"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's August 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

But tbh, your DD wouldn't ! Benefit from having contact with this toxic pair AT ALL.

Stand well back, take the money and run!

If you can afford not to take the cash, please cancel the arrangement.

The last thing you need is to be beholden to people like these.

peach I was only discussing emotional 'capability' this week with mine.

We ARE better people and better parents as a result. I wouldn't recommend my path to enlightenment as it's been hell, literally. I will however agree that in a strange way, it's dramatically improved my life all round!

I think I'd benefit from some counselling, but I wouldn't know where to start here and would rather not do it in a foreign language. Think I might get the toxic parents book maybe.

Funny thing happened yesterday. DM phoned to say the camera she bought for DS is faulty and will cost too much in postage to send back. This is to replace the digital camera she bought for his birthday. (He's 5 ). That one he dropped and it will cost more to fix than it cost to buy. I was annoyed as I'd said I didn't think it was a good idea, that a kiddie camera would be best, but she knew better as always.

When his broke she got a cheap one off Amazon for 20 quid but it's faulty. She was saying she felt "low", that she had been stupid buying it online and she shouldn't have bought him the original camera in the first place.

I told her not to worry, these things happen and then she said that when DB had come to visit and hadn't been able to get DS a football kit for his birthday as he has for the last few years she'd inisisted I go and choose a present from DB. I got a remote control car and it worked for about 3 days and then died. She was saying "I pushed you into getting that, I was overbearing". Well, you could have knocked me down with a feather!

Funny how she can see it herself sometimes, but it's like she can't stop herself. But then, she's all "down" and miserable and I'm such a terrible person.....I wonder about touches of bipolar you know...the excitement and overbearing dominance and then the crashes and the self flagellation. Her mother was bipolar and her sister is too.
God, it must be hard work being my mother. It must be so tiring having her brain.

Also, maybe this sounds really spoilt bratty but I've been getting annoyed recently about selling my house to move in with her.

Things would have been tight with DH out of work but we could have managed the mortgage just about. Now, here I am with some money in the bank but never enough to buy again and nobody would give me a mortgage in the current economic climate and even if they would in the future, I don't think I'd get one because of my age....like I'm not going to get a mortgage when I'm 48, am I?

I HAD A HOUSE and I gave it up for her and she repaid me by trying to destroy my marriage. But DB has a property and she wants to help him buy another one.

I've been getting quite angry about giving up my security like that. Agry at her and myself.

GoodtoBetter are you somewhere other than the UK? I think some people do Skype counselling but I can't imagine that, must just be an old fogey I'm sure.

As to your DM saying she feels low, it strikes me as being really guilt trippy. Mine says similar, always when she wants people to feel sorry for her. Are you sure it's not just plain good old narcissism? Anyway, no way are you being bratty not wanting to live with her. Goodness no.

Hissy is it really arrogant of me to wonder how supposedly intelligent people can not realise they're rubbish parents? I mean, if I could see that the way I grew up wasn't good, why couldn't they? That's why it annoys me when people say things like oh, they did the best with what they had. Well, I didn't. I did better, with more than I had.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think I'm a perfect parent. But I'm better than mine were, that much I know to be true.

GoodToBetter what's the rental market like around you?

Peach, emotional intelligence is nothing to do with conventional education!

There are so many on here that don't have 2 degrees to rub together, but they have more EQ than you can shake a stick at!

:)

Can I join? Have been reading these threads for months/years and lots of posters have helped me realise that my mother is toxic/narcissistic/ all about her and getting worse - literally- by the day. It's come to a head recently and I've predictably had all sorts of c**p thrown at me by way of vitriolic emails, texts and veiled, guilt-tripping messages via the kids (adults) and my brother.

I am alternating between anger and sadness, that my mother would be so nasty to me when I have done so much for her over the years (many times with gritted teeth) She is wailing about how I have 'changed' but I think really all it is is that at my grand old age (50, bloody hell) I have finally seen her for what she is and called her on it. And sadness too, that I will never have the mother-daughter relationship that some people seem to have...and that she will now talk so negatively to all and sundry about what a horrible daughter I am.

happy I am in the same situation and it is truly awful

Thank you, noddy, for understanding. It's so hard to talk about with most people. Dh is brilliant but sometimes I just don't want to talk about it AGAIN as it's so draining and circular..

I really do understand. Am struggling this week with all her nastiness

theinvisiblescar.wordpress.com/types-of-emotional-child-abuse/ this is very good It is and was my life to a t!

good I can understand how annoying it is to have sold your house. It's not bratty at all. Will you ever come back to the uk? There are new schemes in place for 'first time buyers' which would work for you, but obv not relevant if you're over there.

My situation isn't the same, but my mum refused to allow her and dad to act as guarantor for my mortgage when I broke up with exP. It's a very long story but it put me into a crap position (which hasn't improved) which could have been avoided with just a signature from my parents. She denies having this conversation or understanding what guarantor meant

I could write an essay on all the strings in that story.

Flump123 is there any benefit to your DD staying in contact with your parents? Also agree that your teenage behaviour may have been in response to parents behaviour, rather than as a result of.

I will take a look noddy, thank you

Hello,

I really feel for you happy. My parents have given my B money to buy a house - well over 10k without him even asking but I asked for 2.5k and I got a one way guilt trip ticket. So I told them to stick it.

I think I'm getting stronger, they always think I'll come back and it will all revert because I feel guilty but not this time. My DD will keep me strong.
She is 9mo and there isn't really any benefit to her having contact other than the empty expensive gifts which I'd rather not have. But my DDs dad is v good with them and happy to be go between to maintain contact. I'm not sure though, we're moving and I don't even want them to have our address really.

My DF has mellowed since becoming a GP and we did move on from the past and he even knows DM is full of crap but too weak to tell her to keep her trap shut if she had nothing nice to say.

I think it's obviously that a lot of bad behaviour is just a cry for love and acceptance, that's definitely why I did it.

I'm waiting now for the guilt texts and calls. Ready to ignore them. I think it would help if they were even sorry! xx

Happy me too. At the grand old age of 47 i actually stand up to dm and see her for the bitter old lady the is. Although i too feel the sadness for not having a normal mum i feel that a weight has been lifted off my shoulders that i do not have to respect her anymore.

Sorry, to be clear. I had a house, which my DM guilt tripped and manipulated me into selling to move in with her and care for her in her "last years" (She was 67 at the time ). Then proceeded to go at DH with both guns until I couldn't stand it any more and we moved out at Xmas (there was a looooong thread on here at the time). We now rent nearby. I have some money in the bank from the house sale, but not enough to buy anywhere and I don't earn enough now to get a mortgage in this climate.
I don't even really want to buy actually and I prefer this rented house to what I had, I'm just annoyed that I had a house and the stability that brings and I gave it up for someone to then treat me like crap.
I'm not sure why it's annoying me so much now, rather than when we first moved out, I just feel like she shafted me financially and I let her.

yy peachmint she said "I'm feeling a bit low actually" and I just want to shout FUCK OFF WITH THE GUILT TRIPPING CRAP! But then I feel bad, if she's upset....but it's always about something so trivial and it's just well, attention seeking, like a child...I'm so low you must come and pat my head and fuss over me. I'm fed up being the adult and the child all in one in that relationship...does my head in.

Hello all.

Can anyone give me some pearls of comfort/wisdom on the issue of the decision (mine) to go no contact with my parents and them not actually giving a shit?

Siblings have decided I'm loopy and I have no contact with them either - missed two siblings weddings over the past month, one I was not invited to anyway.

Strangley, it hurts more than the physically/mentally/sexually abusive childhood that I endured. I thought bringing it all out in the open would help me to accept that I am not crazy but that has spectacularly backfired .

I have never felt so lonely or alone in this world (although I rationally know I have always been). I have DH and 4 DC and I am 'there' for them wholeheartedly and will fight to my death for them. It has struck me full force that there is no one to do that for me and never has been.

Strangely not Strangley!

At least if you decide to go NC you have some control.

I had a neglectful physically and emotionally abusive childhood - I've never figured out whether there was sexual abuse as well. Nothing I did was ever good enough and in the end my mother said she was so disappointed in me that she went NC with me (and my father let her )

This was 25 years ago and she has fielded every attempt that I have made since to contact her by saying I am cruel and refusing to have anything to do with me.

Before we got to that point she had destroyed my marriage with her constant assertions that my husband was gay and in the closet. She's clearly very sick and I don't actually want her in my life (probably still frightened of her actually) but is anyone else in the same situation where a toxic parent has gone NC with them rather than the other way round?

Yes I asked my mum to stop saying terrible things and she cut me dead I have tried a few times but nothing

Flumpy2012 so sorry I got your name so wrong before, posting on phone but thought I'd remembered it x

TTTTT it must be so painful :(

Noddy too. Need to swap back to desktop!!

I'm not the only one then noddy

In a strange way, that helps.