Dear Mum

[NameChangeToGo]

You've just left and as usual, I feel broken. Sad and guilty and hopeless and, oddly but as always, ill.

Our relationship is the most complicated and saddening thing in my life. My friends simply don't understand it, but I make a point of keeping you out of my 'real' life as much as I can, so they only see a very small side of you. DH and SIL get it, at least to some extent.

To anybody else, I think I would seem quite 2 dimensional given the limited input you get from me. But given that you don't actually seem to see me as a separate entity, rather as an extension of yourself, I don't suppose that really matters. It's a claustrophobic and stifling perspective. The disappointment whenever a situation occurs which clearly disputes this is palpable but is soon 'rewritten' and forgotten.

You consider yourself to be so 'nice' that any perceived criticism results in an extreme defensive response. I always end up feeling as if I've just booted a small puppy, no matter how light-hearted or innocuous the comment.

You are a little girl in a women's body. You consider your childish affectations to be somehow charming. I champion strong women and it pains me that the woman I should be able to look up to and respect is such a child.

Your ability to turn every topic of conversation, every achievement of mine, everything my children do, even the bloody weather onto yourself is mind blowing. I still can't quite fathom how you can be so self-deprecating and so self-obsessed at the same time.

You seem to think you are a big help. In reality, you do nothing except add another person trying to claim my full and constant attention to the mix. I'm not sure how you aren't embarrassed to just lounge on the sofa while we run around organising or clearing up after family get-togethers.

I can't hug you or tell you I love you. I turned it off during my teenage years (a very dark time at home for me) and can't turn it back on again. I hate it when you touch me.

You have lied and manipulated, and when challenged you deny everything. It's all done in your little girl, I'm just so nice persona, and it leaves me disorientated about what is real. You also make stuff up in order to appear empathetic. Or to make a point. Or to make you sound more wise. Or for a hundred other reasons. If we challenge you on it, the booted puppy makes a reappearance.

You fill every pause in conversation by telling us how much you love us or love spending time with us. This should be a wonderful thing but it feels stifling. Something about the rise in intonation at the end and the pause which suggests you're again fishing for validation (the search for validation, about everything from your clothes to your opinions, is constant and draining). Is it wonderful to see us? Can it really be wonderful for you while I'm struggling so much just to be in the same room as you? Probably not and it again means that it's not clear quite how much of it is truth.

When you're around, I can hardly breathe. My stomach is tight and there have been occasions when I've had to fight a panic attack. There is no other time when I feel like this. The only way I can cope is to switch a part of myself off when I'm with you. But your words about how much you love us are in my psyche, even though I doubt their truth, and it means that as soon as you've left I feel cripplingly guilty.

In many ways I would love to cut you out but know that I will never be able to. I wish I could find a way to allow us to get on, but I think I finally have to accept that it's never going to happen. Every single time I let my guard down I regret it. I don't know what the answer is and I'm so, so tired.

I phoned her and it was the usual old crap.

One of the strangest things for me, linked to the 'amnesia' I guess, is that on some deep rooted level I can't quite shake the feeling that next time it will be better. Or that if I could just be a bit more tolerant it would be fine. Despite decades of evidence to the contrary. But I would have to actively ignore her to not speak to her. Do you think that's what makes you phone your mum?

She's obviously in a strop. I last phoned on Monday and mentioned DD had vomiting and diarrhoea. I thought she'd text to ask after her in a few days.....nothing. So I got a bit annoyed because when DS was ill last month (with a slight urine infection) on a Sunday she asked after him by the Tuesday. So, I thought...hmm...wonder how long she'll leave it. We're on holiday, she can ring or text me if she wants...nothing. It's Saturday and nothing so I decided to phone so she can't accuse me of abandoning her or anything. And it's all the sad sounding short answers. It's hot, blah blah. No attempt at conversation. Obviously feeling all woe is me, alone, abandoned, they don't even phone me blah blah. So after about 5 minutes of trying to get blood out of the proverbial stone I said it was time to put the kids to bed and I'd send a text with a photo of them, which I've just done and there's been no response.
This is because I haven't been phoning every couple of days like I used to do. But really....it's only been 5 days...why can't she just text? Why does she do that, never ring and then throw a pouty wobbly when people don't go running after her?

yy I spent years desperately trying to "fix" things, to make her happy, to the point where she came first in everything, we ended up living with her and she took up so much head space and nothing I did ever made things better, in fact she just got more and more difficult and miserable. There is a deep rooted urge in me to be perfect, make things perfect or her. And that is what I'm trying to stop and what she doesn't like. It's a hard habit to break.

S2S and others asked some really insightful questions earlier up thread about moving on from mum's behaviour and focusing on my own... When DH is out tomorrow eve and my head has settled a bit after all that I've realised, I'm going to back and try to answer them.. Maybe we should do some of them together?!!

Good idea Name (and sorry if I'm hijacking your thread a bit).

I'm going to have a good think about this from S2S:
It seems to me that your mother has an issue with boundaries - where she ends and other people begin. And she has to be made happy by others all the time, regardless of their actual thoughts and needs.

So whats your plan for now?

And if you did not have her and the guilt to contend with, what would your plan be? x and is there a differenmce, and if it has to be different because of her response, then you are being controlled by someone else's behaviour (guilt, fear, sense of obligation, demands etc) - and that is no way to live....and it is OK to tell them this, point blank, and then cut them off for a while......x

Much less lonely with a hijack

And yes, that's the part I've had bouncing around in my head, though I haven't found a clear space to actually answer it yet!

I had similar (not identical) experiences with my mother but what is interesting is the effect she has on you physically.

You're describing what was happening to me - but the effects started to control my whole life. When I got married I moved away - she moved as well to be close. I felt despair like nothing before - I could never be free.

Nearly three years ago I cut all contact. It was the most painful thing I ever had to do and I still feel distraught some days that I have no family at all now ( they feel sorry for her and cannot understand the effect she had on me). But she was making me mentally and physically very ill.

I can only suggest the same action for you because I cannot even conceive of living like I was for ever...I would have ended my life. Please put yourself first - you need to protect yourself.

You both describe something which scares me - my mum currently lives a long way (plane ride) away, so while her visits are frequent and increasingly long (which needs to be more carefully controlled...) she cannot be part of my everyday life.

However, she talks A LOT about moving close to us. I honestly think that she thinks she might move in with us one day. Which simply cannot be an option and yes, I need to protect myself and my family from this.

youcanring that sounds incredibly tough, you must be so strong to have cut contact.

Yes, be careful. I moved across Europe and my bonkers mother followed me and reused to take my advice to rent first, then quickly decided she hated it but couldn't afford to go back. Guilt tripped me and manipulated me into selling my house and moving in to hers to "look after her" (turns out she can manage fine when she has to).
During a row a few years ago she told me it was wrong of me to have moved away and that she "had to" follow me .

Namechange - I feel weak for doing what I did and not just getting on with it. But I hit rock bottom - panic attacks before visits..days afterwards in a daze and shock. Nothing obvious would even happen...but that subliminal control from my mum and her jealousy over my step dad 'liking' me (too much as it turned out )

I hope you find the strength to do what is best for YOU whichever way that is. I sent a letter. I heard nothing from them since but I was convinced they would show up at my door. Instead they were 'broken' apparently and that was how it ended.

There's a chance that yours might even be a teeny tiny bit bonkers-er than mine........

Above post to good

youcan :( that sounds horrific. From what little you've told us I think it can safely be labelled the strong option. ((())) x

You are not alone Namechange - so many of understand the long term effects of a parent that is controlling and overly involved.

You saying you cannot stand your mum touching you...I would feel physical panic when my mum moved in for a hug/ kiss goodbye. You get to the point where you shut down there are so many 'emotions' going round and round in your head.

I often didn't even hear what my mother was lecturing about - the amnesia would set in about what we actually spoke about - but I would feel exhausted afterwards.

Bloody hell, you that's awful. So sorry the rest of your family have sided with her too. .
what is it with some people? What baffles me always is why people are like this to the ones they supposedly love above all others, their own children???

My mum often sits too close on the sofa, right up touching me and I hate it, always have. I get the amnesia about rows, can't remember what she's said straight afterwards.
She hasn't responded at all to the photo message with a pic (a very very cute one) of DCs, so that's another thing that shows she's in a strop.

Ah the strops [winks]

I feel for you all - I really really do

All my friends say 'you only get one mum - you should make it up with her (not knowing the gory details)'.

I get shivers down my spine around mothers day.

Ignore such stroppiness and keep your distance (this distancing certainly works with my narc ILs. Infact I do this for my own sanity because they do not do empathy, a typical narcissistic trait, I certainly do not visit my ILs alone, perish the thought!).

It's very hard to have a simple, uncomplicated good time with a narcissist. Except for odd spells of heady euphoria unrelated to anything you can see, their affective range is mediocre-fake-normal to hell-on-Earth. They will sometimes lie low and be quiet, actually passive and dependent -- this is as good as it gets with narcissists. They are incapable of loving conduct towards anyone or anything, so they do not have the capacity for simple pleasure, beyond the satisfaction of bodily needs. There is only one way to please a narcissist (and it won't please you): that is to indulge their every whim, cater to their tiniest impulses, bend to their views on every little thing.

There's only one way to get decent treatment from narcissists: keep your distance. They can be pretty nice, even charming, flirtatious, and seductive, to strangers, and will flatter you shamelessly if they want something from you. When you attempt to get close to them in a normal way, they feel you are putting emotional pressure on them and they withdraw because you're too demanding. They can be positively fawning and solicitous as long as they're afraid of you, which is not most people's idea of a real fun relationship.

I would suggest you read "Children of the Self Absorbed" written by Nina W Brown as this may also help you.

I got a reply this morning to my text msg so I think cutting the conversation short and not pandering to the guilt tripping worked. You're right Attila distance works.

Distance works very well with my mum too. As long as I can put a lid on the guilt!!

Just getting my head in gear to answer some of these questions.

Something else I noticed earlier which I hadn't noticed before... Whenever I think about ways to manage our relationship, my first response is to think about how it would affect her (she'd be mortified/so upset etc).

I did the checklist on 'will I ever be good enough' today. I ticked so many, there were maybe 2 or 3 which didn't apply. That's when I chose to tell DH properly about what's been happening this week. But I am still in denial on a very deep rooted level that it's anything other than a bit of insecurity on her part.

.

The Plan.

1. There is no longer any need for my mum to be included in my social circle. She is no longer welcome or invited to anything apart from our immediate family gatherings. I've already put my foot down about two instances, I'm quite proud of myself. The only potential problem here is that in-laws are very sociable and already think it's odd that they see my parents as little as they do. Christmas is going to be tricky. But tough. I've told DH he can tell them what he wants, but that I'm no longer inviting my mum into any other area of my life. I really hope he supports me on this if they do push it.

1. We currently have weekly Skype marathons. Sometimes this is OK, the kids entertain them. Sometimes I'm not in the mood and neither are the kids and I resent it but feel guilty if I don't. New rule: I'll only call if I feel like it. And will try really, really, REALLY hard not to feel guilty about it (someone please tell me how to do this....!) I haven't called them this weekend, despite two texts to remind me that they're in. But hey, only two texts. And they weren't too guilt inducing either.

1. I need to manage her visits much more carefully. She has a habit of railroading me into longer or extra visits, blaming the flights, or another appointment she has and can't possibly be in the country and not see me. This is one area where I've given up and basically just agree to a vague period of time, during which she books us in whenever she likes. It's very difficult to turn her down when she just happens to have booked an extra night or two at either end, "because of the flights", because it feels very inhospitable. I think our diaries need to become a lot 'busier' over the coming year... And if necessary I need to tell her outright that it's just not convenient. Because its not.

A question for tho of you whose parents moved to be closer to them... If you could go back to that time, knowing what you know now, do you think there is anything you could have done to stop them following you? X

*those

I should have cut contact before they tried to move closer. Nothing else would have stopped them from following so they could 'own' me.