find money when they have to, they just chose not to for these things. Dh now realises they were just taking advantage.) When my dad didn't have a car, dh bought one, did it up and gave it to him as a surprise. My dad didn't look after it, it got very untidy and living on the coast needed to be looked after properly or the salty sea air starts to damage the body work etc. He basically ran it into the ground and laughed about it. These are the examples Im thinking of off the top of my head to give an idea of how things are with them. I got upset about the car - I thought their behaviour was pisstaking and said they should've looked after it, but I got a bollocking for daring to be hurt that such a big gesture was thrown back in my husbands face.

When my dd was a couple of months away from being born, we were told that she may have a condition that causes a blockage in the throat and therefor would need surgery as soon as she was born. Naturally I spent those last few months terrified Id lose her, and I was worried about the labour anyway as my 2 year old son would need to be looked after, this was causing me concern as I didn't obv have family nearby to help nor the supportive friends that I have now. I phoned my mum in floods of tears, begged her to come and stay for a week to help me just so I knew my son would be okay whilst I was going through god knows what in hospital. She doesn't work so didn't have to worry about time off etc, and I said we'd pay train/coach fare. She said she 'couldn't just drop everything' and wouldn't help me. This was probably the big thing that showed me just how little she really gave a shit.

So, up to today (huge apologies for massive post.) I don't have any contact with her usually, until a week or so ago when she wrote me a letter. Just basic things - how are the kids etc. I replied (wish I hadn't now but I thought I could handle it) I see these small gestures from her as meaningless and just done when her guilt gets too much and she has to do something to make herself feel better. she's a classic narcissist, nothings her fault and all those things from my childhood I remember? - DID.NOT.HAPPEN. What's happened today will sound very trivial Im sure but its like the last straw for me, and Id appreciate some comments or clarification from someone. So every year for xmas my dad makes a food item (Im going to use xmas cake as an example) and when we did our xmas trip down we'd collect our 'cake' from them to bring home with us. Obv this year we're not going, so I said to mum that it wouldn't cost much to post the item via royal mail (I checked) and could they post instead. Yep that's fine she said. (For clarification Im talking less than £20) Today I get "your dad says itd cost too much to post so I dunno what you want to do" - meaning basically we cant be arsed to sort it so either you collect it or go without. (Shes like this - everythings too much bother for her. When I was about 13 I was desperate for a particular jumper for xmas. She bought it for me but it was too small. Instead of returning it for a different size she sold it to a friend for her daughter, and I went without.) Now blame it on my hormones but I replied and said that itd cost a damn sight less than the fuel and shop we'd have to spend to come down, that we'd done allsorts for them over the years, spent money we could've used ourselves (we're not wealthy by any means - council house etc). She didn't reply to that, I said not to bother Id sort my own but incidentally how would dad know how much the postage would be, when he hadn't been to the post office etc? She ignored that and said 'ok sorry, have a nice xmas'. I said that I wouldn't be making the trip down once Ive had the baby either, nor would we be funding them to come up. I told her not to bother replying, and Ive blocked her number.

She'll now be playing the 'poor woman, with a terrible ungrateful daughter treating her badly' card, when in my mind I think Ive put up with enough over the years and this was the final 'actually we cant be bothered with you' thing they've done that Im going to accept. I just know its all going to be turned around to be all my fault just as its always been. I feel awful for doing this, though its been coming for years. Countless times Ive tried to talk etc, she gets defensive and nasty. Im tired and Im done with this.

I spent the day with my family and dh's parents yesterday and it was lovely. After dinner his mum told me to put my feet up on the sofa and relax, and brought me a cup of tea. We had nice conversations, they are lovely with the children and love to spend time with them. Despite them also being a few hours away his mum told me a few times that if I ever ever need them when Im in labour or when the baby is here they will drop everything and come to help me (they are also older than my parents yet willing to do all this). I initially found them stifling at first due to being the complete opposite to my parents but over the years Ive come to realise that's what loving parents are meant to be like.

Sorry Im rambling on now, but have I done the right thing? Its just that Id get so used to not hearing from my family unless there was a problem or they needed help with something, so Id usually not hear from them at all then when my mum pops up it brings it all up. She takes no responsibility, doesn't acknowledge anything happened or their behaviour to me, but god forbid I should be unhappy or upset about it. Her failure to acknowledge any of the bad treatment meant that it took so long to get over stuff and work through it, and meant years of believing I was worthless, I deserved it all and that I was mentally ill to 'imagine' all of the things that happened...

Im in my 30's now, today Ive decided that my dh and my kids are the only family I need and cutting those lot out is prob beneficial in the long run, even if right now I feel terribly broken hearted. Any advice? Thanks so much for reading x

Yes GuyMartinsSideburns you have absolutely done the right thing here with regards to your narc mother and her weak enabler and nasty bystander of a husband (such women always but always need a willing enabler to help them).

I know all too well it is not possible to have any sort of relationship with a narcissist. Please take my word for it also.

Your parents have utterly failed you and have shat on both you and now your H long enough. You do NOT need their approval, not that they would ever freely give it to you anyway.

Do not reply at all further to any letters or communiques/demands from your parents or siblings for that matter, doing so just gives them an "in" to further torment you. If these people send presents take them to the charity shop, do not acknowledge their so called "gift" (always but always loaded with obligation) in any way. Its also why I never want to accept any gift from my MIL come Christmas time because she only gifts me out of a sense of duty and not, what I am writing here!, actually never, out of any altruistic need. Also narcs are crap gift givers, its never their fault, they are past masters of "come closer so I can hurt you again" and they have NO empathy whatsoever. This is only but four of their traits, there are many others and they are all bad.

I would suggest you read the website entitled Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers and the book "Children of the Self Absorbed" written by Nina W Brown. Both will certainly help you hence the suggestions. Cutting parents off is never done lightly and you will waiver but its a decision I would certainly make in your case for your own sake as well as that of your own family unit now.

Establish your own family unit Christmas traditions, you do not need them in your life or that of your childrens for that matter. Such people make for being truly crap and toxic grandparents.

I would also consider counselling with regards to the fear, obligation and guilt you feel with regards to your parents.

The best plan is to work through the matter with a therapist of your own, who has no bias toward trying to “keep families together” despite the presence of mistreatment.

(More Here: lightshouse.org/lights-blog/toxic-bad-abusive-grandparents#ixzz2myzdZGwD)

As Atilla says, you have so done the right thing! What a terrible waste of parents you have. :(

One thing though Atilla I looked at that link yesterday to see if I could get some help/support/comfort from it.

I can't see that my mother et al are Narcs, they don't fit onto any of the categories.

It would really help if there was a label, I'd feel less alone, but they aren't, and I am alone.

What does one do when this is the situation, just chalk em down as 'Not Good Enough' and carry on regardless?

Hi Hissy

((((((((((hissy))))))))))

Maybe then you can put your mother into the all purpose Toxic Parent/Dysfunctional Family category. Chalk 'em up as "Not Good Enough" for ME and carry on regardless. It works for me. You do not need their approval, not that they would freely if ever give it anyway. It is NOT your fault they are like this.

I think you are doing remarkably well with regards to them, your mother has certainly pushed more recently.

You are not correct on one point however and it is this - you are not alone!!!.

ha ha, did I come across as a 'Everyone ELSE has a Narc Parent, and I don't! WAAAAH!'

thanks Atilla! I needed that!

They are not even good enough to be Narcs!

I still don't get it, I still don't believe or understand it. It's not happening to me really, one day I'll wake up and it will be 'normal' again.

Except that it's not, never was, and never will be. :(

I half wish that I could be bothered to look for a boyfriend so that perhaps I could find some decent 'parents' to love, even if they belonged to somebody else!

Hissy, my mother isn't a full on narc either. She can be v kind sometimes. But she is massively self centred and entitled and v manipulative. It doesn't matter really what is wrong with them...if you can't have an equal and loving relationship with them because of their behaviour then they are toxic. Xx

Sorry for this.

I haven't posted on this thread as I'm not ready to tell my story. I can tell you though, that I haven't spoken to DM for almost a year after she insulted me for the last time.

She has tried to make contact twice by leaving messages asking me to call back, but when I try to call back, she hangs up without speaking to me.

She then left a message 2 months after my birthday to apologise for forgetting it and will make it up to me in the new year - she hasn't remembered my birthday for the last 15 years, never mind made it up to me. Not once has she called to see if me or the DC are ok in the last 12 months.

Anyway, my question is this and it is a ridiculous question but you of all people will understand why I'm asking this.

What should I do about Christmas cards? I don't know if I should send one or not. I know I won't get one from either her or DB who lives with her but I'm almost conditioned into sending one as it's the right thing to do.

I don't know what to do as I certainly don't want her to think that everything is ok, it bloody well isn't but my life and I are much happier and calmer without her in it.

What do you suggest? It may be obvious to those reading this but I honestly can not see through the fog on this one.

Hi everyone,
Too many messages to mention everyone (sorry) but thinking of you al, esp in the run-up to Christmas.

bedtime I was around for some of your earlier posts and think our parents sound quite similar in lots of ways. My father has also said plenty of times that when he's dead I'll regret how I treated him, I'll wish I treasured the time we had together, I'll 'grow up' and realise how great he is etc. etc. It's hard but I just think of some of the things he's said or done to me and know that he is the problem, not me.

pumpkin I really feel for you and your DH. He sounds like he's engulfed by FOG and I would second what the others have said about reminding him what they have done. I had my 'revelation' about my parents late last year too but things are made easier by me being abroad which I use as an 'excuse' to have nearly nothing to do with them. It does take time though and I think you just have to be there to support your DH. He has to realise how bad they are on his own, in his own time.

Hissy as Attila said you are not alone I think, difficult as it is, you just have to say to yourself and accept that whatever your mother is, she is toxic and not good to be around. She is abusive. I know it feels easier having a label but it doesn't really change the fact that she is abusive and doesn't deserve to have you or your son. Delete the voicemails. Delete, delete, delete. Sending Christmassy hugs.

farrow don't send a Christmas card. What's the point? She hasn't remembered your birthdays, she insults you, isn't interested in you or your DC and as you said your life is happier and calmer without her. I know you feel you should, but you don't have to. And it's quite empowering not to do something like that when you know items expected of you.

I'm going to be a hypocrite though as I will send small Christmas presents because I want to send them to my siblings who still live at home. It's easier to pick something meaningless for my parents and keep things as they are (which benefits me for a couple of reasons).

A friend picked up some things of mine that were at my parents' house the other day and later text me saying how lovely my mum is. I know my mother is not lovely, I know the act she would have put on but I read the text a few times and then thought about some of the things she's done, almost so I could be sure in my own mind that she is not lovely. I don't doubt myself much any more but I felt quite sad reading that and knowing the reality. She's done a couple of things recently that have re-affirmed why I'm v low contact.

I'm actually looking forward to Christmas though. I'm spending it with people that treat me like family, which I'm very lucky to have.

This is the hardest time in the year for Stately Homers. don't ever apologise for not having 'put in'

We are all here to support one another and sometimes we need HELP more than support iykwim.

My advice, for what it's worth? LET GO.

No cards, no calls, don't return her calls, in fact, block her number. (although that is easier said than done for a stately homer, in your own time)

No contact means no contact.

You, by calling her back, have actually allowed her to insult you again. and for nothing!

Don't put yourself in that position again. Stay NC, you didn't make that decision for nothing.

Thank you.

You are both right and will take your advice. It's a horrible position to be in and I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

There are so many little things that she has done over the years but they've grown and grown and yet, I've still been blind to it. Like others, it's taken an ex and his abuse to see what is wrong and why it's being repeated. Not just ex boyfriends but in friends as well.

Some of the things that other posters have quoted their abusers saying to them, I can remember being said to me but, at the time, you just don't see it.

What upsets me the most is that my mother had an abusive childhood and still lets her mother treat her badly. I can see it as can everyone else and I have told her what you are all now telling me. It's strange when you realise that the same this is happening to you from the very person you are trying to protect.

Thank you both again. I'm going to read the thread a bit more now and see if anything else triggers a couple of things.

Just wanted to pop in quickly to say thanks for the replies yesterday, I did reply properly but it looks like my phone decided to play up and wouldn't post. Im going to look at the website mentioned, and put the book in my amazon basket, thank you.

It was a strange afternoon, but as yet I haven't cried. Im debating whether to delete my siblings (15 and 26) from fb, I don't hear from them either unless they need something. A big concern was my granddad but as dh reminded me yesterday - if anything was to happen to him (hes been ill for a while etc) then there are various ways that I could be informed of this. And hopefully not like the text message I received telling me my dad had cancer...

I think Christmas is a strange time for those of us going through such situations, I know over the years Id get homesick and feel somewhat lonely at this time of year, and more likely to buckle and maybe even apologise just to keep the peace. This has happened to me a few times and I think now they just think 'oh its just Guy again and her moods' - its always been 'me and my moods/ my fucked up head'. They haven't been there for me for as long as I can remember, I certainly don't need them now.

Thank you for the comments and acknowledgement, they mean a lot. Im sure I'll have a wobble but Id like to pop back in then if I may.

I hope that everyone going through this manages to find the strength to do what is right for them, and not what suits such destructive people instead.

On the subject of fb Guy you are damned if you do, damned if you don't.
In my case i made most of my pictures unviewable by most of the toxic il clan by changing my privacy settings. But mil has a tendancy to send me game requests in the middle of the night 12am, 1am,3am and uses fb as a means to message me when things don't go her way.
For example yesterday, she messaged me to ask dh to phone her (he is ignoring her at present)
I ignored it but want to delete them now as it's just another way for them to communicate.

Trouble is i deleted them last year and the outcry fgs! Don't know whats worse the outcry or the endless drivel.

The outcry will only be temporary and they will be pissed off more over the fact that they have one less way to get to you/control you/upset you. They couldn't give a toss about you, they just care about the ways to control you.

Delete, block and don't give in.

One more thing, for anyone to answer. Why is it so bloody easy to give other people advice and yet you can't even solve your own simple problems?

I guess you are right, power to me just deleted and blocked one of them, will do the other one in a few days!
Tbh can't stand being woken by game requests any longer!

An I offer some advice?

Why not just delete them both? Deleting just the one means that you are going to get hell via the one who is not blocked. They will drag favoritism into it "I've done everything for you and this is how you repay me" sort of stuff, and they will (I'll put money on this) make your life a little bit more miserable each and every chance they get.

I would bite the bullet and block both, await the backlash - think of everything that they will say as they are predictable and that in itself will make you stronger to just think to yourself that you have done the right thing.

Think if it like ripping off a plaster.

I have added this seperately as it deserve it's own space.

Well done on the first deletion! One down, one to go!

Yes i completely agree, i will get the plaster ripped off now!

Go for it!

That's 3 of them done, just unsure what to do about sil2 because she isn't involved in any of this and has never once caused any problems. She also lives other side of country.
But leaving her on there opens up possibilities of them getting hold of info if they so badger her.
Very tricky

Good points, Im prob just best off going big guns. there's also an older sister from a previous marriage of my dads. Obv she didn't grow up with him around so now they've been in touch over the years their relationship is different. He phones her, they would visit each other etc, its all very rose tinted. She used to phone my mum, and theyd chat but my mum would moan to her about my dad, then this half sister would message me and tell me, and Id be like 'wtf? Why are they telling me this shit?' One time I was at my parents and my mum started bad mouthing this half sister - think she was jealous of the attention, and I got fed up with it and said 'so why do you keep chatting to her then and telling you her business?!' Obviously she had nothing to say to this and it shut her up. Think I'll delete them all... right that's done.

Would it be bad of me to not let them know at all when my son is born? Im tempted to not bother and leave them to find out through the grapevine, just as they've kept things from me too.

Thanks x

I don't think it would be bad of you Guy, i'm also in the same predicament and don't intend of letting my ils know.
I'm just hoping dh sticks to my plans as it's not worth telling them of a grandchild, i shall never be allowing them to meet and simply telling them will make things worse i think.

I have told dh that telling them will only open us up to intrusion and a photo would never be enough.
I would also be scared of them turning up at hospital or at my house

I would not tell them anything.

FB to my mind is a narcissist's ideal tool to manipulate others with. If you can remove yourself from FB I would do that as well or if not up your privacy settings to their absolute max.

As for your parents as your as yet unborn child, I would keep him away from these toxic people in any case. Toxic parents more often than not make out for being toxic grandparents as well. They do not change any once grandchildren appear on the scene.