"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's August 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

And the band plays on makes loads of sense when she says she had to ditch the guilt. Guilt is the fuel that is used to continue the relationship status quo.

When I went NC with father and 2 sisters, the guilt and shame was enormous-I wrote it in my diaries. Now I think WHY THE HELL was I ashamed and embarrassed? But that is how dysfunctional families can make you feel. I do look at Kate Middleton and think I'd love to have a mother and siblings like her. But she will have different issues to address. I, I am just finally very near happy and it feels sooo good after nearly 50years.
pumpkin you are no orange fool!

Mil that woman needs shooting!

Texts to dh mil "love you son"
Dh "love you"
Mil "no you don't"
Mil "hope your happy"
Mil again "your dad loves u 2 x"

What the actual fuck is that about, i guess i will never understand their warped ways. I'm only guessing, purely speculation that this is another guilt trip to get him onside or atleast get him to visit!!
On a positive note dh seems very upbeat today so i'm guessing he is becoming immune to her shite

Nervous.
Away with work on the weekend, mere miles from DM.

Think she'll try and see me? I've ignored her for months. She knows where i'll be tomorrow, and Saturday.

Do I brief the hotel to keep all personal guest details safe?

Pumpkin, he needs to leave her texts, and not rise to them.

All that was so that she could texh him the guilt trip that HE doesn't love HER.

But it'd have been totally fucked up to say 'you don't love me' wouldn't it?

Phone off.

Glad you are happy baytree
I guess that we must rise above these people, for me, i won't say it was easy but no way near as hard as it is for the child of a toxic, being a dil of it, i suppose i found it easier to disengage as i'm not torn for the love i expect from them iyswim, whereas dh suffers the guilt, the hoping for acceptance, etc.

I know i have a hard road ahead with Christmas though, it will go one of two ways, dh may remain strong or he may fall like in years previously, and i do somewhat get the blame as it is easier for him to take it out on me having not gained the courage to tell them where to go just yet!

I agree Hissy he needs to change his number but so far he isn't there yet & i agree with the whole convo set up purely so mil could send the "no you don't"

I hope for a day when he stands up to her, not yet there but hoping one day soon even if not for years

Scrunchy

That text exchange is just such errant PA guilt tripping nonsense, pumpkin! Don't these people get tired of all the pouting and whining and bollocks? It's like my dm, the amount of effort she puts into being a fucking misery and a martyr, I'll never understand.
I've been having a lovely week without DM. I have seen her for 10 mins, once and that's it!
The weather here is getting colder but is beautiful, sunny sunny days and I've not been snowed under with work for once, so I've been reading toxic parents and working out my long-term business plan to get back into translation in the future, and I feel free and happy and lighter than I have in a while. Life's not perfect but it's so much better.
DM I think is mad as a box of frogs and just generally easier at arm's length. DBro thinks she's got a bit of a painkiller addiction going on, but I think she's just a screaming hypochondriac and a professional victim/martyr. So, it's lovely not living with her :)

Hi all, I'm going to blame a busy life for not being on the thread for a long time but the truth is it all got too real and close to the truth and I backed off and put my head back in the sand. Don't know if I'll ever have the strength to stand up to it all.

Back here as they cause an issue every single week, they're involved in every aspect of my life they can get access to. Just want to be left alone but it's not going to happen :(

Can you reduce contact Phoenix? Sorry I don't know your backstory.

I've now read most of the Toxic parents books and, my word...some of it I swear she knows my mother! Spookily accurate. Also has brought to the fore again about my dad (alcoholic, now dead) as I'd sort of "forgotten" about that. Beginning to realise what a fucked up childhood I had and what a total weirdo my mother is in so many ways. I've been remembering more shit she pulled over the years and it's unsettling me.
And I still struggle so massively with guilt. I've come so far and I felt really proud of myself reading the confrontation section as I did that by myself (well, with MN help!) and yet I'm so enmeshed in other ways still.

Makes me think a lot about my relationship with my kids especially with DS. Had a bad day today in terms of shouting and tantrums and whining (them) and I worry about scarring them emotionally.

Love, make other christmas arrangements.

It will be a disaster if you go. Please yourself! Please don't sign up for that.
Nothing will ever change if you all keep doing the same thing.

Make other plans.

Your reason is that you were screamed at and that's not ever going to happen again.

Then, anything they say, you reply with 'this isn't up for discussion, i've made up my mind'

Over and over.

or go along with it all and pretend you're sick the day before

The trick is to leave your 'announcement' until no more than 10 days before, ideally the week before, and then you won't have weeks of them pressuring you.

The other option is to make other plans, and just go somewhere else, don't answer calls, don't respond and just say you did your own thing, and that you don't need to explain yourself to anyone.

What would you like to do for christmas? Are you with anyone? Could you go stay with friends? Anywhere but where they can fine you?

Yes, do not go there for Christmas under any circumstances. They are NOT worth it.

I would look at perhaps volunteering over the Christmas period.

Listen to Aunty Atilla, she's always right!

I have just stumbled upon this thread. All I can say is that I've been looking for this for a very long time, to know that I'm not the only one that had such a sad and lonely childhood, to know that I'm not 'living in the past' and that actually no, I'm not 'over it all by now'.
I've been reading through some posts and almost in tears at the similarities, but at the same time lifted that there is hope and help and books and someone out there to listen.
Perhaps now I know this is here I'll post a bit more in depth, getting it all down could be tricky.
In a nutshell I still have many issues, especially with my Mother and compounded by the fact that I have recently become a mother to a daughter..... So my feelings, my past has been brought to the fore again. I can normally do quite a good job of compartmentalising but now I'm a mother, watching my own mother around my baby has been quite hard.
Apologies for the vagueness but it's late (for me).
Thank you for existing here

Far, good to have you here, come back and chat whenever you can?

I came to start a thread but will post here if that's okay?

I got the courage to report my Mother and a social worker from when she put me in care for sexual abuse. And they did nothing. Said it's historical, no forensics. I have thought of writing her a card saying 'So you're a paedophile?' to see if she'll put anything in writing. This is because she guilt tripped me, so in response I wrote her a card saying this is all the stuff I remember you doing. When I was 1 you played a song that you knew made me cry. When I was 2 you would put your face to mine, noses touching and say 'if you don't shut the fuck the up I am going to fucking kill you' really slow and steady. She replied with a card saying

'You weren't exactly a model daughter. I'll never forget when you were 13 and I went to get takeaway. When I came back it was so obvious you and Mick had had sex'.

That's all it said. Who the hell writes that??? Mick was one of numerous men she chased. I remember that incident because I was really relieved that he'd left me alone. Then I remembered the time she left a toy penis hanging off the front door when I came home from school that was from my older sisters boyfriend, the way they left him in the house with me when I was 12 and he was 19, the way he taught me how to masturbate him. That must have been on purpose, mustn't it? Did they know he had sex with me till I was 16 or 17? I never realised it wasn't my fault till I was in my twenties and I saw him at a bus stop with his older brother. The brother said 'I think you look like your 12 and we should go back to mine for a threesome'. I thought no, that's bad, that's dirty, you don't tell other people that. The way my Mother dropped me off at another one of her boyfriends house and left me there for the night.

I feel really stupid and slow and like I deserve everything I got because I'm hitting 40 and only just realised how abusive my mother is. And it's poisoning my life. I can't daydream anymore. It makes me cry. I daydream I get chatting to one of the Strictly Dancing hosts. 'Oh is this being filmed for Strictly? My mother's a paedophile. I don't want her to know I've a child'. I feel like I have to plan for every tiny eventuality, because if anything goes wrong it's THE.WORST.THING.IN.THE.WORLD. no matter how insignificant or tiny it is. My husband's going nuts, he says 'you have to have everything perfect all the time', or 'you never feel like everything's okay do you'.

People write about terrible abuse on other threads and it takes me a while to understand why other posters reply they need to get in touch with rape crisis, because it just does not register with me.

And I'm terrified my Mum or sister will appear on the doorstep or we'll bump into them on holiday. What do I do? How do I protect my daughter? What if I'm still that leaden victim and I just sit there waiting for the humiliation and damage to be over instead of fighting it off? I'm already failing my daughter arguing with her Dad all the time but his Mum's a bona fide nightmare as well, just in different ways.

But at least Mum's at the other end of the country and sister's in a different country. I'm really sorry for all those of you still stuck with abusive families. I don't know what to do with all this dross in my head. It's killing me.

My love, here is the right place for you to start I think.

Have you tried therapy? I'm thinking that a safe place for you to open up and discuss your feelings and why you think the way you do.

Please do,t feel stupid, you are blameless in all this, you were groomed/trained/raised to be abused.

What happened to you was wrong,it should never have happened.

You will not get any recognition or acceptance of blame from your 'mother' or your 'sister', they won't face what they've done. Only monsters do what they did. If these people admitted what they'd done, it'd make them monsters, and they won't allow that.

The best thing you can do is never to have anything to do with them.

Your fear of the harm they could do to you now that you are an adult, married and a mum (congratulations on all that btw!) is irrational.

You didn't have the skills to deal with them as a child, but you're not a child anymore and know that you can ask for help, you can tell, if anyone threatens you or hassles you.

If you ever see either of again, cross the road and walk away. I doubt they'd approach you anyway, because they know what you'll accuse them of, perhaps in front of others.

You have more power here than you think. Listen to your H, breathe in and out, and understand that the best you can do, really is good enough.

Keep talking?

Welcome, Bigfatscardeycat! Feel free to chat here. It's a great place to start unravelling all those emotions and beginning to heal a bit. I've had and continue to get so much help from these boards.

xxx

GoodtoBetter thank you for the reply. I am trying to reduce contact as much as possible but it's difficult because we all live very close to one another and I haven't said anything official. We're not in a position to move and have ended up in the lions den so to speak right in the middle of my parents, sibling and extended family members.

Basically have a very controlling dm who flips at the drop of a hat. Never had a close emotional bond, she spends time with us because she feels she has to but doesn't really want to. I'm only just seeing it all for what it is/was and now I'm enlightened to it I'm really trying to find the strength to confront them and then drop the relationships. There was one confrontation recently where truths were told and no apology was given (which broke my heart) where my eyes were well and truly opened but I've been sucked back in and can't face the mountain that is getting out. I'm rambling and vague because I frightened they somehow know this is where I would be or recognise me - I have absolutely no idea why I would think this but they have a way of getting inside every aspect of my life.

This is effecting my relationship as dp is getting more and more frustrated, I won't let him say anything as it causes problems for me. He often says that he can't understand how I can forgive so much. He can't forgive or forget and it's eating him up. I want to be strong for him. :(

FartoGo I relate to that realisation that comes with having your own dc. How could they have treat me like this? It's made me feel even more unloved when I recognise how intense the love is for my dc.