"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's August 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Well done you!

that's great news. Take it steady, expect it to be hard sometimes, but focus on being stronger on the other side of it all. come back and debrief/vent/explode here if it helps. Your journey will inspire others and will help US to keep going too.

Detachment is what we ALL strive for.

Easier said than done...

When I looked for counselling, it was due to DV, so I focussed on that aspect, I was afraid of people, men especially, so sought out a male counsellor, to challenge my fears and push my boundaries. I chose one that worked with perpetrators of abuse as well as victims. I figured that my involvement with him would help HIM to pass on some of the real experiences and pain to those that perpetrate it, so that he could make a difference, and I would, by association make a difference too somewhere along the line.

Most of them offer first consultations, so go along and chat and see if you feel comfortable with them.

You are ready to start healing yourself, and you need a therapist to help you do that.

Mil texting dh again, had to write this down as it made me laugh my socks off!

"Can you please find the time to contact me, as i worry when you don't"-

The only worry most probable, is that she worries he is actually having a good time away from all their toxic shit! Because a true person that "worry" for their children, don't treat their child, grandchildren & their spouse like shit!

Nah, plain old fashioned guilt tripping!

My mum's H confronted my cousin the other week telling her that Hissy's upset her mother and what had I said to her about it.

DearCousin played a blinda, told him i'd said nothing and she didn't know what he was on about!

He spluttered, blistered and I then stalked off.

prick

:)

Hissy, that's funny time to mess with their heads ay!

Wonder what kind of crap mil & the poisnous aunt will come out with at Christmas lol

My DM also had the nerve to get pissy and tetchy when i'd missed 2 calls while away up north.

She'd moved without telling me where, and was calling from a withheld number.

Not entirely sure how i'm supposed to assume the responsibility for not calling back a number I didn't have...

Yeah pumpkin, at my grandmother's internment of ashes too.

I'm livid with him tbh, but I think my Cuz dealt with it just perfectly.

did I say prick

This has been extremely helpful to me, thank you OP! Tomorrow I'm sending an email to my mum to say that my stepdad cannot meet my daughter (he hasn't met her yet). He sexually harrassed me when I was a teenager (he's been my stepdad since I was 4) and tried to attack me on several occasions. I kept quiet through fear of not being believed. Mum put 2 and 2 together and he confessed to everything. She forgave him and has since brushed it under the carpet and tried to push a father/daughter relationship on us. I'm finally biting the bullet and telling her how much it upsets me what she did and has done since. She will flip and play the martyr and other reactions stayed above. The responses suggested have given me bags more confidence so thank you!

Hello everyone. Have been reading on and off but been busy with work and then dBro was here last week.
Had a good chat with him about Dm but it all still goes round in circles really. She makes me feel guilty about everything and I feel maybe I'm being unfair or cruel but then I hear she's been bitching about DH again and it just reminds me why I had to detach and pull away from her. Outright lies about him as usual. Can't talk to DH about it obviously, so once DBro goes the it festers for a bit. She's all about the PA digs and the poor little me act all the time and it gets on my nerves.
I saw her on Tues, thurs, Fri and sat last week as it was the only way to see DBro (saw him separately too but can't avoid her all the time as he stayed at her house, no room here.) Then on Sat she says:
"So I won't be seeing you and the DCs tomorrow as usual?" (DBro went on sat eve).
No.
"So I won't see you until the following sunday?"
No.
Undertone...poor little me with no company and no friends. WHOSE FAULT IS THAT?!!!!
But then I still feel guilty.
But as DH pointed out, if I see her with the kids twice at the weekend, when do we get to spend time as a family? I think a couple of hours every Sunday is plenty, normal no for most GPs?

"But as DH pointed out, if I see her with the kids twice at the weekend, when do we get to spend time as a family? I think a couple of hours every Sunday is plenty, normal no for most GPs?"

For "normal" and "emotionally healthy" families even that can become a bit stifling but in your case your birth family is patently dysfunctional and has been so for many years. Any visit to her albeit to see your brother is actually one visit too many.

If anyone is being both unfair and cruel here its your mother. You have to continue this long and hard process of disengaging and detaching from her. You really also do not want your children caught up in her overall dysfunction either. It is not possible to have any sort of relationship with a narcissist.

BTW you did very well in your conversation to your mother, keep it up!!!.

Your mother wants you and by turn your children all to herself.
Do you think she feels at all guilty putting you through all this; not a bit of it.

Why feel so guilty - ahh that is FOG again. You seem to have FOG in spades. Will you ever be free of this ghastly toxic woman?.

I think, as regards the FOG, I have been conditioned by her and the family dynamic to feel I must "fix" everything, especially with regards to her and her emotional state. I think my childhood with her and the parentisation side of our relationship has meant I feel responsible for her happiness and I think she feels it is up to others to make her happy.
I have to consciously remind myself that a "normal" person would have a) not followed me across Europe
b) if they had, they'd have found their own friends and entertainment
c) not attacked my DH in a jealous narcissitic rage.
There have been opportunities for her to make friends here and she has never persued them. There is a day centre for OAPs opposite her house and they organise all kinds of stuff and they're not all wheelchair bound or gaga. There is swimming/aquaerobics and the people who do it are no more physically able than her, but she wouldn't do that.
She comes out with stuff from time to time and I think, ooh she's going to do something positive for once then she backs down. Like she said she was going to visit DBro in Dublin then when it comes up again, she's all "I couldn't possibly do that, you see how I struggle here every day, how could I manage a flight?"
Or, when we went out to a lovely bar set in a courtyard for tapas with DBro and she says "So, could I come here and have lunch then, is it open in the week?"
I say, yes, you could pop over and have a glass of wine and sit in the sun and have tapas. DBro says, yes, you could bring your kindle.
As we're leaving she comments what a nice place and I say, yes and you could come back for lunch.
"Oh no, I couldn't manage that in reality. It's too much for my hip. It's a nice idea, but not something I could do".
FFS.

G2B you REALLY need to read your old thread again. She was destroying you and your marriage and therefore your family, just to be queen bee in your life.

I think, personally that you are still too involved with her and having an every weekend arrangement is WRONG. As of now, you need to make it ad hoc and just see what arrangements you WANT to make.

TELL her that you are not going to do this every weekend thing as then it becomes like a job, an expectation and that in time you BOTH will see this as that and not the pleasurable event it OUGHT to be.

You NEED distance, you need to reconnect with YOU, with your H and your children. In short you need to put YOUR life first.

Be focussed on this, or you know she will get in to your skin again and start to wreck you all from the inside out.

She sounds very much engrossed in herself G2B, the woh is me over her hip, like it would stop someone sitting down for tapas!!!

Her way or the high way, it sounds to me like nothing has changed

Mil was very much like this, in the days i offered her an olive branch. Instead of meeting at ours or at hers i asked to meet on neutral ground and at the time invited her to see us and her supposed love grandchildren at a cafe, but no it wasn't good enough for her and she declined & tried to badger us into a visit at her home, because apparently her legs couldn't take it, yet she perfectly manages her disability when walking miles round the shopping mall with the toxic aunt il

I ordered the toxic parents book today to my kindle. Will have a look after work.

Hmm, I've answered yes to most of the questions in the first bit, especially the section on your relationship with your parents......

It is dawning on me that I minimise the dysfunctionality of my parents. my nutty narc mum and an alcoholic father.

i am new here.my reason for posting is i believe my mother is a narcissist who has spent my life damaging me.i was adopted at 11months and spemt my childhood being taken to counsellors ,therapsits ,psychiatrists,all in an effort my my mother to get me diagnosed with something,a label.i remember a family therapy session when i was about 7/8 where all the family were told to tell me how my behaviour affected the,,my sisters said i ruined everything.my behavoiur was tantrums,not doing what my mother wanted,she hot me frequently,only lately i have realised that actually this did not go on in all families as i had believed.
she always used my adoption to make me feel that i was damaged and needed to be fixed.my my teenage years i was bullied dreadfully,and discovered boys,i used to stay out all night weeks as a time partying.her solution was to take me an adoptee to a nun counsellor in a magdalen laundry convent.
by 16 i asked to be sent into care.just to breathe.i was thrown out for going out at night literally thrown onto the road with my clothes and had to move back to my parents i went.briefly.i met my now dh a few weeks later moved in with him a week after meeting him.i was 17.i am 33 now.more in between but whats triggered me to post now was a phone call last week.she drew up adoption ,an emotive topic and just casually mentioned that i was the result of rape.then she asked if i thought the father was a family member.(i met my birth mum at 19 she died of cancer a few weeks later ,she had a learning disability and i was young and afarid to rock boat )
i am in the process of revelation about her right now and what poison she is.i have booked a counsellor for this week.but what i am dealing with at this moment is the fact that my whole life she has scapegoated me,.made me the bad one,the one with problems,when she is the problem.the guilt draws me back in,if 2 weeks pass i feel guilt and visit .inevitably to be belittled in some way.i have a ton of examples of her narcissim but right now im dealing with her bombshell and the way she did it with no compassion for me at all,knowing i have to see my birth uncles in my town.

Oh scrunch, that's awful! :(

Do you have a therapist to support you in all this?

You must break away from these terrible people.

Being alone is better than being part of an organisation whose sole aim is to destroy you.

Just saw that you have a counsellor booked, that's brilliant, post on here as much as you need to eh?

Just saw that you have a counsellor booked, that's brilliant, post on here as much as you need to eh?

Dear Scrunchy

Hissy is right, you need to break away from this so -called mother. What mother would do all those things and say in such a truly insensitive way about how you were conceived? When you build up your self esteem you will see how wrong this is.

It may help you to start a diary to put your thoughts down. So that you can read back and know you weren't imagining these things and that it is them not you.

The sickening kick these people get from trying to destroy you. I am three years into recovery from my dysfunctional family. You will find in time that you will start to piece back your self esteem. Take care, Bay

Started this thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pregnancy/1907780-Abusive-family-want-relationship-with-my-expected-child?msgid=42938636#42938636

This Sately Homes thread was recommended to me.

I was wondering if anyone else feels ashamed or embarrassed? Have we any role models that have poor relations with their parents because they cease to forgive their abusive behaviour? I keep thinking what the media would say if Kate Middleton had such a dysfunctional family dynamic. What will my PIL think of me (I'll never know as they would never say anything).

That is awful Scrunchy!
As you were adopted, may I make a sweeping generalization and say that there probably exists abandonment issues in your circumstances. (I have abandonment issues too but was not adopted--or have experienced anything as horendous as you ). Anyway, I just wanted to say that with that hurdle, it is still ok to cut someone out of your life. Weighing the pros and cons, I can not imagine that she would be filling anything in on the pro side of the list...certainly not enough to make up for that terrible treatment.

She has taken her pound of flesh, sounded almost like she was saving that up to use on you eventually... You do not owe her anything, you have no obligation to her, please believe you do not need to feel guilty. I hope your counsellor can address this. My counsellor helped me own my own guilt...in seeing that my sister could not make me feel guilty: only I could make myself feel guity. I had had enough, so ditched it and that was that. That sounds lot more simple than it was actually.

Hth, take care.

Docklands, we all feel shame about how our awful families are.

But it's not our shame to feel, we've done nothing wrong.

Please protect your baby from your family? Don't let them near her?

I agree with Hissy, keep baby away from them.
Yes you will feel guilty, but remember it isn't you who should burden the guilt as they themselves became too toxic to have around your baby to be.

Here in my zone, the saga continues
Mil text dh yesterday with another guilt trip. "Back from Aunt *, we have lots of xmas presents" - This being the aunt that is supposedly ill in hospital, but they all managed to find the time to christmas shop. Oh well that will be some of the bargaining tools bought ready for xmas!! I shall not be fooled, dh might, but i will not!