"I fell over"

[Phoebefoibles]

Not really sure about this and wanted some outside opinions.

My friend told me she was out for a few drinks, went to the loo, was wearing sky-high heels and bit tipsy (5 margueritas worth of tipsy, plus drinks before leaving house)...missed a step and went sprawling. Resulting in a cut, plus swollen lump on her forehead, black eyes, a split lip, hurt knee and whiplash.

I was amazed that a trip down a step, could do so much damage, and she said it does look bad...so embarrassing etc. But the reason it might be worse than otherwise, was that about a month or so ago, she "walked into a cupboard" - her exact words - so this fall may have opened an 'old wound'.

Does this sound a bit odd to anyone else or is it just me?

My BF missed a step whie drunk and gashed her face and knocked out her two front teeth - ouch!!! She looked liked she'd been hit by a bus and spent months having painful and expensive dental treatment. It does happen.

That's reassuring - quite a lot of people saying it's perfectly plausible.

We actually did laugh about it, but then she mentioned about walking into a cupboard as well, and I suddenly thought "Oh hang on, she actually does sound like a battered wife."

No one to corroborate as it's all coming from her - told over the phone, and I don't know the people she was with.

I suppose if she really was being beaten up, and wanted to hide it, she could just as easily have not mentioned anything.

Yes I do/did have worries over the relationship! Without wishing to dripfeed too much, I posted about it under a different name. The beginning had all the hallmarks of potential for abusiveness - but she has always loyally defended him. It's been a painful few months and a life-long friendship, and maybe my sanity, has been tested - I was losing sleep over it at one point. Mumsnet told me, and told me, to let it go.

We had a bust up and tentatively got back to a healthier-but-less-intense friendship. I stopped trying to wave all the red flags in front of her, realised all I was doing was coming across as controlling and judgey, and accepted that he is going to be in her life, she loves him, and I need to be respectful of that.

Since then, I have kept it very light and steered well clear of the subject of their relationship - other than the odd "ah, that's nice", and have even exchanged a pleasantry or two with him, via her. As time has gone on I have started to believe perhaps I was wrong, and no matter what happened in the past, they click.

Then I went on holiday and we didn't speak for a couple of weeks, and as soon as we got a chance to talk after I got back, she told me of her fall and walking into a cupboard. She knows I worry about her - over-worried if anything.

I'm beginning to wonder if she is addicted to having me worry - the caaahhhh!!!

Well, no more...I will look on it as she has been having a particularly clutzy/boozy few weeks. But just thought I'd check. OK back to mantra "her life...her choice..."

Keep an eye on her. I lied through my teeth about bruises, quite convincingly.

'To cause that much injury to a woman by beating her up, the beating would have to have been really severe and I can't see any woman laughing that off. They would have headed to the nearest refuge.'

I think that is a very dangerous view to hold, particularly given your profession.
The first time I went to A&E, I had a broken nose, bust lip and chipped teeth (punch in the face) I told them i'd fallen down the stairs.
The second time I was sebt to A&E by my boss, I had a smashed kneew cap. My legs were black and blue from the hips down (3 hour sustained assault when he was drunk) I told them i'd fallen off a motorbike

On neither occasion did I leave 'for a refuge' because I was deeply and dangerously emeshed in an abusive relationship.

OP I think you have noticed the red flags and I know that you will be open to keeping an eye out for any further incidents.

I find "walked into a cupboard" pretty dodgy as a reason - I suppose it's because I've never known anyone in RL have an accident like that rather than it being impossible.

The damage from a drunken fall I find much more plausible, and the accident more likely. Where was she when it happened? If by a loo, then did she go there with female friends, or were there women around? Any discreet way of checking the circumstances?

I would be worried too.

:) I actually fell down the stairs with a glass of wine in my hand.... I banged and bruised my elbow, twisted my ankle, bumped my head but... I didn't spill a drop of wine! And I wasn't sober at the time either!

Have you, or do you know anyone who has walked into a door/cupboard and got a black eye? I don't.

I think I remember your other thread under a NC and I won't out you by mentioning details but from what you have said previously, I think you need to keep an eye on your friend.

A 3rd incident would be hard to ignore I think

myroom I had a friend who was in a dodgy relationship. One night in the pub she walked into the doorframe - completely sober - and gave herself a black eye. If I hadn't seen it myself I would have been

I'm not saying it's not DV (and sneeze it's bollocks to suppose that all serious injuries are reported to the police - my mother didn't report a broken jaw FFS). It's probably worth keeping an eye out and being there for your friend if she needs it. Hopefully it's nothing.

She said she was on a night out with bf and some mates - had a few, was tipsy, went to the ladies on her own, where there was a step down, at the entrance. She didn't see it, and lost her balance and slipped.

We were discussing how it can happen that her forehead ends up with a massive swollen lump, and her lip is split, but her teeth and nose somehow avoided injury if she landed on her face - she seemed as flummoxed by it as I was - just couldn't remember how it happened. She said afterwards she sort of staggered back and everyone was asking if she was alright, and at that point her forehead wasn't too bad as the lump hadn't come up yet - she sat there for a bit clutching her head going "Ow"...and after a few minutes her bf said he'd better take her home. I can't check any of it - just have to take her word for it.

To me, "I walked into a cupboard" sounds like a textbook dv denial. It seems like such a massive cliche that as soon as she said it I almost laughed thinking she was having me on - but there was no hint of irony! Still, she sounded strong on the phone, laughing about the whole thing - "I can't believe I did that, omg that was so embarrassing!" etc.

FWIW I've walked into a cupboard door, knocked myself out. My then partner was safe from suspicion though, as the incident was witnessed by all our housemates...

Btw I am marvelling at the amount of accident prone people on mumsnet.

Apart from myroomisatip - that is grace under fire!

I'm sure people think my boyfriend hits me. There is always an injury, but the genuine truth is that I have loose ankle bones, and it makes me accident prone.

Sounds dodgy to me. The only times I've 'walked into a cupboard door' are when I've left a door open whilst emptying the dishwasher and have whacked the top of my head on the door when standing up.

And the only times I've had a black eye were when I was 4 and roller skating and crashed into our sideboard and about 23 years ago when toddler DS chucked a ball at me which hit me before I knew it was coming, breaking my specs and almost breaking my nose. I had a cracking shiner after that.

But your friend's injuries sound like my friend's injuries whilst she was living with a violent abuser. Just like my friend she will never admit it so just be there for her. As hard as it is be patient. Yes the injuries may well be totally accidental but it sounds well dodgy.

OP you said she said she'd missed a step. Was that going up the stairs or down? Tripping upwards probably wouldn't damage ankles or feet as much as falling downwards, and if she didn't put her hands out quick enough she could have landed on her face.

BUT if she's constantly having these "little accidents" especially when no one can see her then I would be concerned, either about too much alcohol or an abusive relationship.

My dp fell over losses once and his face looked like he'd been set about by a gang armed with base ball bats.
That said, 2 in such short time is fishy, keep.a close eye, another is a big red flag IME.

Did she used to have these sorts of accidents before she met him?

It could be genuine, of course it could.

But you're posting here because you know that there's a chance she's covering up DV. Just on a point of clarity, you said she told you she'd walked into a cupboard when you came back from holiday - does that mean she hadn't needed to tell you about that, because the bruises sustained by that would have gone by the time she told you?

If so, then the alarm bells would not just be ringing vaguely in the background, they'd be sounding out the alarm in the foreground. Sometimes people aren't always straightforward and rational. If she is being subjected to violence, at the same time she wants you to support her relationship and not make you think bad things about her partner, she will also be wanting to tell you what's happening so that she's not so alone. But she can't tell you directly because you'd be horrified, want her to call the police, want her to end the relationship etc. So she tells you obliquely by telling you the classic DV cover-story along with another one. It's her way of telling you and not telling you at the same time.

This could all be rubbish of course, because it could all be genuine accidents. But I personally would go along with what your gut instinct is telling you - that something here is not quite right.

Groan, pissed!

It's unusual (but not improssible) to get two black eyes at the same time accidentally.

Phoedes Yep, some of us are accident prone. I knocked myself clean out once. Spilt some water by the sink, bent down to wipe it up and whacked the top of my head on the granite worktop as I stood up sharply. OH, not that has ever hit me, wasn't in the house at the time. Just me and DDs. Another time I tried to rearrange food in a processor with a chef knife, while the fucking thing was chopping.The knife whizzed by my head close enough to move my hair, and both of us have hit out heads on cupboard doors.

Accidents do happen, but mostly people know what they've done and don't give vague don't ask me type answers.

I think I recognise you too OP. Something about a photo?

I'd definitely be worried, but as you say, maybe that's what she wants. Otherwise why mention it?

if it happens again then i would be asking questions. I tripped (fully sober) over a door step and landed on my face recently - i looked dreadful - grazed forehead, lip, hands and knees.

but a one off fall is one thing. regular injuries would have me asking some questions.

I once fell over and got a massive bruise across my face, exactly as if someone had hit me.
Only one person out of dozens at the schoolgate, church etc, asked me how I had done it. Imagine how depressing that would be if you were being battered by your partner.

I fell down a flight of stairs at a party after changing from heels to flats trying to be sensible, ended up in hospital with a massive cut and bruise to my head, a badly sprained ankle and two horrific black eyes that dripped purple and yellow down my face over 2 weeks. I've cracked my head on lots of open cupboard.

I'm pretty certain my work colleagues thought my partner was responsible, but they accepted my story. It was able to be corroborated.

Can you check with a third party?

SisterMonicaJoan and Tallwivglasses - if I am who you think, then thanks for not outing me. I'm trying to be a better friend. I said far too much, before - and needed some distance.

Just needed to some objective opinions on this.

BasilBabyEater - no, she was not particularly prone to these sorts of accidents before meeting him.

Just on a point of clarity, you said she told you she'd walked into a cupboard when you came back from holiday - does that mean she hadn't needed to tell you about that, because the bruises sustained by that would have gone by the time she told you?

Strictly speaking she hadn't 'needed' to tell me about the fall, nor the cupboard, since I am not likely to see any bruses unless she tells me about them herself. It's struck me as maybe a bit odd that she told me as much detail as she did about the fall - down to the puzzling combination of forehead bump and split lip, but teeth and nose OK. Then talking about the cupboard when I was sounding a bit puzzled, or maybe because I was laughing with her about it and not taking it too seriously.

I wasn't on holiday a month or so ago, when the cupboard incident happened, and we must've spoken around then, but she didn't mention anything. Ostensibly she only mentioned it now, to help justify why her forehead came up in such a lump and a cut (reopening an old cut from a month or so ago. Thing is, wouldn't it have healed by then? That bit sounds a bit dodgy).

If so, then the alarm bells would not just be ringing vaguely in the background, they'd be sounding out the alarm in the foreground. Sometimes people aren't always straightforward and rational. If she is being subjected to violence, at the same time she wants you to support her relationship and not make you think bad things about her partner, she will also be wanting to tell you what's happening so that she's not so alone. But she can't tell you directly because you'd be horrified, want her to call the police, want her to end the relationship etc. So she tells you obliquely by telling you the classic DV cover-story along with another one. It's her way of telling you and not telling you at the same time.

I think I sort of see what you mean, and maybe that's why I think there's something a bit odd about it. If everything is fine, and knowing that I've been really worried about their relationship, and how I've not been keen on her bf, why would she tell me all this, and use classic DV phrases like 'I walked into a cupboard'?

If it's not all fine, why would she sing his praises so highly, hint at DV, yet provide the cover story? I don't really get it. Something is a bit off-kilter, my instincts are telling me, but I don't know what.

She says he's been lovely to her though - if she was being hit, would she sound so enthusiastic and positive about the relationship?

So if she mentions something again - I'll ask her if she's really alright. I'm hoping she is. I just wish she wouldn't keep ticking all the DV boxes, seemingly inadvertently.

I used all the textbook excuses as if I was daring someone to challenge me. I fell up stairs, down stairs, walked into doors, bumped my head on numerous cupboards. I had a huge fist shaped bruise on my arm that I acquired 'walking into a door' that no one ever questioned. I was holding my newborn baby when that one happened.

Yet I also was enthusiastic and positive until the day I kicked his sorry arse out.

As for going into a refuge? What an utterly naive thing to say. Refuges were for battered women and I wasn't one of those, my ex just had a little problem with his temper, a stressful job. And I did wind him up, I mean I wasn't perfect and used to make mistakes so is it any wonder thst he used to get a bit cross with me? And he just didn't realise his own strength you see. He didn't realise that I cried during sex. He never meant to hurt me... Besides I'm middle class dammit, I wasn't a victim of dv. Before anyone jumps on me I know now how utterly wrong I was and how utterly stupid it sounds.

Yet that's the way it was for me.