XP always late - do I have to put up with this for the next 15 years or is there something I can do

[BeCool]

Separated from VA/EA XP over last Xmas.

I just had enough, trying to be in a reasonable healthy relationship with someone who couldn't engage was pointless. I detached, kicked him out. It's not perfect but at least I'm not living with a grumpy abusive sleeping non-listening man.

2 DD's - 2 & 5.

I've always said we need to talk and I would do so when he was ready to have an open, frank and honest conversation without any shouting or bombastic lecturing (his speciality). 8 months on and we've not really talked. Just saying this as clearly there are massive unresolved issues between us - but I have to accept this as he won't engage reasonably. I'm "dealing" with everything by being detached.

We are able to have brief discussions re parenting and he is on board with seeing the DC.

But he is ALWAYS late - every fucking time. Late to collect them. Late to drop them off - this in particular causes me huge anxiety. Even though I know he is always late, I always get very anxious waiting for the DD's to come home (they are driving).

He promises over and over he won't be late. He has never once been on time.
He actually said to me last week he isn't late very often - so he is deluded too. He doesn't consider half an hour late! Sometimes he is 2 hours late bringing them back though he insists he making huge efforts to get them back to me by 7. It seems leaving in time is too much of an effort.

I usually am very detached about it. I do mention it, calmly from time to time especially as late returns on a Sunday leads to nightmare Mondays (esp after the DC have gone to bed very late while staying with him - it takes 3 days to get them back to 'normal' after their weekend with him.) It's just all about HIM and his needs/wants. But I've taken the route of staying as calm as possible thus far and any appeals are on a "what's good for the DC" basis.

This morning though I am really fucking angry. He is taking DC for the day. I made it very very clear I need him to collect before 9am. he promises to do this. I have to get to work as he well knows. He turned up at 9.25. I was late for work. He has no respect for my work and has made this very clear (HIS work on the other hand must come before everything - and is often as excuse as to why he is late). He sent a txt claiming tube trouble - maybe so. But as he is ALWAYS late, I think it is irrelevant. he has an excuse every.single.time.

My work has been so supportive and helpful. I already work less hours than everyone else so i can drop DD at school and collect them from CM after work and I really hate to be late if it can possibly be avoided. They support me and I don't want to take the piss. My boss is irked by lateness. The support of my work is hugely important - I have no family in this country and XP's family haven't spoken to me all year - they support him with the DC but not me. So my work support is doubly important.

I feel completely powerless in the face of this. And now I am mad. Am I going to have to eat this shit for the next goodness knows how many years? OR is there actually something I can do to make him be on time and respect that his issues with timekeeping have knock on effects for me and his DC?

Gosh it's long. I'm really in need of some MN wisdom today.

Solicitor's letter setting out the agreed arrangements.

Yes I should have taken the girls to work. At least it would have made a statement.

I need to crack on with some work now - you have all been marvellous and your support has made a huge difference to my morning and given me food for thought.

I'll be back later though. thank you xx

Can you suggest that if he can't get them home by 5pm on a Sunday for dinner, bed and bathtime that he keep both children overnight on a Sunday and drop to school/CM on Monday morning. That your DC's teacher has commented at how tired she is on Monday mornings and asked if she is getting enough rest/having nightmares etc?

I know you won't want him to keep them on a Sunday night but perhaps the additional faff of having them plus the inevitable consequence for him of being late to work every other Monday might drive an improvement in return times?

Definitely find out where he lives. What happens if he is suddenly ill ffs?

Don't start playing games with your kids. Save up his current behaviour as further evidence of disrespect etc when it comes to your divorce and residency rulings should they become necessary. If you stoop to his level it won't do you any favours.

No, 7pm on Sunday isn't good enough. He doesn't stick to it. He has to bring them back at 4pm on a Sunday.

I would put money on him not doing any homework activities with the children. Could you say bring them home at 4pm so that they can do those at home?

Arrgh I don't know what to say to make him bring them home earlier. Perhaps you could email him and tell him the teacher has been complaining that they are far too tired?

I've gone through this with my ex for 5 years now. It's totally a control thing (as is most of the stuff my ex does unfortunately)

If he's consistently bringing the kids back two hours late, change the contact times and tell him instead of bringing them back at 7 (and him turning up at 9) you need them back at 5. If he does happen to bring them back at 5, great, you get more time with your kids. If he brings them back two hours late, great, they're on time

On days you need to be somewhere, tell him to pick them up one hour earlier than you need him to. On days you have nothing planned, tell him what time you need him to be there, if he doesn't show up within 15 mins after that time, go out with the kids. If he contacts you, tell him he was late and you have plans. Hopefully he will get the idea!

If it's still an issue, I think the main option you have is to stop contact, in the hope that he'll take you to court for visitation. It would then be explained to him that his contact time/days is from A until B, and if he doesn't comply he will be in breach of his contact order.

Also you need to know where he lives. Tell him you will not be allowing him to take the children there until he has told (and preferably proved) where he is living.

"Solicitor's letter setting out the agreed arrangements."
Then what? What happens if he doesn't stick to agreed arrangements?

Gee I feel too powerless don't I.

Whatever I do, I need to feel more powerful in this. He see's me as having all the power. Which is probably why he is doing this.

I did the MN inspired leaving of him - just detached and made him take his stuff and go to his family.

If he repeatedly doesn't keep to arrangements in solicitors letter will I be able to emigrate back to my original country, take the DD's so I will have a family support network? (as much as I'd love to I don;t think I could take the girls this far away from him).

He knows it bothers you so much, seems like its his last tiny bit of control over you and he is effectively using it to get at you and I suspect to control what you do with 'your' time without the children. Hes ensuring you are on a downer instead of enjoying yourself isn't he?

My EX is habitually late, I do all drop offs at the start of visits so I am in control there. he brings them home, I leave the return time pretty open ended so there is no stress of 'they are late' on that point. My children are older now though, I know its harder with young children who need earlier bedtimes.

You definitely need to know where he lives, I would make that a condition of access.

Oh God, I could have written your post.

Always at least 25 minutes late. The latest XH came to pick up the dcs was an hour (and that was out and about so we stood there like lemons for all that time with the dcs asking where dad was), and the latest they've been dropped back was 2 hours late. They are supposed to be home by 6.30 on a Sunday, but it is usually 7.

He no longer sees them regularly so I don't have to put up with it every other weekend anymore, but still.

He once didn't even turn up to drop them off, and "had no phone signal". I had to drive around until I found them at his mate's house. He was all sweetness and light and (out of the Dcs earshot) I lost my cool and swore at him. I then got repeated texts about how inappropriate my behaviour had been and how we needed to be civil.

Due to other factors we are now going to court to sort access. I intend to stick to the agreement to the letter. I can't put up with his pathetic control issues anymore. Children will be presented for contact at the agreed time, if he's more than 15 minutes late (and unlike yours, there is never an excuse or apology) we'll go out for the day and have fun instead. I'll be keeping a diary of times and dates.

It's so disrespectful. I feel for you.

I think if he is late picking up I'd put a stop to "He then comes and meets us wherever we are - so it still doesn't really impact on him" - don't tell him where you are!

Just say "You failed to turn up at the time we agreed, so I have had to take the girls with me on my day out" - end of conversation.

Obviously you can't do that on working days, and I appreciate that if he has the girls on days you work you don't have to pay childcare, but TBH I think I'd say he can't have them on working days any more "Your failure to pick our daughters up at the agreed time meant I was late for work. This caused problems with my employer. Therefore I can no longer agree to you having the girls on the days I work as your persistently poor timekeeping is jeopardising my employment."

Forgot to add, no threats ever actually made a difference to my ex, he was still consistently late.
What I do now is DETACH completely. If he's late, I just hand the children over and don't mention it at all, just bite my tongue and seethe internally.

He's still late picking them up, but generally brings them back half an hour early now. His loss.

BalloonSlayer the timing for this sucks.

Our CM is starting two weeks annual leave today and he is having the DD's from Sunday to Friday morning. But things are slightly different as he will collect the DD's from a friends DD's birthday party on Sunday afternoon & then I am collecting them Friday morning and the DD's and I are going away for a week.

If he is late on Sunday I will just go home with the DD's. But I am replying on him to have them for those 4 days.

I recently asked for his address so I can collect them on the Friday morning, but he says he will be at his Mums and I should collect from there. Swerving giving me his address again! My, as yet unset reply, to that text is "It will be so lovely to catch up with your Mum" which will probably send him into a panic as he won't want me talking cocaine abuse with her. But I may have now missed my moment to send that reply - darn it!

But I am taking this all on board, and come the new term things are going to change.

I will write him a 'formal' email setting things out very clearly. If he does not start to respect time keeping and boundaries then I will have to get really tough re handing the DD's over. I can do tough.

If he can't get them back on time so they are tired I'd tell him, he either brings them home lunchtime Sunday, or takes them to school Monday and you collect them from school.

Equally arrange to be somewhere that you can take the kids, so if he's late you take them.

It is all about control, so try to engineer things that won't disrupt the children or yourself, but will disrupt him if he's late.

It's not fair on you or the kids

YouKnow I don't get apologies.
In fact this morning he just glared angrily at me - though I hadn't said a word to him. I just handed the girls over with their stuff, said goodbye to the DD's and left. He acts all angry WITH ME!!!

kinky mostly I am detached. I agree it can work. But his morning I just got MAD!

MY EX IS A FECKING USELESS TWUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahhhcrap he picks DD up from school once a week.
He was half an hour late to pick her up one day. Poor DD.

Can you be vague with the children as to the plan of seeing him, so they're not too disappointed if you have to ditch it. As in, "you might be seeing Daddy later, but we'll know for sure in a while."
Once you've set out your stall and he knows he can't piss about with you anymore, you may not have to do it again.

There are two possible strategies, try to get him to be on time, or just accept that he won't be. It really depends on his personality which is the best option.

I practice a mixture of both. I have a court order, and if my ex was 2 hours late, I'd be threatening him with the police. This might well be overkill in your circumstances - I do it because on one stage my ex ws 8 hours late with no contact and when my sol got hold of him, he was threatening to keep dd for a full week. So with our history, ex genuinely believes I might call the police. Avoid threats that your ex knows you won't follow through.

For lesser lateness, and for my own sanity, I build in as much leeway as possible. If you really need the dcs to be out the door by 9am, tell him collection time is 8. Expect him to be late, look bored rather than bothered, always have a Plan B.

my ex h used to play games with pick up and drop off times, In the end if I needed to be out by 10 I would say I have to be out by 9, then if he was an hour late I would still be out on time. I did the same with drop off times, I would say I need dd back by 5,(really meant 7) that way xh thought he was winning but wasn't iyswim.

Could you rearrange so he does friday pick up from school and takes them back to school on Monday morning?

This will then lead to the school having to deal with his lateness - but make sure the school are always aware it is his friday for pick up and give them his telephone number every friday pick up - he will act differently from authority from an outsider.

I did this , I also went and arranged other cover last minute and then when he turned up we had gone - he then phoned and I refused point blank to change everything again (I was at work by this time) He went to a solicitor and I wrote my own letter back stating the situation would not have happened if he had not been late and as I work I had made alternative cover.

For a long time he then did turn up on time isn

Now dd's are old and dd2 always gives him an extra hour, so she goes to a club on a saturday morning and she tells him she has to be there for 8.15 so he needs to pick her up at 7.45 - the club starts at 9am. They are always there early dd2 is now 14

So op it will not last forever and there are ways you can handle it

I would agree with others to go out and get on with your life - I would phone him or tell him, just go and leave him then to chase you. Then be very casual oh we will be back in 5 mins just popped out - then take your time dawdle back, if he rings again say we are on our way be back in two minutes kids can't wait to see you....

I do think the lateness is a way of final control of a relationship that is no longer within his grasp.

respect for your DD's ivy! I'm sure mine will also be able to cope eventually too.

BeCool, sorry, I should've known there'd be no apology!

There I was assuming that he was in some way human. Ha!

They are twunts.

yes twunts indeed. It's all about him. The relationship ending was such a huge thing for him. Really? Like the DD's and I weren't affected by it at all? Clueless.

I'm also starting to think I need some help for depression. This shouldn't make me feel so dreadful and helpless. The DD's being away leaves me too empty - I don't think I should be feeling like this.

I've filled in the "are you depressed" form from the doctors a could of times and then lose them. Too depressed to follow through -

I need to prioritise myself a little more. I don't want to feel this down and upset.

I second getting someone else as a go between if possible. You'll find he won't much them around as much.
Exh used to be very late for me too so now we do pick up and drop off via mum. He is on time now. He can do it, just my time isn't at all important to him. Any chance you could do it via a childminder or friends or family? I know it'll be more expensive, but it gets you otr of the equation.

You do. It is hard when they're not there (the dcs that is). It always amazed me that XH would talk about how he wanted time WITHOUT the dcs and was sure I felt the same. I just said, "erm, no. I like spending time with them..."

Get thee to your gp. Unfortunately this constant worry does build up and get to you. It's frustrating that someone you want nothing to do with can disrespect you and leave you feeling powerless to stop it.

Could you arrange 3rd party drop offs? Is that at all possible?

3rd party go betweens really aren't an option.

He has started collecting them from CM on Friday evenings, he was 45 minutes late the first time. Did better the 2nd after I explained to him that CM deserves to start her weekend on time like the rest of the world. And please would he respect her time and life. Luckily she is a very cool and supportive lady. I will think about continuing that although it is hard for me not to see the DD's even if briefly on the Friday. It is hard for them too.

Again it was his "hugely important" it's not job that made him late. Basically he can't bring himself to do a scrap of work before 12 [lazyMF emocon] which of course puts a lot of pressure on his afternoons. And he puts work before everything.

can you pick them up from his on Sundays?