DP touching me intimately whilst he's awake and I'm asleep- not sure how I feel about it

[afterahurricanecomesarainbow]

Have NCed. This is something that's started in the last couple of weeks, DP and I have been together 3 years but separated for a couple of months recently- unrelated to this. He is doing it consciously. He has stopped on the occasions I've asked him to but there have been times I've been half asleep and not really with it. I'm conscious we both want to make this work this time and I don't want to create a huge fuss over nothing if I'm just being very uptight. Not sure if I'm being funny about this or not.

No, hotcrosspun, that absolutely was not me. But I can see it would help your troll spin on me

Badtouch If you husband stops when you say no then what is your point??

The OP has said No and he has carried on doing what he likes with her body. That is the issue.

Ive never reported anyone Ripping. I don't mind strangers calling me names. Although arsehat is a new one.

Dh might wake me like this, and if I said no, he'd stop. He WOULD probably try again at another date as quite often "no" can mean "not this time". If I really didn't want what he was doing, I'd approach him out of the bedroom, away from any sexual situations and say "Listen, the other day when you did xxx, I really hate that please can you not do it again?" he'd be horrified he'd done something I didn't like and not do it again. IMO it's about how you say things and when. Can you approach him like that? Then if he does it again you can quite reasonably have a bit of a go?

And ignore goodtouch, let him at you? FGS are you meant to just lie back and think of England??

GoodTouch if your H surprised you with something you didn't like, anal for example, is that still fine?

Are you sure that you've said 'I do not like being touched when I'm asleep or sleepy, do not do it again'?
Or did you say 'no' in a way that could mean 'I don't fancy it right now'?

Within marriage I don't believe the same rules about needing explicit permission before you do anything at all apply, I think that within marriage it is reasonable for there be 'norms' and 'assumptions' based on past behaviour. But if one partner makes it clear that they do not like a behaviour and don't want it ever (rather than don't want it right at that moment) then that MUST be instantly and always respected.

If you have made it clear, or once you have made it clear then I would not give him another chance.

Goodtouch that's where the suggestion that she talks to him and makes it very clear that she doesn't like it at all comes from. But any decent guy if on the first occasion of trying something new gets shot down should discuss it before repeating a surprise. Or even better just ask first (maybe halfway through a bottle of wine have a chat about fantasies and see what the response is).

And Goodtouch, surprise sex is great if that's something you've negotiated previously. If MY DH decided to have "surprise sex" with me, I'd not be too happy unless we'd said that was fine. DH loves being woken with a BJ and I'm happy to oblige. I wouldn't really like being suddenly entered (esp as dry would hurt!) and yes I'd call that rape.

being woken this way is pretty standard within plenty of marriages.

For me, touching an unconscious person sexually is a high risk behaviour. Doesn't matter who they are. Because you do NOT have their consent.

For me, being woken up by a finger in the cunt is no fun. It feels like a violation. And I really, truly believe that a lot of women who put up with this shit from their partners know this but are too scared to rock the boat.

You need to say "I don't like being woken up like that and I don't want you ever to do it again." Then, if he continues, you know and he knows, that it is without consent.

GoodTouch, calling posters who won't defend the partner's behaviour is not on. No consent = abuse. End of. If OP has told her DP she doesn't like it then she is not consenting.

I'm really sensitive about this because one of my earliest sexual experiences was falling asleep in bed with a boy, we'd been messing around a bit, I woke up and he was having full on sex with me. I was terrified and ashamed. If DH is touching me and I'm even half asleep because I am not in control of the situation. I don't give a fuck if someone feels 'rejected' because the person they want to have sex with is sleeping. People like that have problems which they need to deal with. They need to grow the fuck up.

And badguider, in a criminal court, the same rules about consent would apply. Marital rape exists. Rape is rape.

Agreed Mrs Hoarder and Stropzilla. I think some of the views expressed here have been really extreme, for example, that her husband has abused her. I assumed that was not the case.

Re. anal - hell no, but he wouldn't do that as its a no-go area in our marriage.

Yabyum - for you its a high risk behaviour, but in a loving marriage, like mine, I have no need to worry that my husband is a rapist. What an awful thing to assume of someone

I don't disagree estelle about marital rape - but in this instance we're talking about some touching which stops when she says stop.. he just tries it again on a different occassion... bad behaviour, yes. but rape, no.

I think the difficulty here is we don't know that previously OP hasn't really enjoyed this, and encouraged it. For all we know, her OH could be assuming no means no at the moment. I still say she needs to approach him separately to the bedroom and specifying. It's really not rape although continuing after telling him no ever again would definitely be abuse.

"He's stopped on the occasions I've asked him to" leads me to believe there were occasions where she enjoyed it? I'm sorry if I've made a very wrong assumption.

GoodTouch thanks for the reply, but can you not see that for the OP
this behaviour of her husband's is "a no-go area" in her marriage.

Er, Stropzilla, the other half of that sentence was "but there have been times I've been half asleep and not really with it". Doesn't that imply being too groggy to make a convincing refusal, rather than enjoyment?

Twinkle - not from the OP, no. As Stropzilla points out, it's ambiguous. Sometimes in the past he may have started and she either enjoyed or went along with it. If she's asked him to never do it again and he does, that is, of course, completely wrong. But if she's just said 'not this morning' and he does it the next morning I don't see how that is wrong if she's enjoyed it before

it's like the poster on here who says she wakes her DH up with a BJ in the morning. By definition she can't ask his consent as he's asleep, so is that sexual assault? Asking if he wants one the night before takes the spontaneity out of it.

I think all this talk of sexual assault is a bit over the top as the OP doesn't say whether it's been okay in the past, the DP may think it's fine, and he stops when she says stop. He may be correctly assuming that sometimes she'll like it and wants to wake her up nicely. I've done it in the past and sometimes my DP wasn't in the mood so I stopped. Sometimes she was and we both enjoyed it. There was no talk of assault, just an advance turned down, no harm, no foul, no call for the inquisition.

If that's the case Twinkle, then of course, but OP hasn't said that it is a no go area. When I wrote my first reply, I thought they had done it in the past.

I take your point though, I was advising someone to "just do it for him" when there is no way Id consider anal for my husband.

Still, all the rape-accusers are fucking nuts if you ask me. I cant understand why some people automatically assumed that he mustve understood and disregarded her feelings.

My immediate thought was that he was trying to, I dunno, create some closeness by being spontaneous in the name of saving their marriage. I feel completely out of synch with every other woman in the world right now.

Its all too easy to sit behind a screen telling someone that their husband is a disgusting sex pest with no respect for them. But this is someones LIFE!

My suggestion that she consider letting him carry on is considerably less risky than the suggestions she LTB etc.

Annie yes you're right, it does say that, however it doesn't say if it's been ok previously and that makes a difference IMO.

You told him no at the time, then he tried again a couple of days later. Lets hope that he thought your no meant 'not now'. Rather than 'not ever', it's a concern that he did not check this out himself. Clear ambiguity by calmly telling him that it's not your thing and you never want to be woken up like that. Then if it continues, there is a far bigger issue regarding his respecting others boundaries.

ANYWAY it's all irrelevant now. She doesn't like it and regardless of if it's been a part of their sex life before, she's allowed to change her mind. If she has, she needs to be explicit. If she has been, and told him no more ever as I hate it then yes, abuse.

Sorry that was in reference to my last post, I meant if she's previously agreed, she's now withdrawing that consent and needs to communicate that properly. IF she's previously agreed.

Bant - that was by way of an analogy to explain a principle to Goodtouch, which is now sorted.

I agree the r/l situation is ambiguous insofar as we don't know if when the OP told him to stop, that he knew she meant stop for good.

However, the OP states that this behaviour has only started in the past couple of weeks, & that she's never done it to him, implying that this is not something that she okayed in the past.

If touching when asleep is 'a nogo' for the OP, then her P has to respect that.