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Original poster

Serious value differences in relationships - what to do?

62 replies

ConflicteD123 · 14/08/2013 18:00

Hi all, would really appreciate some advice/opinions re value/moral differences in a relationship. I've had a big falling out with long term DP over his anti choice stance and I'm not totally sure the sensitivity around this sort of difference of opinion is compatible with continuing the relationship (which is otherwise very good). I obviously don't want to break up when most things are good, but the divide has genuinely been bothering me for a number of months and affects the way I see him, how looked after/cared for I feel as a woman etc. Has anyone ever discussed any value/moral differences through relationship counselling?

It is very important to note that this is mainly a hypothetical/political argument at this point as have never been personally affected by the issue at all (although I may have friends who have), but it has partially arisen now due to large amount of media coverage/campaigns etc. which has resulted from recent changes in Ireland. There will likely be further changes and a referendum in the future. On a personal level I in no way anticipate an accidental/unexpected pregnancy, however I do worry about whether I would feel fully supported in the event of a future pregnancy having one of the severe abnormalities which it is possible to screen for - as have read a bit on other mumsnet topics about this. Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
maja00 · 15/08/2013 12:00

I think differences of opinions is one thing, but something as fundamental as a misogynist stance (or a racist one) would be a difference of values too far. What kind of views would he pass on to your children?

Ragwort · 15/08/2013 12:04

I suppose it would depend on how the other person 'demonstrated' his anti-choice beliefs, I mean if he was genuinely religious, had strong views which he had properly thought out and was a 'moral' person ie: helping others etc etc then I could accept it but probably not if he went around shooting gynacologists, that sort of thing.

I don't think different views on moral/ethical situations are necessarily wrong, my DH and I differ on quite a variety of views, it makes me think more and helps to confirm my own beliefs rather than when I was with someone who had exactly the same views as me - there was no real discussion then Grin.

I have a good friend who is a 'Creationist' - he is a scientist yet absolutely believes that God created the world. I think his views are very interesting, yet I do not accept them.

turkeyboots · 15/08/2013 12:08

If he is an Irish Male his views on this will gave been reinforced by the State and church and he's unlikely to change. Abortion isn't legal in Ireland - and even the exemptions from that aren't clear, so it has been in the news a lot since the tragic death of the poor woman in Galway. So no wonder you are discussing it.

But the Irish are great at hypocrisy (disclaimer am from Galway myself) so doubt these issues would get a second thought if you wanted an abortion.

Vivacia · 15/08/2013 13:29

Obviously, I have no problem with someone who'se anti-choice position is that she would never terminate her own pregnancy

You are implying that her firm views are for herself, not ones she'd impose on another. Therefore, she's pro-choice.

Twinklestein · 15/08/2013 13:41

OP you realise he will be dismissive, sarcastic, & point scoring over every difference of opinion long term?

As regards this issue, we're not talking about a difference of abstract political opinion here, if you're having sex & even contemplating a future with this man, then of course you have to have this sorted out.

It's all very well for him to say he doesn't like thinking about it, but if he's having sex he bloody well should. Abortion, for women, is not just a issue in the paper, it's relevant every single time you have sex.

And don't think this is a catholic thing, because my husband's catholic,
and he's still pro-choice.

Personally I think anti-choice has a strong tendency to be anti-woman.
And coupled with the dismissiveness with he's apparently treated your views, I would be more concerned than simply about this issue.

arsenaltilidie · 15/08/2013 13:42

he really resents me forcing him to talk about it
well no wonder it turns into a point scoring discussion.

fifi669 · 15/08/2013 13:47

As horrible a situation it must be for the mother, in the end the father has no say over the fate of his unborn child. It must be mortifying.

I know that my parents had 4 children. When my mum got pregnant again she had an abortion against my dad's wishes. He said he stopped loving her that day.

I've discussed heavy topics like this with DP, luckily we are in agreement 99% of the time. I think it's natural to pose the hypothetical as it could become your reality. I wouldn't say the results were set in stone though, if you should find yourself in that situation I'm sure everything would be a lot more blurred to both of you.

glastocat · 15/08/2013 13:57

Err why do people think he is Irish? I am Irish and so is my husband, we are both pro choice, I wouldn't have married him if he wasn't.

Chubfuddler · 15/08/2013 14:03

Because the op mentioned Ireland and the recent controversy there

Twinklestein · 15/08/2013 14:08

He said he stopped loving her that day.

How extraordinary. I couldn't stop loving someone for making a decision I disagreed with.

This is precisely the kind of black & white (and totally ruthless) thinking the OP needs to be wary of. It's conceivable her P might do the same.

YoniBottsBumgina · 15/08/2013 14:10

I think it is really, really important to share values actually especially in cases where the issue has even a remote chance to come up in your relationship.

Otherwise, one of you is compromising on things which are important to you, which isn't fair on that person. There is temptation for one person to go against the other's wishes because they think it is okay and the other person is overreacting. Also the possibility that this will happen in secret which is just a whole other can of worms.

Plus I would like to know that if I was unable to comment for some reason or in my absence that my husband would be able to make a choice for me that I morally agreed with. If you have vastly differing values then how can you trust him to do that?

I don't think your values need to be 100% the same but for there to be enough overlap that the above works out.

YoniBottsBumgina · 15/08/2013 14:21

Values and opinions aren't the same thing. I could totally respect [a hypothetical husband] having a different opinion to me on, for example, whether God created the world, to use an example cited earlier in the thread. DP and I have totally different taste in TV and opinions about the same programmes for example. That stuff doesn't matter. But if we had different values about, say, taking drugs, abortion, how children should be brought up, or even something less serious like animal rights, then that's likely to cause conflict in the relationship. You can't - and you shouldn't - compromise on your own moral values.

But equally, it's not fair to expect him to compromise on his either, even if you do find his values offensive. I'm not quite sure what you do with that information if you are already happily married though :(

YoniBottsBumgina · 15/08/2013 14:24

But, if you don't have DC and/or aren't married yet then it would be a dealbreaker for me personally, however hard that would be (and I probably would bury my head about it and want it to go away). Dealbreaker in the incompatibility sense rather than him being some kind of monster, before anybody jumps on me.

fifi669 · 15/08/2013 18:24

twinkle it's not just any decision, it's killing his child to be blunt. Imagine someone making you have an abortion against your wishes. Obviously it is also an attack on your body, but if you wanted that child from the moment you knew it existed and someone took it away from you? It is literally a life and death decision, not a disagreement over tea that night. I get where he's coming from.

Chubfuddler · 15/08/2013 18:26

No it's not a child and its not his decision.

MorrisZapp · 15/08/2013 18:33

Dealbreaker here too. I've had a termination, if my DP was anything other than ok with that, he wouldn't be my DP.

MorrisZapp · 15/08/2013 18:34

To clarify, I had the termination long before I met DP.

EarthMither · 15/08/2013 18:37

Absolute dealbreaker for me too - it's no man's business what any woman chooses to do with her body imo.

fifi669 · 15/08/2013 18:48

Yes it's your body. But whether you like it or not, it is his child. You can float around and call it cells or whatever, but as a mum I can tell you from the moment I saw that second line he was my child.

Rather than it be a deal breaker for the woman, if the man wanted the child I'd think it would be a deal breaker for him.

In this situation, nothing has happened, if you're careful, nothing will. I wouldn't call time on the relationship over a hypothetical unless it was just the latest in a series of clashes over major values.

EarthMither · 15/08/2013 18:53

I think it's extremely concerning to posit that a man could have power over a woman's body because he has impregnated her. What about cases of rape? Should rapists be allowed to veto their victims having abortions? Because that's where your line of argument is going, fifi669

fifi669 · 15/08/2013 18:59

earth that is def not where I'm going at all. It's not concerning to think of your DP in such a situation and not just yourself. Hell, there's even a baby to consider! There's so much man hating on MN sometimes! I didn't say he should be able to veto. I just feel sorry for men as they have no choice. I would understand if their partner went against their wishes to keep the child that they might want to end the relationship. Why you've gone off on a rapist tangent I don't know...

Chubfuddler · 15/08/2013 19:00

It's not man hating to follow the law of this country, which is that a woman has autonomy over her own body.

EarthMither · 15/08/2013 19:02

It is not a "tangent" fifi669, it is an extrapolation of your argument.

And expressing the view that women should have a right to bodily autonomy =/= "man hating".

HTH

Twinklestein · 15/08/2013 19:18

'Man hating' Seriously? Wtf. I've not been here long enough to comment on the whole website but I've not seen any in this thread.

If I were male & wanted a child and the woman I was with decided they couldn't cope with another one, I would respect their wishes. I know how tough pregnancy & child rearing is. I would never pressure someone to go through that if they weren't 100%.

Funnily enough I am aware that abortion is a life/death decision. A decision that may well crop up in the OP's relationship & it can't be brushed under the carpet.

fifi669 · 15/08/2013 19:19

Your extrapolation is ridiculous in this circumstance. No one is going to give a rapist a choice over anything to do with the child.

I've already stated the woman chooses. It's the it's none of his business stuff that gets me. Of course it's the man's business! To think otherwise is pretty man hating. To then jump from a DP to rapists? That's pretty man hating to even bring it up.

Imagine you couldn't have children. You arrange a surrogate, she gets pregnant, changes her mind and aborts your baby later on. It's her body, she can do what she wants. But it was your child. How would you feel? Seriously? I don't think you'd want to be her friend, hence me understanding why a DP might want to end a relationship.

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