"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Thread opener here: webaunty.co.uk/mumsnet/
You may need to right-click and 'unblock' it after downloading it.

It's August 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

The way she can't let you finish a conversation, instead there'll be a point, usually just a sentence or so in, when she cuts you off to 'agree' with you (usually she has no actual idea of the point you were heading for, as you've barely begun). She will then relate her own vaguely linked experience without stopping for breath for the next 30 minutes until you forget what you were going to say anyway.

yy to this. Also, telling endless anecdotes about things from the ancient past that you've heard a million times before. My DM dominates conversations with other people, for example if she's with me and a friend of mine. Excruciatingly embarrassing.

Feeling a bit down today. Back to teaching on Monday (and that's probably at the root of this really), although I have to go in tomorrow and Friday morning and sort stuff out. Got a whole load of mouth ulcers and a sore throat and feel half asleep.
Also feeling down about money and the future. DH can't get work, there's just nothing, nothing, nothing. No benefits either. We're careful but we spend more than I earn pretty much every month. I just don't earn enough. We have savings but they won't last forever. I do bits of translation here and there but I'm invoicing illegally as I can't afford to pay the extortionate taxes to be self employed. Have to talk to the accountant I used to use but I think he'll say to bill as a private citizen or risk sanctions from the tax people, but if I do that the agencies I work for will stop offering me work.
My main work have made it clear there's no chance of promotion..they can't even pay me more than 9 months of the year.

Feeling bleak about the future and like a fool. Not connected to my mother particularly but that word "disappointment" is swirling round my head today.

Hello Stately Homes ladies!

I've finally decided to post - been meaning to for a long time.

I have a fabulous Dad and I love my Stepmum. They really did take us to stately homes! My mother is a whole other issue.

Mother left (with my dads best friend) when I was 12. Just vanished - I didn't see her for over a month. Before that she'd been in an affair and preoccupied with it for 2-3 years, and before that she'd been trying to model me into a housewife (!! So not me !!).

After she left they stayed local (Scotland) for about 2 years, then moved to London (her OM was trying to avoid maintenance payments asked for by the Scottish courts) and then France. But in all of it she gave me a really bad vibe for being "clever". I got into Edinburgh University and she didnt care. I got an honours degree, then a distinction in my pgce - she still didnt care.

She really doesn't like my great dh - because he does housework etc - she's declined a cup of tea many times because "he" was making it. That's not a man's job!!

When I was expecting dd1 she had to be persuaded to visit (and was cross that I asked Dad to come first). With ds we had to ask mil first. But with dd2 it really got bad. We were on a Scottish island, I was very unwell with a pregnancy induced kidney condition. Mother came for a visit when I was 35 weeks. In that week I ended up in hospital and was air-ambulanced out to a bigger hospital. Dh heard this at work, phoned my mother and came home (20 mins) and by the time he got there the car was packed and they were booked on the afternoon ferry.

They had nothing important to do - dh had a wife and baby in danger and children of 3y10m and 1y10m, 4 hours travel away and no accomodation.

She visited us in hospital when dd2 was born, and (to her credit) brought my Gran, as dd2's middle name is my Gran's name.

But my kidney problems persisted, I was on high doses of opiate painkillers, and she called social work on me. It was dismissed, but after that she stalked me online (including mumsnet) and printed out pages to send to my GP and psychiatrist (I has bad PND).

At that point I went NC. My sister stopped speaking to me because of it.

Then my lovely Gran died. At the funeral my mother totally blanked me - afterwards, at the tea thing, she joked with my dad - I was sitting opposite and her eyes literally slid over me and dh. I was sent a box of my Gran's stuff when she died. I knew she wanted me to have her wedding and engagement rings (oldest granddaughter) but the box was all the letters I'd sent since I was 4, all the pictures gran had of me, and a stuffed owl (which I love, he's on a chair in my living room).

She has 3 fabulous grandchildren.
Dd1 is 13, a very, very talented artist and already selling her canvases in 2 shops, near the top in most classes at school and playing piano and accordion. Ds is on the school rugby team - it's under 13 and he's 11 - very good at piano and at scouts he's about to be made a patrol leader. His teacher says he's probably the most talented child he's ever taught. Dd2 is a brilliant fiddler, swims for a local competitive team, and has overcome a hip disability.

My mother has chosen to absent herself from this.

Me? I have a borderline personality disorder diagnosis, suffer ongoing bouts of depression, but I'm dealing ok (currently med free for this). I also have a totally unrelated neurological disability that affects my walking, sensation in my hands, feet and face, and gives me extreme fatigue. My mother isn't interested, doesn't care.

Anyway, that's me! I hope you're happy for me to join you. I've read 'toxic parents' and 'when you and your mother can't be friends' and dh has read 'toxic inlaws'.

Really wrong sorry !!

Long!!!!!

welcome weegie sorry for my self pitying rant earlier. i shall remove my head from my arse forthwith :)

Why IS it that we always feel the need to apologise for sharing our stories/feelings?

Is it due to the fractured relationship with our parents?

Welcome weegie, about blooming time! You'll get plenty of support here. It's so good that you have your H to support you too. Well done on keeping the depression at bay!

Welcome and hugs to old and new!

G2B don't do yourself down, you're keeping the family going, just about! I can't imagine how difficult the situation in Spain is, but it can not go on forever.

ONE day, it will get better. Never lose hope!

You know, you're right Hissy. I was thinking today, I feel like poo and have a big week next week and instead of just having a bit of a rest, here I am beating myself up over things I can't change. It's like, there are a few bits to be done in the next few weeks like get DD some new sandals, get some more information about a language qualification I want to do next year, return a faulty extension lead....and yet I find it so hard to just take a day off, relax, stop being a perfectionist.
And then I apologise for "burdening" people on a support thread on the internet.
Where does this never good enough/never doing enough feeling come from? [Hmm] I wonder. DM has always indulged in competitive hardship and hard done byness....what she calls "my leg is more broken than yours" but directed at others...she isn't aware she does it herself.

I'm going to concentrate on the good bits and try not to worry about money. We're doing all we can.

3 positives for today:
had a nice time in the park with DC
DH has cooked something nice for tea
I love my family and they love me

G2B yy to everything you just said in that first paragraph. I could have written that.

I'm really struggling to fight those negative messages at the moment, which is strange because I've been doing pretty well for a long time.

There's a lot going on at the moment and I've turned into shouty mum and I hate myself for it. I'm feeling so low today :(

Sorry to hear you are all going through such tough times, but well done for focusing on the positives in your lifes, don't let the bastards kick you down!!

Not much happening here, and it's lovely. Had a giggle the other day when dh told me off his accidental phonecall to mil whilst using the toilet lol. He text her love you mum and ended up dialing her whilst his phone was in his pocket, aswell as texting her by mistake with aaarrrfff and a few smilies. He phoned her back to apologise, she weren't impressed...oh well

Hoping it's stays quiet here until atleast christmas, that's when trouble will brew.

Sorry everyone is going through some much rubbish.
Hi Weegiemum, it helps to get it out.

Glad things are calm with you pumpkin.

Name, maybe it's just hitting you now you've faced what you suspected about your mum and you've had a visit from her as well. Overload. Go easy on yourself. And it's understandable you're shouty, I'm shouty with mine sometimes.
The baby voice sounds really irritating and quite frankly weird. Glad mine doesn't do that, can't imagine it.

I'm a shit parent when my DM's around cos I feel judged in her presence. She has said I am a "shouty mother" and that I'm "hard" on him. Easy to say when you're not doing the disciplining, isn't it? That makes me sound hard, I'm not...just that she turns it into good cop vs bad cop. Guess who I am?

I live on the other side of the planet from my mother and am about to spend 3 weeks with her (coming over to UK to introduce DD). Any tips for how not to allow her to turn me into a gibbering teary wreck, which is what happened last time (both when she was here when DD was born, and when we were last in the UK about 15 months ago. If I should share any of the story, let me know (as a pp said, I feel a bit embarrraaaed and apologetic about sharing my story.

Wellieboots

Please do not feel neither apologetic nor pathetic about sharing your story!!!.

I have previously read at length about your MIL (shiver), what's the background with regards to your own mother?.

Why visit her at all, let alone for three weeks if she turned you into a wreak last time and the time before?. Genuine question btw.

(Generally speaking, not all grandparents are kind and loving and toxic parents become toxic grandparents. I would argue that if she is too toxic or difficult for you to deal with, she is certainly too toxic for your child to be anywhere around).

If she does start on you I would completely disengage from her altogether and stay in a hotel. Do not go back for more!. Is your DH travelling with you?.

I can't quite believe I decided to post here on Tuesday.

My brother called last night. He was already engaged but they've brought the wedding forward as my sil-to-be is pregnant. They're going to be awesome parents.

However, that means that in 7 weeks I have to see my mother (for the first time since my lovely gran died) and my sister and half-sister who both are on her "side" will be there too.

I'm freaking out. I've had a problem with alcohol in the past and tbh, I'm really drunk. I didn't know how to stop myself today (that's the bpd talking).

I really want/need to be there for my little brother. I'm the only one in the family who likes and clicks with his fiancée. My parents are on holiday in China for 3 weeks. I'm talking to you guys because I've no idea where else to put this?

Hello all,
Have lurked on here on and off since dd was born at the end of last year, but never felt like I should post until now. But now I could really use some perspective from people who understand what it's like to deal with toxic people. I'll never be able to condence it all because most of it is beyond belief to me.
Dh and I have been married nearly six years and married very young about seven month of meeting. When we first met I was told about his difficult past; he was bullied on and off through out primary school and constantly during his time at secondary school. He spent most of his time skipping school but nothing was registered by his family until he was due to sit gcses and failed to turn up. When everything came out (lots of physical abuse and mental bullying) he developed social phobia and would only leave the house very early to go to his grandparents spending most of his time shut away in his bedroom. This was the norm for him for seven years, he was given some counciling as a teenager but this was sabitarged by his mum and he was convinced not to see another counciler when he was too old for the youth service. He was just left to do as he pleased until his mum could no longer claim disability money for him at which point he was literally forced out of the house to work as a night shift cleaner. He could have really struggled but was lucky enough to be taken under the wing of the manager who helped him create some coping stratages and eventually helped him build up some much needed confidence. He decided he wanted to change his life so joined a dating site and we met.
Well as I said our romance was a real whirl wind. He introduced me to his family very early on and we got on really well. They lived close to my uni so I ended up almost living with them during the week. Mil and I were good friends and really close at this time; she loved having another woman in the house and was very keen to mother me. When we decided to get married at the start of the summer she threw herself into helping with the wedding planning and helping us to find to find a flat in the local area, she even came shopping with me to choose my wedding dress. I was so pleased to have a mil I could be friends with.
I had no idea how wrong I was. It was after we were married and settled into our own home that things started to go wrong. Weeks into our marriage dh asked for the money he'd been saving (mil and he had a joint account because he'd not been able to face the bank when he was ill) and was presented with a tiny fraction of the money he'd been carefully saving. Mil insisted it was all he had saved but it should have been enough to pay our rent and bills for the academic year while I was studying in uni, what he had been given wouldn't even pay the rent for one month. We got the account book off her to take dh's name off it and we're given statements at the bank showing the money he'd saved being withdrawn in massive chunks in the run up to the wedding. We later worked out all the extras she'd wanted at the wedding and offered to pay for due to our small budget were paid for out of this and her trip to florida too! There was no way her and fil could afford to pay us back and since her name was on the account she hadn't commmited fraud. Dh confronted her about it and was told the only money she had taken was rent. With nothing we could do about it so we moved on and coped as best we could. Dh took on as many extra hours as he could manage, I worked three different jobs until I went back to uni and had to put in a last minute application to student finance and ask my parents to help out with the rent while I was studying. We got through it but it was a difficult start to married life as we ended up being like ships passing in the night for the better part of two and a half years.
Dh sees his mil and his brothers daily when he finishes work and I issue invites to his family whenever I am able to and go to every family event even if it meant turning up after a thirteen hour shift in my work uniform. Invites to our are never accepted and it's always dh or I calling when we speak to them.
Dh was never entirely happy with his relationship with his parents but could never pinpoint why so it always continued as it had before with us making all the effort. Then around the time dh's job is restructured and has a break down due to the stress it causes him, mil starts telling people I'm pregnant. This comes out via a parent asking me at work asking me when I'll be leaving infront of my manager because she's been led to believe I'm more than 26 weeks pregnant. Mil addmits this when dh asks her saying she was asking the universe to make it happen like she did before dh and I met. Dh continues to visit on and off but I only visit when it's actually convenient and only ever with dh. Working thirteen hours a day six days a week most week means this doesn't happen as much as it previously had.
With lots of hard work we eventually pay off my student overdraft, pay back my parents and have enough saved to move to a bigger place so we finally are able to start ttc. I find out I'm pregnant the first week in our new house. To put it lightly mil and gmil make my pregnancy difficult with the level of involvement they suddenly expect in our lives. Mil manipulates gmil to phoning dh at various points when she is unhappy with how things are not how she wants them. Gmil is as subtual as a sliedge hammer and everytime she calls doesn't even bother to say hello to dh just starts a torent of verbal abuse which at that point dh just puts up with it. At this point dh is now no longer visiting mil on a daily basis as he has finally got his hobbies at home and is close to work. None of this changes with the birth of dd. The first few weeks we are very put upon until mil gets a cold and is unable to visit. We get into our own routnie and ils are not able to visit all day everyday whenever they please so visits are very few and far between.
Poor dh finds himself remembering lots of his childhood in the days after dd was born and really does not feel comfortable around mil, fil or gmil. He was really neglected and basically left to it from the age of five when his first sibling was born to the extent he only ate when he helped himself to sweets and crisps and missed lots of school because no one bothered to take him being the very tip of a titanic sized iceberg. He just can't understand why he was forgotten and his constantly remembering more and more negative things. He really struggled with idea mil having a relationship with dd and became really over protective of her, getting really upset after visits if anyone had held dd for too long or upset her which happened constantly. I get stuck in the middle and have to really presure him to maintain any level of contact. When I get sick of this he dosen't manage actual contact his family for six weeks, but six calls in a row are ignored when I try to arrange to visit with dd.
Gmil then puts in her a typical call. I finally having enough of dh being bullied this way for a number of reasons lose my temper and call mil to introduce her to some hard home truths. Dh thinks his relationship with mil is over and is relieved.
Since then so many unbelievable things have come out of the wood work. Mil was hysterical and fil had to get her sister to calm her down and he has since taken control of the situation and built some bridges with us because he wants a relationship with dd and dh regardless of mil and gmil's involvement. As it turns out there's a twisted family history of issues all of which mil is blaming gmil completely for:
-fil cut almost totally out of his children's lives as it's not a man's job
-fil's mother cut out of dh and his brother's life and cast as the 'devil' woman
-mil's sister being bullied into leaving her two children with mil all day light hours since they were two weeks old up until they started school
-mil being manipulated into saying bad things about us and viewing all our actions as personal attacks against her.

Mil is now not talking to gmil because of this. Fil took her to the gp and she's been put on some type of medication and is due to start therapy in a week or two which fil is insisting she go to. We've seen mil twice and she appears to be very different now and has promised dh she will attend counciling with him when his ready to discuss his childhood issues, something his wanted since his breakdown. We've only seen her with fil because he wants to make sure she behaves.

I'm very confused by the situation and not sure who or what to believe anymore. Dh has decied he wants nothing more to do with gmil after the way his been treated by her but wants to build a closely supervised relationship with mil.

Spelling is probably appalling but not sure how to fully spell check on new phone and dyslexic, sorry.

Such powerful posts that I couldn't just read and run.

weegie the fact that you're turning to alcohol to deal with even the anticipation of seeing them is really worrying. Have you a counsellor to talk to about your alcohol abuse?

As for the wedding, I really don't know what to suggest. There are two options: go or don't go. Afterwards, will you feel worse if you are there or you aren't? Remember, you are not responsible for your sil2b. Presumably, there will be friends and members of her own family there for support. You need to consider your own needs. During the ceremony and the speeches, the environment is fairly structured, could you cope with that and then dash off before the more social part of the day?

Wicked abuse is passed down family lines. We learn how to be parents from our own parents. If your dh wants to try counselling with mil, it might give him the answers he needs. Closure. Then the whole question of contact can be revisited. Don't forget though that fil allowed all that to happen. It isn't the case that just mil and gmil werw the abusers. Fil was too through failing to prevent it. Dh will no doubt have questions for him too.

I wonder if counselling with a neglectful parent would potentially do more harm than good.

Any chance she'll admit to it all? Not re-invent history?

Your H needs counselling to help HIM overcome and manage what SHE did TO HIM.

He can't do anything about what she did, but he can learn to see that it wasn't him that caused it.

I think she wants to attend counselling to control what your H is allowed to say.

I think she needs her own separate counselling first.

Wicked The whole family sound toxic and i think it is good your dh is coming to terms with the fact they were abusive and not wanting them to have a part in your dd life.
He is making positive steps forward in the realisation these people are not good for him to be around.

I wouldn't push for any contact and tbh i would refrain from going to the wedding, maybe there is a good excuse of where else you will be on the day?

It's strange how we don't notice toxic people from the offset, i suppose we become accustomed to their strange ways, i also too didn't notice the toxicisity that would unravel re my dhs family until we started making plans to move out. That's when the problems showed, almost like their true colours became apparent overnight! Of course dh has taken another 7+ years after that to realise the situation just isn't normal.
Slowly but surely we are getting there, apart from one visit in may (niave!) me and dc have now been non contact with ils for more than a year.

Quite frankly my children deserve better. Was not easy, and christmas/birthdays bring with it a lot of emotions with dh & pressure from ils but tbh it was like that before anyway, nothing was good enough for them even then. I owe it to my dc to not allow them into that toxic circle and allow history to repeat itself.

How's everyone today?

I'm feeling a bit twitchy today....

Do you know why that is good?

Money again. Everyone I know seems to be doing well and we're scraping by on 1200 euros a month. I have a degree, I'm not sure how I ended up making such a mess of things; rented accommodation, one crap wage and doing a job with no prospects. I'm nearly forty and I'm in the same position as I was when I first arrived here 12 odd years ago, except now I have 2 kids to look after.
Feel I've made so many bad decisions and just floated along with life, let my mother dictate so much of it, felt not good enough to push for promotion when I should have done and now it's too late.

Listen love, I'm earning now, what I used to pay in TAX!

The situation there is BRAVO, yet you ARE working! you ARE earning, and you ARE keeping things going. If your H keeps trying on the job front, who knows, he might just get something sometime and things would get better.

Could you see if you can offer tutoring to children, or organise bi-lingual playgroups?

Is there anyway if you set yourself up as a company that you could offset the rent against your taxes? I dunno how Spanish taxation works, but I know it's evil!

Sorry, I keep meaning to join this thread properly and then I end up just sticking my toe in the water and disappearing, meaning to come back properly later, and then days go by...the joys of life with an active 10 month old!

So, as I have disclosed on previous messages, I grew up in a dysfunctional family (not too bad but it wasn't great) and I now appear to have ended up with dysfunctional ILs too. Been married 5 and a half years but have only really seen how bad they are since DD was born.
It's going to be an interesting few weeks as we're coming back to the UK (currently down under) for a month, and my DM always seems able to push my buttons, particularly when I see her there rather than here. I have no desire to end up a snivelling mess, as I did last time I was home, or as I did a couple of times while she was here just after DD was born.

To further complicate things, FIL retired recently and PILs are currently on holiday in Europe and will be in London visiting SIL at the same time as us. My issues with my PILs have been well documented elsewhere on MN and I know some of you are familiar with that story.

I minimise what my DM was like (she wasn't a narcissist or anything and she didn't abuse me I don't think). My counsellor (I've had cbt recently thanks to pnd which I am now pretty well recovered from, thank God) reckons it sounds like she may have had pnd with me, but there we have it. But it is easy for me to minimise her when I don't have to talk to her much. Someone asked previously why we were going to see her - I think tbh I just want to be normal, especially given the situation with my ILs who are not interested in DD at all, I want DD have a normal grandparent relationship with my DM, who does love her to bits. We aren't going to stay there for a whole 3 weeks, we're going away for about a week all up, in two separate segments, during the 3 weeks.

I have minimised my past so much that I can't even really write about it unless I get asked questions but let's just say it wasn't that bad but it wasn't that great either. My DM has the ability to make me feel like a piece of crap, without even meaning to (or at least she says she doesn't mean to) and I am petrified about being in that situation again.

So I'm about to go on holidays for a month and I should be excited but as well as that I'm having to think about issues both with DM and PILs and how I'm going to stop them making me feel like shit :(