i think I'm a narc...

[Tuppence2]

Please be gentle as realisation has hit and I'm feeling pretty fragile.
After reading a lot of the threads on here re narc parents, partners, etc, I have come to realise I am a narcissist... I have a lot of the personality traits and always turn a situation round to me.
How do I stop myself from getting worse? I have always been quite spoilt and selfish (only child to a single parent) and even now, aged 27, can still throw a tantrum worthy of a toddler!
I would say I am quite a caring considerate person, and I am always helping out friends and family, but I have come to realise I always get some benefit from this, whether its conscious or not...
I just want to change from being so self centred, but I fear its so ingrained in me already, that I will be fighting a losing battle

I'm no expert but I think the fact you've noticed and want to change is a gigantic step in the right direction!

I am always helping out friends and family, but I have come to realise I always get some benefit from this, whether its conscious or not...

Don't beat yourself up over this, we are all selfish. True altuism doesn't exist. The simple fact your recognising your issues/problems is the biggest step to fixing them.

I don't know if this will helpor not, but one of the diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder is not being able to identify, acknowledge or accept one's own narcissism.

You may have some narcissistic tendencies (which everyone does to a small extent, actually, as they are a self-preservation tool), or you may have aspects of some other personality disorder (BPD shares some behavioural traits with NPD). OR you might just be a person who is a tiny bit more self-centred than average as a result of their upbringing - or not, you might just be imagining that you are - and you don't like that aspect about yourself. As you approach 30, you may be starting to recognise more immature aspects of yourself and wanting to change those, which is healthy and positive. As Keepithidden says above, true altruism doesn't exist. Even the most saintly, selfless giver gets something from their actions (a feeling of worth, of having done good, of having a certain status, etc. And there's nothing wrong with that at all).

If you truly want to change, then you should investigate having therapy. It isn't just for people who are seriously troubled or disturbed. Indeed, if you basically a balanced person who has aspects of herself that she wishes to work on, then there is no reason why you shouldn't be successful in making positive changes.

Regarding the tantrums, you can work on it. What causes them?

Regarding the help, it's normal behaviour. We tend to help those who reciprocate and avoid those who don't if they are able to.

You are narc if you need to feel superior to others, at their expense, even putting them down to make yourself feel better.

I don't think you can be a narc if you recognise that in yourself - one of the symptoms is lack of insight.

You mention the tantrums. So ask yourself, what's going on in your head when they occur. Why the loss of control (and with it the loss of adult dignity)? What triggers the tantrums? Why are you unable to behave like a rational adult at those times?

These are just a few starter questions based on your own description which solely cites the tantrum behaviour as evidence of your concern.

There is a rather unattractive (personality-wise) man called Sam Vaknin who seems to be a self-aware narc. Although he uses his self-diagnosis to get more famous and excuse any bad behaviour, as far as I can tell.

If you're becoming aware of this and want to change, then try two things:

Firstly, try spending more time thinking about family and friends than you do at the moment. Focus on one person and remember your last conversation with them; think about what you know about them, how they feel about stuff, what you'd like to know about them.

Secondly, if you become aware in conversation that you're not listening to others, but just thinking about yourself, stop. Listen. Refuse to participate. Concentrate on trying to empathise with those around you.

Ignore if my suggestions sound bonkers, but it's basically what I did in my 20s when I felt I was unhealthily self-interested.

Tuppence, you're not a narcissist. A true narc can never recognise the signs of narcissism in him / herself. They just haven't got the capacity to reflect on their own behaviour in that way.

It might be true that you're more self-centred than you'd like to be. But the good news is, now you've recognised that trait in yourself, you can do something about it.

I don't think you'd be fighting a losing battle trying to do something about it. A lot of people change considerably in their late twenties / early thirties. This is probably a good time for you to do something about it.

You don't mention in your post, but do you have children, or a partner? Or nieces & nephews? Sometimes watching good parents interact with their children can make a light go on in your head for how 'good' interaction can work.

Do you think this sort of thing might have roots in the way you were parented yourself? If so, you might find some form of psychotherapy / counselling useful.

Thank you for all of your replies!
OxfordBags What you say about NPD and BPD makes good sense as I have been diagnosed with depression and been on and off ADs for a few years. I have often thought about therapy regarding a lot of my issues so definitely think pursuing that would be a good idea. The self preservation, I guess, could be a result of being terrified of rejection and mentally blocking out other awful things that happened to me when I was young.
Lweji and Runningonwillpower Any stupid little thing can cause them... I used to have panic attacks if I was due to go shopping in town with my mum and I was having a "fat day". I'd end up in tears, screaming and shouting, throwing stuff around, and not leaving the house because I'd worked myself up that much! (Think a toddler not wanting to wear their shoes... Except I was in my late teens!) And things like people cancelling plans. Yes, it's annoying, but to me this blows up akin to someone saying they hate me and never want to see me again... It's hard to explain. I try to stop and think clearly about it, but my perspective gets skewed, my breathing goes haywire and the tears come in rivers! And even when I know I'm being unreasonable, I can't stop it, it's like an out of body experience. And while I haven't self harmed, I have thought about it, as a release. And I have attempted suicide on more than 1 occasion.
CharlotteCollinsismovingon I understand what you're saying, thank you. they sound like good starting points to make headway in my close relationships
WeGotTheKrunk Yes I have dd, and a dp (not her father, and we don't live together) my tantrums drive him to the edge of crazy! Weirdly none of my crazy presents itself in front of dd, but as I become more self aware, I realise it could have an awful effect on her. Especially when I read posts on here about narc mums... I don't want my dd to be in that position as she grows up. I would say it was more the way I wasn't parented that is the root of this whole thing. My mum was amazing, but my dad was so disinterested in me growing up (saw me 3 times a year, even though he had more than enough time and my mum would never have stopped me seeing him more) I craved his attention and was desperate to be a daddy's girl, like my friends were.

Sorry for the mammoth self pity post... Just working my way through my tangled mess of a head space!

Are you sure these are not panic attacks?
Have you talked to a professional about them?

Figuring yourself out in an effort to be a better person is not self pity. :)

Please look up Borderline Personality Disorder. This sounds infinitely more likely than Narcissism, based on what you have described - which is good news as it's much, much easier to treat through therapy. I think it can be easy to get the two mixed up but they are actually quite different.

I'm very sure you don't have NPD as you almost certainly wouldn't be able to identify it in yourself and would not be willing to look candidly at your own behaviour at all.

Lweji The panic attacks I mentioned above, were different to the tantrums in that they came on so quick, I couldn't control them. Whereas I feel aware of the tantrums, and know there is no reason for them but they happen, does that make sense? I can't really describe it very well, but I feel a difference between the two events...
The only professional I have spoken to was my GP who retired last year, and she was referring me to the mental health team who work alongside my GPs surgery, but by the time the referral went through, I was over that bad spell and so didn't see the point in arranging an appointment.

Sometimes I do feel like I am just being dramatic, and making things seem worse than they are. And it's a hard thing to talk about with people who know me, as they just think I'm an emotional, selfish, drama queen...
It's like the selfish narc in me is a cover to stop myself getting hurt, but in reality, it means I end up hurting myself by pushing people away and hurting them too... It's like I'm a little girl playing at being a grown up...

OP I get like that when people change plans at the last minute. Not the tantrum bit but I can be reduced to tears - neck feels tight and tummy flips. I was told by my therapist it is about having control because my child hood was very tumulus and I fear not knowing where I stand/having a plan. I get het up with people that do this frequently (letting me down over plans) as they are unstable, and what I crave is stability.
I hope that helps, it helped me realise why some things seem to trigger tears or a massive emotional response in me, where others seem to be able to brush it off. It doesn't help that I don't have much self confidence at the moment and always feel the person brushing me off has more interesting people to see! (Therapist said that is just me beating myself up and I need to be kinder to myself - other people just don't think about the effects letting friends down can have if they aren't bothered in the same way, IYKWIM).

childhood and tumultus - sorry spell check going weird!

JacqueslePeacock Thank you for your post, I have done one of those quick online tests and it came out with both paranoid and borderline PDs... I read up a bit more on them tomorrow. It scares me to think I could've just carried on like I was without realising what I was doing and that it could maybe and probably has spoilt relationships/friendships.
Lioninthesun What you have posted makes absolute sense to me. Although I knew when my dad would visit, it was always me making the effort with him, and wanting to show off school work and make him proud (even when in primary school, so a very young age) And I totally get the whole "the have had a better offer" situation, lack of self confidence/esteem only makes that feeling worse, and it's like a never ending circle! It's always good to hear you're not alone in feeling like this, but I am sorry that you feel this way too! Can I ask what therapy you have? As this will be my next focus, and our situations sound similar in this aspect.
Thanks again to everyone for taking time to reply

Good luck OP, hope you manage to find the help you need.

You can't be a narc if you recognise it in yourself.

Far more likely is that you're just very selfish or beating yourself up about something which you probably don't need to. One of the two.

Feeling insecure can lead to selfish behaviour (self-preservation gone haywire). So I think, paradoxically, focusing on you & your needs (not your wants): building up your confidence and improving self-care and assertiveness may make you less selfish in the long run?

Also: being let down at the last minute is pants, and people who do this to me repeatedly...I don't know, I find it hard to consider them friends.

(Speaking as someone who went through a not dissimilar patch recently)

another narc marking her place

OP, I suggested BPD, as someone close to me has it, and what you wrote rang a bell. The further post about freaking out over leaving the house sounds very BPD-ish, and it's interested that you did a test that gave you that result.

BUT! Do not diagnose yourself - or let internet strangers like me! - try and find a reliable therapist and open up these fears you have about your behaviour and feelings. You might have a PD, which you can work through (people can recover from BPD, for example, despite the common misconceptions about it), or you might just have a lot of personal and childhood issues to work through, but either way, therapy aounds thebest route for you, especially as you know it has helped you in the past.

Problems are so multi-layered; you can heal the top layers and coast along feeling okay or even great for a while, but then the bottom layers start making themselves felt and it's time to do work on them. That's how I see big problems, anyway.

And I get worked up over stuff the way you and Lioninthesun describe. I'm also working on not being so down on myself.

(As an aside, you sound thoughtful and lovely, certainly not narcissistic - and not lovely as in charming like a narc, either, IYKWIM)

Ha, UseHerName you saw right through me!
I've been thinking a lot about this today, and it's like I have extreme reactions to simple things... There's a lot to be thinking about!
OxfordBags You've made a lot of sense, thank you. I also know what you mean about self diagnosis. I think I will try to get an appointment with my GP and explain what happened wrt the appointment with the MH team that I was meant to have and see if we can get that moving along again. My previous GP seemed just "get" me, and so I hope she has some good notes for her replacement to see, to save me raking over everything to get to where I need to be.
And hopefully, if get a label on "it" I can start to sort through all of the messy bits to get rid of the label.

Your not a Narc! As above you would not realise but if you did then find out you were via diagnosis you'd want to be the best Narc not cure yourself and saying to UseHerName...I'm a better Narc than you

Hi OP - only just seen your reply. I saw a psychotherapist for 6 sessions via NHS. She was much better than the counsellor I had years ago and really seemed to get it and tell me why I found things tricky. She didn't give answers but was making connections and telling me she could see why I had the reactions I had to situations. The counsellor very much asked me to answer things myself, which I didn't found very useful as I do that enough alone anyway! I didn't ask for a special service from Doc, but he put me on antidepressants just before Christmas and referred me for sessions at the same time. Was luck of the draw I got this wonderful lady!

Ha, Seaofyou maybe I'm just the worst narc, and that would make me the best of the worst?
I definitely feel more drawn to (if that's the right word) BPD the more I read about it, so will be going to speak to my GP as soon as I can, as there's lots of other issues going on, where everything that I've already mentioned isn't even scratching the surface.
Lioninthesun thanks for your reply. I think that's what I need to do, clearly see the connections and work out better outcomes
I know its not a 1 size fits all thing with therapy, but I really want to look into it, sort my issues out and get to the bottom of my drama! Most days its like my crazy life would Jeremy Kyle a breakdown!

oh Tuppence, I'm sorry - I wasn't saying that you're a narc, I was just saying that I identify with what you're saying.

See? Typical narc behaviour on my part - diverting the thread to be all about me

whoops

is it possible to be a narc if you are able to recognise yourself as such? surely an inherent trait of narcissism is that you are oblivious to the fact you might be in the wrong?