"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's August 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Really struggling at work at the moment. My low self esteem really affects me in my everyday life sometimes. I feel my parents have done such a number on me that even though I'm NC with Dad and hardly see Mum their actions have had lasting effects. I think I see things that aren't there and any criticism I take as rejection. Does any of this make sense?

Sounds perfectly normal to me MomeRaths. Ah! toxic parenting - the gift that keeps on giving.

Has anyone else had variations on number14 from their TP's?

My parents see 'little point ' in contacting me again . It isn't just you. I don't want to see them either , but it is hurtful that they can't see what they've done wrong .

Strangely (today ) they have sent my dcs a postcard from their holidays but not included me and dh.

Bin or shred such a card.

MomeRaths I understand what you're saying about self esteem and how it affects all your life. I've been in a job for years where I feel I don't fit in and haven't always been treated well. But, instead of getting another job I won't apply for other jobs as I feel I am unsuitable/inexperienced/ not capable etc. The thing with this low self esteem is that it stops you reaching for what you want. Years of being told that TP's are disappointed with you affects your life and the vicious cycle keeps going. I am upset today at my father's latest comments. I do some voluntary work (which I prefer to my paid job). But my father in his sneering tone is going on at me that I really don't want to waste my time doing things for 'wasters' who don't appreciate it etc etc. It seems to be something else he thinks I'm doing wrong.

Helles That link was good. I too can relate to no14 (and some others) I have long since given up telling my TP's any problems especially related to mental health. They don't know about a lot of what goes on as they're not really interested and don't have any time or empathy with anyone with mental health issues. I find it easier to pretend all is well.

Spanky. It must be really hurtful for you when they say there's no point in contact. Try to remember it's not you it's them even if they don't agree. I find TP's can't see what they've done/are doing wrong and nothing will change them unfortunately.

Spanky, they ARE contacting you! Via your kids.

Thing is, what they mean by no point in contacting you is that they recognise on some level that they won't make YOU think any different of them, that they know they can't pull you back in so they can hurt you directly again.

So they'll have to make do with hurting you VIA your kids.

Shred and bin anything you get from them. No exceptions.

Don't respond, it only feeds them. A non response will perturbe them WAY more!

I've been reading through this and am so sorry for what you've all been through.

Can I ask if any of this rings any bells ? I grew up being told by my Mum that she took me back to her home country to visit relatives when I was two and wasn't going to come back to the UK and Dad. But she claimed she would have lost custody of me not being from the UK so stayed amd went on to have my Brother for my sake. My Dad (the seperatated 20 years ago) was really shocked when I told him this.

She said my Brother was my Dad's favourite and she tried to protect me from this. Pissed off abroad for a month every summer once I early teens and would just ring once. Cast my Dad into the rol of the bad guy and constantly wanted to talk to me about how he ruined her life. Said that he would go through the bins and walk round the back of the house to spy on us at night when he got home. Undermined every attempt I made to lose weight. Criticised my parenting.

My problem is she now has Dementia and my Brother (who hasn't seen her for 4.5years) and I have fallen out over how to proceed with her care. As a result she is effectively a ward of Social Services. My Brother has fired me and said he is cutting my DH's hours. Apparent,y he only get considers mr to be his sister , I have only my interests at heart and to,d the SW I am 'protecting my inheritance'

Mum told SW I am evil, plotting against her and doesn't want me involved in her care. When I last saw her at start of summer holidays she Said she doesn't want to see me till she is home and then I have hard questions to answer.

I was very upset at first but then weirdly stopped biting my nails properly for the first time in my 44 years. Started thinking about my relationship with Mum in the past. This was partly prompted by the CH she is in who observed she says one thing to me and another to my Brother. Have spoken a fair bit to my Dad too. Him and his new partner have been very very supportive , as have the rest of my family and friends.

My GP has asked me to put myself and my children first, that I was there every step of the way for Mum but now need to protect myself. I've gone away and reflected how awful things were earlier this year for my poor husband and DC and it was absolutely awful. I saw a locum GP about my arm recently and told her the situation and said I thought I might benefit from counselling. She agreed it would be a good idea so I have emailed regular GP for referral.

That is much longer than intended, apologies. I'd welcome any words of wisdom.

Not checked in here for a while as at the moment nothing to report my side which is exeedingly wonderful, but at the same time i'm very sad you guys are filling up this thread so fast. Wish we could all have some tranquility from the toxics not just i.
Something in that fb message sent back to mil must have done some good! Maybe it was the part where i put "stop harassing me"!

I agree with hissy re your troubles spanky, they are still contacting you, just through your children instead. They are using them as a portal to upset you. My sil did similar a while back by getting my nieces to chat to my dc online through moshi monsters, it was obvious sil wrote the messages as there were no spelling mistakes and the punctation was too good for a dyslecsic child & a 7yo!! I had to put a stop to my children using it for a while as they were being pulled in by it.

happy I'm 54, I have gone nc again (see earlier to see why). It's a bit of a relief but takes a while to get over. There is a tremendous sadness that I will never have the Mum I would have liked, or should have had, there is also relief and a bit of fear. The fear is because she has decided to go to all family events in the hopes that I will not. The first is next weekend. I shall go. I have support, I shall be sad, too. My fabulous aunt will be there and I love watching her joke and hug with her dd, but there is a pang of jealousy there too. Understandably. In some ways it will be amusing, she will make it widely known how abominable I am beforehand, and will spend the day making 'innocent' remarks. I shall spend the day calling her on absolutely everything. My sister tells me she's looking forward to it! Hopefully, if I do call her, she'll not bother showing up to the next family do.

Hi everyone, also sad to see how fast this new thread is filling up thanks to the TP's out there : ( I haven't been on in a while as life has just been so busy, and I've had a lovely summer with my dd & have got the hang of blocking out my dm's narc ways & behaviour towards me.

dm clearly realised her controlling ways were not having the same effect as they have previously over the last 30 years! She started to say how depressed she was feeling, she says she's lonely, has no friends, no social life, is a failure, nobody likes her, goes off on a rant in between criticising my dh and then my brother & sil & how awful they are to her. Then back to me, she did her best but is a failure as a mother, we're not close like we used to be - i.e when she used to control me. Then she said it - she loves my dd (her own gc!) to bits, BUT since she was born I've not been so close (controlled!) to her & I put dd first, I'm closer to my dd now than to my dm (!) and she misses me. That's why she's depressed.

She is just unbelievable, never ceases to amaze me her warped thoughts on everything in life. The world revolves around her. Nobody is ever good enough. My 2.5 year old dd is her pride & joy when it suits her, but is taking my attention away from her & making her lonely & depressed apparently. Just crazy eh?

Hi beabea, sounds like my DM...the feeling sorry for herself when not controlling me.
I'm not well at the moment. I have so many mouth ulcers I can't eat or talk and a throat infection. I was off work yesterday, am off today and will almost certainly be off tomorrow. My DM knows this but hasn't been in touch, not even a text, to ask how I am. It's not like she's busy or has a job or a whirlwind social life. I find that so odd. If it were her, I'd send a text asking how she was.

Lessons learned there G2B then eh?

I'm looking to go away for christmas. Well kinda have to, cos staying at home, just me as DS feels so dismal.

Last year I had Boyf, this year no-one.

I'm so down today. How come doing the best thing for you and your child feels so bloody dismal and lonely?

Even chucking silly money at this christmas isn't going to fill the gaping hole in my life is it?

Generally I look at upcoming therapy dates and wonder Wtf to talk about, and question if this is an indulgence.

This week I feel the need for thé session. I feel so flat, punished and undeserving of a full and happy life.

I look around and utter wankers have lives, and I don't. Why IS that? Why not me?

The answer comes in the voices of my family :(

What a big fat failure, how sad a life am I showing my beloved son.

Being in thé right doesn't fucking matter at all, does it?

Lessons learned there G2B then eh?

I'm looking to go away for christmas. Well kinda have to, cos staying at home, just me as DS feels so dismal.

Last year I had Boyf, this year no-one.

I'm so down today. How come doing the best thing for you and your child feels so bloody dismal and lonely?

Even chucking silly money at this christmas isn't going to fill the gaping hole in my life is it?

Generally I look at upcoming therapy dates and wonder Wtf to talk about, and question if this is an indulgence.

This week I feel the need for thé session. I feel so flat, punished and undeserving of a full and happy life.

I look around and utter wankers have lives, and I don't. Why IS that? Why not me?

The answer comes in the voices of my family :(

What a big fat failure, how sad a life am I showing my beloved son.

Being in thé right doesn't fucking matter at all, does it?

Hissy

No, no and no again!.

Being right does bloody well matter!. Its not you, its them.

You are not a failure at all, far from it. You are both a good and strong person. You are showing and teaching your son both good and positive life lessons about relationships, ones that he will carry over into his own adult relationships.

I enjoy reading your posts because you always offer good counsel.

I am also going away for Christmas (about 4500 miles away from here infact!). I can't abide it here at that time of year and I am definitely not spending any of my precious holiday time with the ILs!. Also my parents are not ones to do any sort of big Christmas celebration either so that's yet another reason for leaving it all behind for 2 weeks. I feel a lot bloody happier as well as a result.

Onwards and upwards eh!!. May the angels protect us if all else should fail!!.

A x

Thank you for your support. I got so angry I made myself ill. I had a migraine , followed by an abcess on my nose then hurt my back from being so clenched I guess . When it has been getting the better of me I remind myself of your advice .

Thanks Atilla, I admire your advice often, I have to say!

It just gets me that i'm the one scratching around for a life, and i'm alone.

Alone because i'm not going back for more of the same I suppose. I just look at my life and think how small it is, after all this time.

Being 'right' feels like shit. I worry that people will look at me and think it's me that's the problem.

No matter what I tell them, there's more of them than there are of me. I'm the sore thumb.

I find all this unbearably humiliating!

I don't want it to be like this! If I could unring that bell, unhear the words that have cut me to the core, I bloody well would.

But Dsis did tell me she'd ignored my 'pleas' for text relief from an abusive situation thousands of miles away from civilisation on purpose. Smiling. Proud she was too.

DM did call the abusive ex to wish him well before he left, she did plan a trip to the fecking moon all summer, only telling me on christmas day, weeks before she was due to go (at the same time Ex was leaving). She also did ignore me for a few days upon her return. She also did just move house without telling me where she was going. Yes. That.

It hurts.

If I say anything? 'There are 2 sides of the story'. A.k.a you deserve it.

How do I make it go away?

Therapy is not a luxury . You could talk about how to fill your void yourself . I tried filling mine with food . Didn't work, just got fat! You are strong and giving . You helped me when I was down for no other reason than helping .

I had to go to ds1's school and explain why my parents are not allowed access . I have worked with some of these people ! I understand humiliation . You aren't alone you have decided you don't want to put up with their bulls**t . They want you to think that .

I will keep reading all you words and try and hammer it in.

I know when I post for others, I mean what I say, and genuinely hope they get help/comfort from whatever it is i'm saying.

Why is it so hard to believe when others tell us what we know we've told others?

It's like the love and the warmth of others can't reach us, not like the bad can.

I want to believe it's not me, and in my lucid moments I reason with myself and tell myself that it's not me. But times like now, I struggle.

I want to hear 'there there, it'll be ok' but when the words are said, they don't 'work'

Nothing makes me feel any better. I'm not depressed, just my mood is.

I don't even know what i'm supposed to be aiming for, feeling wise.

It will pass.

This will pass. It'll get easier. Repeats over and over.

Flaming toothache's not helping either!

Thanks to you both, Atilla & Spanky! Appreciate it, I really do!

Xxxx

Hey Hissy, hang in there. Take it an hour at a time or half hour. (I've been down to having a watch with a second hand on it...) You are right, it will pass.

You did right. You did it! It is not an easy thing to break the generational dynamic of passing IT on to your ds.

The long view is hard to keep in focus sometimes. Your ds wil not be trained and brainwashed to treat people (including you) the way you have been treated. He will be an outstanding person, just the way you are.

Be kind to yourself. Create your own traditions that are based on what you like and love. Leave the past.
Take care

Sorry , I did not realize I was creating a link with my IT above.