not sure whether it's him or me

[2468BONJOVI]

I feel like he is always critical of me. I try only to ask for things I think are utterly reasonable because he always resists whatever I say and knows better. But then I am told I am not being nice. I don't have to shout or swear to not be nice, just say at the wrong time.
Recent horrible shouting matches were when:

I asked him not to leave the big upstairs window open when I was afraid the small dc would fall out
I asked for the phone charger he had moved which was the only one that works on my work phone (which I asked for straight away as there was no charge since it has been missing since yesterday and I had left work early for a dr. appointment and was paranoid about it)

both things turned into a row because he was annoyed with me for asking, or "asking in the wrong way" (ie now) and I got really fucking furious that I have to negotiate on things I think are basic and important

I cooked dinner for 9 people last weekend and we had half a bowl of new potatoes left over. he said in a smirky way "you always overcompensate on the carbs" (I try to low-carb). I got really upset because it was a really small mistake and I think there was no need to mention it. I think I may have been overreacting because I could have easily laughed off such a small comment. but I feel so picked at all the time,

when we argue he orders me about, pushes me around, tells me what to do - go away, go upstairs, go out, go back to work - and drags the children into it, today he told them I am a "bad woman".

Here is what I mean by "is it me". I have

depressive tendencies
seriously introvert tendencies
get angry
get very tired and overwrought
drink too much
am out early and back late for work
can't sleep with him because he snores
get really upset by small pieces of criticism whcih I think he could just keep to himself

here is what makes me think it is him

I mistrust the "just ask me nicely" thing he says because it seems like it is NEVER nice enough ie I am not allowed to express any needs or requests or suggestions that he is not always right at all

It seems as if (this is an exaggeration but this is how I feel right now) every time I express a need he takes it as a criticism and responds to it by attacking me and telling me I am shit ALL OVER AGAIN (eg "can I have my phone charger now please" -> he hears "you are wrong to take my charger and this is an attack on you" -> he retaliates by sulking and then saying "that wasn't a very nice thing to say when I had just come back from the shop" -> huge fight while he tells me I am treating him like shit and I tell him no I am just asking for my stuff back that I need and he is treating me like shit for thing to enforce an ethos where he can take my stuff and I am not allowed to mention it)

he can be very quiet and cold, often doesn't meet my eye when I come in, doesn't seem to like me much or be pleased to see me

I feel as if he doesn't respect me or what I do but I can't put my finger on why all the time and I think he would say I am mental and imagining things. Everything seems to turn into a big screed about how much he does as if by me saying anything at all he has to go on about how he does x, y, z, and the implication is I do nothing

I think we have a dysfunctional relationship because we are both fucked up but I don't know what to do about now we have children. I always go out with the sons of alcoholics. I am maybe an abusive person that children of dysfunctional families go for. I wish I had taken my wellbeing seriously when I was younger and done some work on myself instead of going from man to man and lurching from semi-suicidal to suicidal to drunk to back again. I am not sure what is wrong with me but something is. Now we have children, what do I do?

I think we both have a drink problem but his is manifested in steady daily soaking and mine is manifested in lurching on and off the bottle. I never try to make him not drink when I am not drinking, nor does he try to make me drink or not drink, but we never talk about the insane amount of booze that disappears in this house at times.

Our children are beautiful and deserve better than this but I don't know what to do about it.

It has very rarely occurred to me to attempt to be happy, only to survive has been the height of my ambitions but now I have children that doesn't seem a very good example

Sorry this is so long

I wonder if I need AA or a support group or something

sorry this is so long but is anyone there?

Well... you're not perfect, of course. Human beings aren't. And it never hurts to do some work on yourself. But frankly, it rather sounds as though it is him. I do kind of wonder whether you might be less angry, tired and overwrought if you weren't being picked on all the time.

Not to leave the big upstairs window open so the DC don't fall out sounds like a pretty reasonable request to me!

Oh, and you had half a bowl of potatoes left over? Shame on you for not being clairvoyant, you're supposed to know exactly how much each guest is going to want to eat, didn't you know? Oh wait...

Run. Run for the hills.

Sorry I can't make any sense tonight, but seriously. Run.

I'm here. I'm not an expert in difficult relationships as some ladies are here, and they will come & give you support.

But, this is emotional abuse. He is bullying you, slowly shredding your self esteem.

The first thing is that you need to get away from him, because you cannot possibly have normal self esteem around someone who treats you like this.

AA is a great place & it's helped a lot of people, you can definitely get help with your drinking from them. But it would be a lot easier to tackle your drinking if you weren't with someone constantly making you feel like shit.

Have you got family who can help you?

no I don't have family to help. When I was a child I was messed up and they ignored it. Now I am an adult I have to look after myself.
I think I missed out something important I should have learnt when I was growing up. I am not a very nice person, I didn't actually have any friends at all for a few years, sometimes I think I just didn't learn how to stand my ground nicely, how to be in relationships - I manage conflict very badly at work, outside work I tend to roll over repeatedly and then get frustrated and blow my top

my parents started squabbling after years of my mum being a door mat, that is, when I was a child she was always angry with my dad and LYFE and after we left home she started pushing back and said she didn't need to set a good example any more, now I think our relationship has maybe changed in a similar way over a much shorter time, I started off all, oh, whatever you want, and now I am just being a bitch

I have been wondering a lot what went wrong with me. I once saw a therapist who hinted I had been sexually abused because of my symptoms, I haven't.

I wonder whether it was being brought up RC and taking it too seriously and feeling guilty all the time; having no friends (but what made me have no friends? why wasn't I likeable anyway?) worrying all the time about my gay brother that we weren't allowed to talk about; my sister pushing me around so much; maybe some just basic brain depressive thing just organic, innate; maybe drinking too young; maybe other drugs later, but it went wrong a long time before the booze or the drugs; none of this is very bad. Lots of people have all this and they are fine

Thanks for listening I am going to go to bed now but if anyone can talk tomorrow I would be so grateful, thank you all for your comments x

He's kind, often. I think I get too wound up by the comments. It bugs me though that I can't just ask him to stop. I would only do so when on the edge and not strong so his resistance then becomes a huge angry fight because I can't take it and it escalates. Maybe it is to do with having small children to whom you long to say WILL YOU JUST DO THE GODDAMN THING THST I ASK. But you can't, and I try to say it to home, AMD that doesn't go well

Some families are part of the problem...

I don't believe that you're 'not nice very nice person', it sounds more like you've been damaged by difficult life circumstances and are self critical.

Your list of faults are really not faults.

'Blowing your top' as you call it, can be a traumatic/stress reaction.

It sounds like you need someone to talk to.

You can call Women's Aid on 0808 2000 247. It's a free 24 hour service.

Or contact your GP to ask to be referred to counselling. Sleep well.

This is really not you in any way. He pushes you about and orders you to do things??? Thats unacceptable. "just ask nicely" You are and adult not a toddler being taught manners for the 1st time.
Get out, phone womans aid/ refuge.
You say that you think you missed something as a child, this may very well be the case and you could see your gp about getting support through that or mybe by joining social things and making some more friends who could help you with those social skills. But your 'd'p is not the one to 'teach you' by behaving the way you describe.

It's him. He sounds horrible and emotionally abusive.
You need to read all the threads in Relationships on emotional abuse. You will find him on them.

Actually, you just need to read the current Emotional Abuse thread... A past version helped me realise what was going on in my marriage, and go through divorce and settlement to freedom.

My default state was depression, for decades (twas a long marriage). I was under mh services. When I filed for divorce, my depression lifted, though life was stressful till all was done and dusted.

Now I am fully myself again. And so can you be too. Take your time, it's like waking up...

He's a shit. He hates women. He sought you out because you have had some previous bad experiences which messed with your self-esteem - abusive men have a kind of radar for vulnerable women.

Men like him do not consider women to be human. He thinks of you as a pet that needs to be trained and controlled. He might well 'love' you in the way that people love their dogs: you get fed, you get exercised, you get medical treatment if you need it, but you're not consulted about much and you need to know your place and respect your owner.

You sound a lot like me a few years ago. Please try AA. You may find there are people there who you identify with and who can help and support you.

Why do you need to ask permission to use your own phone charger?

Because he moved it and I couldn't find it. Actually it was not mine. I thought it was but when he eventually found it for me it was his. Then he found mine for me later. My phone is temperamental and won't work with all chargers. My mistake was using the word "now" when I asked for it, the second time, being paranoid about work, having left early.

This is one of the fundamental points of tension. I think there are things that belong to me as an individual (my work phone charger, my swiss army knife I was given on my 21st birthday) and I should have access to them when I want and they should stay where I left them or put back after borrowing. He thinks because he does somsuch in the house I am petty, everything is common, I should not mind about having to hunt for mystuff. Sometimes I see his point, other times it feels less like a philosophical difference and more like he will resist every bloody thing I ask for on principle no matter how hard I try to cut down the list.

My instinct is I need to do something about myself before trying to do anything with us or making big decisions, which I am too tired to do anyway, but don't want to go to gp and get pressured onto A.D.s and feel Imay need something more talky which is why a.a. As booze is part of this

I cried since I got up this morning because I have been trying to work out a way in my head to say that I think he is giving ice cream to the kids too often and am so tired at everything I say being the trigger for huge resistance that I thought "fuck it does it matter" and had to remind myself "YES it is my KIDS it MATTERS" and have been crying ever since at how feeble I have become

We moved house. dp took a day off work to unpack and started putting things away in the kitchen. I disagreed with some of them and moved them about a bit (explaining why). He put them back to how he wanted them (he didn't really have a reason). I didn't care except for the kids' melamine, which I explained, I wanted in a low cupboard so they can get it and put it on the table themselves. I moved that back. It all moved AGAIN. then I temporarily gave up, then when we were having a huge row in the aftermath of WINDOWGATE I got really upset that I can't do things that matter to the children (it is important to me that they feel that they have ownership of age-appropriate practical things. I went to college with people who couldn't do laundry or cook pasta and I felt sorry for them. They are only 2 and 4 but they love to feel independent and helpful and they like to help to lay the table and it matters to me that we lay things out so they can do this and not be excluded from household activity. Why am I justifying myself on here?) and so I moved all the melamine back to a low cupboad and explained, crying, for the second or third time, why I want it there. It has stayed there. It was a huge bloody effort but I got there.
Now I have to start a similar process about being thoughtful about ice cream. The childminder gives them ice cream, he gives them ice cream, two a day is too much, he had a convention that they only had ice cream on fridays, it has somehow gone away, there is a lovely ripe melon he could cut up if he could be arsed, I need to say this because it MATTERS but it is going to be a FIGHT like the open window and the cupboards

If I just agree with myself that I only need to do it when it is about the children I can get on with it and see the point. But the thing is I think he should see that I have just written off a whole list of crap I would like to have more control over for me, he should just see that I am only doing the important things now and he should just accept some things straight off

He should see but he won't - according to him he is Right. Sadly the odds that he will change are very low.

You are justifying yourself on here because you need validation. And your viewpoint is valid, despite his efforts to make yourself doubt yourself.

venting at length on MN is a good start. Sending strength. Stay safe.

I am going to say something a bit different to the 'leave the bastard' stuff.

I have similar issues with my DH over the way I ask for things, I don't want my DS to be given monster munch all the time and specially not late at night, I don't want him to be watching my DH play video games too close to bed time (They aren't violent ones) and i don't think my DH should be giving him sweets. Yet when I raise these issues I always 'say it wrong' so I can totally sympathise with you. I even started saying stuff like 'I know you are going to think that I am just having a go at you and this is really just a health issue rather than me being narky ....but I don't think we should be...' Sometimes it works.

I also told my husband that I am never going to stop asking him if he has remembered to shut the stairgate because I think it's too important and sometimes we do forget to shut it.

On the other hand - I know that when we had our DS I was very controlling about the way things should be done, particularly RE safety, and maybe I did go on and on about certain things so I can sympathise with partners who feel like they are being got at a lot.

Can you sit down with your DH/DP and say 'look, we need to talk without raised voices about the way we are bringing the children up and we need to talk about being healthier so that we are there for our children in the future'?

the dynamic between you sounds very strained. a couple of thoughts:

it sounds like you could do with being taught some strategies to ask for what you need/would like without it reaching a point for you mentally where you are at your limit. perhaps your emotional needs where not fully met as a child, and you never learned how to ask for things without feeling like you were asking for too much? (does that make sense)

he sounds like he is responding from a defensive place and feels criticised/not valued and is using passive aggressive tendancies to get a response from you rather than communciating clearly. which then may feed into the mounting pressure you feel.. and so on and so on..

would it be possible to try couples counselling to see if you can learn to both communicate more effectively?

Thank you for all the replies.
I do not think it is a clearcut case of ltb either.
artychick, it is true that a lot of this comes from childhood and being treated as not important. My older sister (we shared a room) is very controlling and my parents didn't care. they worked very hard and I was quite emotionally unwell at times with no one to talk to.
when I had spd and got very stressed about not being able to do things like housework etc dp said "just ask me, stop worrying about it, stop trying to do things, just ask me". and he has said that at other times when I don't have spd. but whenever I do ask, whatever I say, however I say it, it is always wrong. He teases me for being lady muck. Or sulks a bit, says nothing is wrong for ages, and then finally says it is because he didn't like that I asked him for x just after he had done y (there is always something like the y clause, there is always some reason why normally it would be fine but not now or in this way which basically amounts to IT IS ALWAYS WRONG)
I know it is likely that I honestly do ask wrongly. but I don't know how to ask for things and I am not getting any practice as I am trying to ask as little as possible as it always goes wrong!

Very stressed at work at the moment. we have new senior management no one knows what is happening. people are asking me how the workload is going to be managed and I don't know. I have asked people for things for clients they are not giving me and they are getting a bit arsey. or I am imagining they are arsey because that is the dynamic at home? or the other way around? I am last in the queue of things my new boss wants to think about. and letting people down because of it. I have 2 weeks booked off which I really really want to take without working but there is no one else to do my job. Last year I didn't take more than 4 or 5 days in a row because of this and had a bit of a breakdown. I thought having a boss in the same country would mean someone to talk to about how I can manage to take holiday but it seems not.

someone I really like at work is having drinks and I am going to not go because I don't want to drink and I am afraid of being too honest about things... or about even crying if people are nice to me. I feel sad and isolated like a few drinks with fun people is a stupid thing to miss out on but if I try to be like other people it will all go wrong.

maybe we should have counselling but we don't have a babysitter. we need to get a babysitter and get counselling. but I don't want to go and sit in a room and hear him telling someone it is always ally my fault because then I clam up and can't talk

also we have only just moved and the neighbours already know we fight and this is making me really sad

OP part of your post could be me. Reasonable requests equal I treat him like shit and I treat him like an employee.

I try and keep the peace so sometimes just agree to things that I don't want to do. eg. We are on holiday and he insists driving me to a certain place despite the fact that I wanted to go by bus. We don't know area and I knew the bus went down the specific road I wanted to go down. He cannot find it by car which is no surprise and in the end I just get out at a random place. Walk 1 hour back to the villa and then get the bus like I wanted to do. I have a massively repsonsible job in terms of money I manage multi million pound deals and instruct several solicitors at a time, so why can't I say no to him.

We are both classic alpha type personalities but I agree to try and stop a sulk or a mood. He is brilliant dad though.

you sound so sad :( do you have anyone you can talk to, who you would feel comfortable to turn to for a bit of support? it does sound like you could do with some RL support.

you sound completely overloaded at the moment. you have a lot going on: job stress, moving house, kids, relationship. don't underestimate the pressure these things exert. no one copes all the time, everyone has a limit, something has to give. when we are overloaded it makes it harder to communicate effectively, so bear that in mind before you start to blame yourself for everything. cut yourself some slack.

not having emotional needs met as a child can make it harder to understand even what our needs are as an adult. we need our parents to meet them for us when we are little so we can learn to manage them gradually. if this gets overlooked then the child can grow up feeling like their feelings are unacceptable, and that they shouldnt have them. and that they arent loveable unless they 'get it right' or 'ask in the right way'. this isnt correct for a child and it isnt correct for you.

you arent doing anything wrong, you are trying your best to work this out.

I don't think joint counselling will work for you two. I think counselling just for you is what is needed. That's not to say the issues are all yours. But yes, he does have issues but if you are stronger you will deal with his issues in a more rational way.

This may well result in you deciding to call it a day, but in a rational and clear minded way. Now if he went for some counselling then that would be icing on the cake probably.

But reading your level of anger, his passive aggressive behaviour is only to be expected - but still not acceptable. He is an adult too. He should be able to articulate what is bothering him and he shouldn't feel the need to put you down.

If he feels the need to belittle you it says as much about him as much as you. If one chooses a partner that you can only see fault in then that person must have very low self esteem and believe they only deserve a partner that is not good enough and then anger at the disappointment. Its a vicious circle.

If you can address the drinking aspect of it too that would be good. If only for your kids. I personally don't drink at all and neither does my x. I know how much difference that makes to the children. I have some lovely friends that crack open a bottle of wine every night and often finish a second. I personally think that's too much and too often.

Please go and seek some help with a good therapist. It need only cost as much as a bottle of wine a night for a week.

Lasvegas, that is so funny, but not funny. I can imagine exactly how that happened. dp has a habit of telling me to do things in a certain way "because it will be easier" but I don't find the same things easy as him. Or actually have more experience of what is easier. When dd1 was tiny and I was on maternity leave I used to take a bus into town and pootle around buying clothes etc for her. It was easy to take the pram on the bus, it was easy to manage her while she was getting a constant change of scene, it was nice to sit and have a coffee if she fell asleep, etc. He was always telling me the train was easier (no, there are steps) it was easier to buy online (no because sitting staring at a screen is one thing an awake baby won't let me do) and what would I do with the baby all day and why make things harder when I know she likes pootling around town? I got exhausted trying to explain all this, he was trying to help because he thought I was overtired but I was overtired because she was bfing all night, not from strolling about with a pram in the day.

It is hard for me to tell if he really does not listen or if I am particularly terrible at explaining things. I think I do actually find it particularly tiring so I probably am particularly terrible at it.

arty, I don't really have anyone to talk to irl. I don't seem to have that sort of friend any more. I see more of work people than anyone else, they are nice but this is not appropriate for work people. I am not used to sharing things with my family.

I think we can and should sort it out, I don't think it is ltb but I feel like it sometimes, we don't have much of a relationship at the moment because we have no communication, no honesty, I don't think I can say what I feel and I don't talk about work because he finds it boring