LTB...LTB...what if they wont leave???

[fromparistoberlin]

not even name changed, unwise??

DP is i think EA, at easter on holiday we had a straw and camel back scenario when he lost his temper to such an extent that I went to church in tears. we have 2 young DS. a holiday that cost me £1000s was ruined.

the scenario we have is he is a SAHD and I work FT.

for a long time now we have a scenrio where EVERY weekend as follows:

row saturday morning
weekend ruined

he says I dont listen, that I disregard him. That might be true

but the fact is through his shouting and temper, a steel wall has closed down

this sat we had spat as due to confusing instructions I could not get the size jeans he wanted for his friend, cue

massive row saturday, in front of kids. screaming
mood all day (I told him he had a choice)
another HUGE screaming row in car sunday, he wont listen just SHOUT and SHOUTS

I am having counselling, and yes he has self esteem issues I know that. and maybe I (with my fancy schamcy career) make him feel shit

But its no excuse to SHOUT and call me names is it? "little fucking piece of shit" is one example

I want to record him when he shouts, as no human being can reasonably cope with it

he holds ME responsible for his misery, its all ME. he has never fucking apologised, ever

But he wont work, refuses to consider an amicable 50:50 split, says horrible things like he will go away, leave kids, even threatened suicide once. he says if we split he will fuck my life up.

I think I need a lawyer, and I think I need help from an outside agency. I think I need to find a room to rent in the week so we can both sleep there and not be around each other. I think he needs to see a counsellor (he says its all my fault)

He also says if he splits its all my fault for fucking his life up, and he will tell boys when they are older

when he shouts he wont listen, my stomach twists. I HATE IT

I cant sleep now, and have to go to work and be a career bitch

I am so scared that maybe its my fault for not loving him enough, and there is a % of me scared that he will do something silly as he sems to have lost all his confidence and had no hope around building himself a new life

IM SCARED and I dont know what to do

and I have to go to work soon, and be tough and strong

Hugs.

Take care when leaving.
Has he made any threats towards you or himself?

This man is not going to kill himself

Those people that shout about it are the ones who are trying to manipulate people, not the ones who actually do it!

He doesn't care, or feel responsible for your welfare so please don't feel responsible for him

Children see through people like this eventually, he will not be able to turn them against you when they are older. However if you don't resolve this then they might blame you for not protecting them so you need to sort this

You have a 'fancy smansy' career his term I take it which shows that you are a capable woman, childcare can be sorted -I never believed that, my ex SAHD 'enabled' me to have the career he was so jealous of and he never let me forget it
Well 3 years down the line I've still got the career without his help so that put 2 fingers up to him didn't it!

Please go and get some proper legal advice -emotional abuse is taken seriously by the courts, I presume your counsellor knows what is going on and anything you can personally document will help, if all it does is allows you to see the wood from the trees as otherwise small incidents get swept aside, written down all together, it can be frightening

Men who threaten to kill themselves to manipulate are the lowest of the low ime. He won't and if he does, that is not your responsibility. Your marriage sound awful, you can't continue living with someone who screams and shouts, that is abusive and child-like behaviour. If a colleague did that, what would you do, report them and they would probably get sacked. Right? Now I can't quite get over that he screamed at you for not buying his friend jeans. What is he, 8? You sound clued up, career driven, sensible. Talk to a good solicitor and get good advice and keep seeing your therapist. I hope you work it out and remember it is not your fault and you don't need to be 'strong' you need to start doing things for you. (This is a horrible way for your DC to live too, listening to dad lose it and treat mum this badly.) To be honest, next time he loses it I would almost be tempted to call the police and report his behaviour, it sounds that bad.

Echo all above, plus, why should you bloody name-change? Why hide? You have every right to a decent life and a decent relationship. You should not feel that you need to disguise yourself to get some advice and support from a load of strangers on t'internet. [hug]

I think you should call Womens Aid. Domestic abuse takes many forms and, if you need to get away whilst you sort out legal/financial/accommodation matters, they can possibly point you towards refuges or at least give you some relevant advice. He doesn't have a leg to stand on.

BTW Earning a living doesn't make you a 'career bitch'... it makes you the same as millions of other responsible adults that want the best for their family.

Echoing the above. You could never make this man happy because it suits him to have you think that his horrible personality is somehow your fault. (It isn't) Threatening suicide or whatever is a pretty standard tactic of extreme bullies who know they've lost the fight. A last ditch attempt to keep you under control. Please be very aware, that this is also the stage when they are most dangerous. So please make your personal safety and that of your children top, top priority.

Thanks, at work and reading this has made me cry so will have a look later

I sometimes read about these men that kill themselves and their kids and it scares me. I dont think he would, but.......

I am going to get legal advice. we have a 3 week break coming up (thanks fuck) and this will enable him to see how we cope apart, and how much the kids will miss me too.

back later x

He's responsible for his own misery, and I echo what everyone else has said. Was it a conscious decision for him to be a SAHD while you worked? He has no right to bad mouth your career, which pays for everything, including him and your children.

He is indeed EA, and his low self-esteem is no excuse. You can work on his self-esteem as much as you like, trying to make him feel wonderful, but you'll still be treated like shit, and even when you bend over backwards it will never be enough.

You could indeed record him, but why? If you play it back to him he will not hear the things you hear, he will throw whatever you said back in your face instead.

Please don't leave your kids with this violent man. If you do that then he has a good argument that you are not the main carer. Take your kids with you...

OP this is going to ruffle a few feathers... but here we go:

This is pure role reversal? the dis-functional unequal home where one partner holds the whip hand and the other does the screaming.

How many SAHM recognise this scene from the other side. Was it EA when she would scream every weekend when hubby came home, and eventually had enough and opted to spend time at the pub. its 'Ashes to Ashes'.

Maybe it's just a person going through depression. Nothing more complex.

You dont't have to live with it, any more than the men in the past had to. sadly back then, most opted to have mistresses.

Leave by all means but if you have any love or respect for him see it for what it is. someone struggling to come to terms with a lose of a career, feeling like they are not being heard or respected and thus shouting more to be heard and to feel like their opinion matter.

No how many women recognise that from their own lives. Remember how your partners never see that being a SAHParent, is so tough, never feeling like you have a break, the is no lunch break, no gossip at the water cooler, no leaving the office and work behind, no grown up interaction.

(flaming commence)

LTB. just respect his role as much as men should respect the SAHM role.

"(flaming commence)"

There is no excuse, past or present, male or female, SAH or WOH, depressed or not, that justifies one party calling another party 'a fucking little piece of shit' and haranguing them with other verbal abuse. There is no obligation on anyone to stick around taking that kind of punishment - especially where there are children caught in the fall-out. Violence is violence.

So that's a complete non-argument.

Next

Cog I agreed, there is no excuse, she shouldn't take it regardless, but to brush it all into the "he is a violent abuser" pan, without looking at the whole would be uneven handed.

How many SAHM MNetters have raised their voices at their career minded DP's. I would hazard a guess- 100%.
It's wrong but it's a human response.

I would honestly advice leaving him, firstly so that he realises how he's actions actually impact on you, secondly so that you both can have fulfilling lives.
Tell him to 'get on his bike' and get a job!

You're not being even handed you're being an apologist. 'Raising their voices' is in no way the same as what sounds like a sustained and vicious campaign of verbal abuse.

When I was a SAHM I never shouted abuse at my husband, because I'm not an abuser. This man's behaviour is abuse, and depression or low self esteem are no excuse for domestic abuse.

I saw the relationship as broken beyond when you described the holiday as something that "had cost me £1000s" There is no sense of a couple, of sharing, of jointness in even basic things like family income.

And then there's his behaviour on top of this. Whether it comes from utter disempowerment, or because his character is flawed, doesn't actually matter. Between the two of you, the only residual relationship is essentially adversarial and there is no sense of togetherness.

Time to draw a line and divorce? You both need proper legal advice. You will need to grit your teeth and recognise that however unsatisfactory the relationship between the adults may be, that won't have much impact on how relationship with the DC is assessed. If he is the SAHP then it may well be in their interests for him to continue to be so, certainly in the short term. Depending on how long he has been a SAHP, you should also expect to at him maintenance, probably for some years.

That sounds a horrific environment for you and the DC to be living in.
He has no excuse for the screaming of abuse.
For me, LTB became a lot easier when I considered the fact that my 2 DC would be looking at my own marriage as a template for their future relationships.
The idea that my dd might end up in a similar situation to me made me suddenly strong enough to get the hell out.
Would that type of thought help you too? Imagine your sons in your position (or his) I'd that what you'd want them to think of as a normal relationship?
His kicking off over you not buying his friend's jeans says everything you need to know. It's not about what you do, he will just always find a reason to verbally abuse you. So you might as well do what suits you as you cannot win with him.
Keep strong and believe you can have a better, happier life. And so can your DC

So must we hence forth put out partners into a dark naughty corner and never ask "what is really gong on"?
OP's own words " he says I dont listen, that I disregard him. That might be true"

How often have we read those words from a dejected poster here. "he doesn't listen, he disregards me".

OP your DP is abusive. period! leave him . period!
respect what he is going through period! do not accept it. period!

however to never have this become a cycle that moves on to the next relationship (as many men do) understand the whole. Choose a partner that can either accept it SAHParenting, or who has a career and wants a 50/50 proper relationship. or as some have chosen give more to your future relationship and children and sacrifice the trajectory in your career.

Good luck.

meditrina

you are right, and as I typed that I though that. my counsellor says we have an employee/employer vibe. I really pushed for that holiday, even though we could not afford it. and it was fucking shit.

I 1000% respect what he does with the kids, and I am very happy for them to be with him.

I do resent that fact that come weekends I have to cook, and do housework. I do resent the fact that he "rests" and I pick up childcare on a weekend alot of the time.

he thinks I resent giving him $$$, I dont! I resent being shouted at for fuck all, I resent having spat over something minor and he sulks and ignores me for a week, I resent reading on eggshells in case I set him off.

I get that its hard being a SAHP and its lonely. and I get he is scared and he has lost his confidence. I get that I have water cooler laughs, and he does not.

But how can I help him when he fucking screams at me???? when he wont listen????

I also agree with what you say about childcare, I am starting to accept that I might only see my kids 50% of the time , and as much as it breaks my heart I cant go on like this anymore. Its breaking me down.

Thanks everyone, I am reading everything and I appreciate it.

PS - for me anyway MN is not purely about the now. it is about how we move forward and accept who we are and become one with our selves, our expectations and our needs.

We want answers for today, but we want to leave knowing we have the tools for the future.
So my comment is as much about now- LTB, but also the future - how do we prevent this from happening again.

LTB but then what happens in the future. I dare say as separated people if you can talk and say "hey I realised it was hard for you, we weren't compatible or at the same place, and he can say I was EA - now lets look after the children as separate individuals/lives"
That would avoid so much angst that mares and blights so many children of separated or divorced couples.

"But how can I help him when he fucking screams at me???? when he wont listen????"

Like many other women you're in danger of regarding this man as someone who is 'damaged' and can be fixed. If only he listened or understood better. If only I was a better partner. If only I could make him happy. If only... if only....

He's not damaged (or depressed or emasculated or any other excuse), he's a nasty piece of work and he uses verbal abuse as a way to dominate you and keep you under control. The only fix for this is distance.

ofmice

you are right. he is a human being and he is not 10000% evil, he has many qualities

unfortunately the steel gate has come down, so I dont listen. I have been discussing it woth my counsellor and I was trying to focus on this very issue, then it all fucking kicked off again this weekend.

Its hard to listen when someone scares you and makes your stomach twist IYSWIM

if I get out of this, I am going to be celibate till I die as I dont think I do relationships very well

If the genders were reversed in this scenario, I would tell the career-minded man to leave as well. This isn't a SAHP feeling undervalued and at the end of his tether. This is a sustained campaign of verbal and psychological abuse. The fact that the OP has entertained even a smidgeon of concern that her DP may end up being one of the awful family annihilators we hear about in the news is very, very telling.

OP, if it were me in your shoes, I would organise my escape, do it, and fill him in after the fact. His behaviour does not entitle him to anything more and frankly I think he could be quite dangerous if he knows you're going.

He sounds like a vampire, and a nasty piece of work

what are his reasons for not working?

You're children witness screaming rows every weekend? Dear god, that's not good for them.

"if I get out of this, I am going to be celibate till I die as I dont think I do relationships very well"

What Cog said. this is not about a failure on your part.

this chap is flawed. if he can't communicate whatever is the cause and deal with his issues, really the problem is there.

Yes you are not perfect, nor is anyone, but please don't put yourself in the naUghty corner either. Life has so much to offer.

ofmiceandmen

I was in the same situation as the op as in having my partner as a SAHD while I worked and supported the family

This was his choice, he hated his job, we earned the same but I had better career prospects so he quit and stayed at home

My salary was paid into a joint account which we had equal access to and as far as I was concerned was family money.....

At first

He would undermine me at every opportunity, as soon as I walked through the door he was 'off duty' as he had been doing it all day which meant I worked a 10 hour day inc commute, then came home to start cooking, baths and bed times, mine and the children's washing and tidy up.
If I didn't I was neglecting them, I didn't want to spend time with them, I cared more about work than my family, I was lazy, I didn't give him any time, I didn't care about what he wanted, I didn't respect him etc etc

I was exhausted and snappy so then I was a nasty bitch apparently -the walls came up and I totally disengaged from him, I started resenting the fact that he stayed home and I HAD to go to work

Only once in 7 years did he say he wanted to go out to work which I fully supported but then he decided to start his own business, spent a fortune of family money on tools but then put no effort into advertising or growing his business -he did 1 job in 6 months which earned him £1000 which he kept saying was his money -it just didn't compute to him that he had spent that much and more of family money on the tools

At that point it stopped being family money and I had my salary paid into my own accounts and I paid everything out of that, family allowance went into the joint account and I topped it up so he had some money for himself

That made me a financially abusive sanctimonious bitch

There is a big difference between a normal relationship where one parent stays at home, and an abusive relationship where one parent stays at home

Maybe because I've been through it I can see red flags

-he won't go to work
-he refuses to accept and responsibility for the problems in the relationship
-he's threatening to tell the children that their mother ruined his life
-he's threatening suicide to get his own way

The op admits she has put up walls of steel but there are generally reasons why walls go up in the first place

OP I put up with this behaviour for 8 years of a 12 year relationship

My children and I have a relationship that is a million times better -I thought it was just me walking on egg shells, but it was them doing it too

If he is screaming abuse at you when you are there, what is he doing when you aren't there? My ex was making me out to be a monster to the dcs

Please don't make the mistakes I did by allowing it to go on so long

(Sorry for hijacking)