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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Facing divorce abroad - please help!

35 replies

Gostraighttojail · 05/08/2013 22:23

I am living in Northern Europe. My marriage has broken down and we are separating. I don't speak the language, have no idea of the legal system and I do not want my husband to have 50/50 access to the kids as he is a bully. Furthermore, I don't want to live here anymore as my job prospects are very limited and it is lonely.
Can anyone offer any advice? We jointly own our house, I guess we will sell it. Is there any way I can leave the country with the kids (legally of course)? Please? I don't know where to turn and I know my husband is on the war path and has a very good lawyer. I'm scared.
I'm in Germany.

OP posts:
hmsvictoria · 05/08/2013 22:36

So sorry you're going through this.

I don't know anything about divorce in Germany, but my first thought would be to get yourself some initial legal advice so you fell better informed and so less vulnerable - is there an expat group who could help you? A free legal advice service you could attend with a German speaking friend? Someone who can recommend a family solicitor?

One step at a time.

Original poster
Gostraighttojail · 05/08/2013 22:42

Thanks for the kind words. I have managed to fund a bilingual divorce lawyer online.
The only reason I stayed with him was that I just couldn't face the thought of my kids seeing him on his own 50% of the time. He is so mean and angry Hmm . But, according to google, courts here give joint access so they won't have any choice. I'm so sad for them I feel sick.

OP posts:
newbiefrugalgal · 05/08/2013 22:48

you won't be able to leave Germany without his permission. hague convention ruling!

hmsvictoria · 05/08/2013 22:48

How old are your DC? How do they feel about him?

Original poster
Gostraighttojail · 05/08/2013 22:52

Thanks. You have confirmed exactly what I thought about being stuck here.
Our dcs are tiny: 1 and 4. The 4 year old is aware he is somewhat moody and aggressive; the 1 year old not really.
I don't think I can do this Hmm

OP posts:
hmsvictoria · 05/08/2013 23:14

Yes it's miserable for the expat spouseSad. I presume he isn't a danger to the DC?

MariaLuna · 05/08/2013 23:22

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

This is an organisation that deals with abducted children, obviously not your case but it has lots of info that may help you, also a forum and a list of lawyers.

www.reunite.org/

Original poster
Gostraighttojail · 05/08/2013 23:23

Too right hmsvictoria Hmm I hope you are not talking from experience Hmm

He is not a physical danger to the dcs but he is certainly emotionally abusive. I don't see how I can counteract that if I only see them half the time Hmm

OP posts:
Original poster
Gostraighttojail · 05/08/2013 23:23

Thank you for the link.

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 06/08/2013 00:15

What a horrible situation to be in.

One thing, though - the money for a divorce lawyer should come from family funds (regardless of who is working outside the home to earn that) so if he's getting an expensive lawyer, so should you.

Was it originally in both your plans to move back to the UK at some point?

lemmingcurd · 06/08/2013 07:05

OP sorry to hear about your situation. I have some slightly relevant experience tho not in Germany but another EC country.

First things first: you need to get off the net and organise your real world.

Do you have any support network? Any UK relatives you can contact who could come out to be with you for a few days? Find a real-life local divorce lawyer, they may not even charge for the first appt, mine didn't and really put my mind at rest re 50-50 custody - he said it is v often impossible to put into practice and also can be very unsettling for the children. So go and see a lawyer, really important.

Grockle · 06/08/2013 07:18

Hi go straight. I'm sorry you are going through this. It is awful, I know. My exH left when Ds was 5 months old. I was living 4000 miles away from home, in a new place with a different legal system. I can't advise on the legal stuff other than to see a few lawyers before you pick one. I was also subject to The Hague convention.

Do you have support over there in real life?

Seabright · 06/08/2013 08:15

Maybe try posting in the "living overseas" section. Also, maybe try PM-ing MdmLindor (think I have her name right), she lived in Germany for years and may be able to help.

I think many lawyers in Germany will be able to speak OK English, certainly doctors can, and I think that it's common for professionals to speak pretty good English.

Lastly, maybe the British Embassy or Consulate can recommend a lawyer?

Fiderer · 06/08/2013 10:15

I'm in Germany too and separated. Yes, many professionals do speak English but even as a fairly fluent German speaker I know the language barrier can be another thing which can make you feel overwhelmed and not in control. I agree with lemmingcurd that you need to see a lawyer here. I had a free consultation hour before I was charged for letters etc.

There's a lovely group on the German speaking threads in Living Overseas and please PM me if you'd like to.

DistanceCall · 06/08/2013 10:39

I live in Spain. There was recently a case of a Spanish woman married to an abusive German man, living in Germany, who left Germany with her two children. When she returned to Germany for work reasons she was imprisoned for kidnapping. (She was later released, but the children had to return to Germany).

I really wouldn't recommend getting out of the country with your children without legal authorisation. Which I understand is quite hard to obtain. I'm sorry.

Possibly the best option if for you to learn the language and become more integrated. Again, I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Original poster
Gostraighttojail · 06/08/2013 13:57

Thank you all. I have made an appointment with an English speaking lawyer.

I have resigned myself to being stuck here for the next 17 years Hmm (can't even type that without crying). I do have a job, it's not a great one but at least I have an income. Also, I have a small support network here. I will have to swallow my pride and own up that my life is falling apart I guess.

My husband has this morning said he wants to give our marriage another go. I do not and I can't see what good it will do. However, in this situation I am thinking i might as well just pretend to as the thought of him having the kids alone if we divorce is really freaking me out Hmm

OP posts:
Original poster
Gostraighttojail · 06/08/2013 13:58

And yes, I probably should make an effort to integrate more but I hate it here and most of my friends are foreigners who don't stay long and don't like it much too.

OP posts:
Bonsoir · 06/08/2013 14:03

Is your H German?

Original poster
Gostraighttojail · 06/08/2013 14:05

Yes.

OP posts:
Viking1 · 06/08/2013 14:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bonsoir · 06/08/2013 14:12

How do you get on with your in laws?

Original poster
Gostraighttojail · 06/08/2013 14:32

No, he refuses to leave Germany. Always has done.

I don't think I will be able to live with him any more. He is becoming very very aggressive (verbally). It will affect my mental health.

I am thinking in the short term to live separately bear each other and maybe in the long term to look for a job in another part of Germany which is a long way away from where he is. Thankfully it is a huge country. How does The Hague convention stand with reference to this?

OP posts:
Original poster
Gostraighttojail · 06/08/2013 14:35

Near not bear. Shaking as he has had another massive shouting session at me. Locked in bathroom. Kids with GP.
I get on fine with his mum. But I would never say anything against him to her. Our relationship is superficial I guess. She is good with the kids though and lives fairly near. I have suggested he goes to live with her for a while as she has a big house and the kids know it so it would be less upset for them. But he is not keen. He is not really one to put others' needs first, not even his kids.

OP posts:
Bonsoir · 06/08/2013 14:41

The Hague Convention does not govern the restrictions on what individual jurisdictions put on moving DC within their boundaries away from a parent. You need advice from someone who knows about German divorce law.

Which country did you marry in and where were your DC born?

lemmingcurd · 06/08/2013 14:53

Gostraight you must think what you want toachieve instead of how much you hate it. I was in your position for several years and felt completely trapped despite being main breadwinner. I basically did what Viking1 suggested... I figured that I had two problems 1 being my marriage failing and 2 being trapped as you say for the next 15 years... now amid much wailing and gnashing of teeth on H's part we are back in the UK so if it all goes tits up at least the DCs are where they need to be i.e. with a happy mum. If that's not possible for you then try to become as self sufficient as you can, step by step, you can't go on like this for long as the DCs wikl be affected. If England is where you want to be then work towards that... in the meantime a talk with your H and a trip over the Channel are in order I would suggest
good luck

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