LTB...LTB...what if they wont leave???

[fromparistoberlin]

not even name changed, unwise??

DP is i think EA, at easter on holiday we had a straw and camel back scenario when he lost his temper to such an extent that I went to church in tears. we have 2 young DS. a holiday that cost me £1000s was ruined.

the scenario we have is he is a SAHD and I work FT.

for a long time now we have a scenrio where EVERY weekend as follows:

row saturday morning
weekend ruined

he says I dont listen, that I disregard him. That might be true

but the fact is through his shouting and temper, a steel wall has closed down

this sat we had spat as due to confusing instructions I could not get the size jeans he wanted for his friend, cue

massive row saturday, in front of kids. screaming
mood all day (I told him he had a choice)
another HUGE screaming row in car sunday, he wont listen just SHOUT and SHOUTS

I am having counselling, and yes he has self esteem issues I know that. and maybe I (with my fancy schamcy career) make him feel shit

But its no excuse to SHOUT and call me names is it? "little fucking piece of shit" is one example

I want to record him when he shouts, as no human being can reasonably cope with it

he holds ME responsible for his misery, its all ME. he has never fucking apologised, ever

But he wont work, refuses to consider an amicable 50:50 split, says horrible things like he will go away, leave kids, even threatened suicide once. he says if we split he will fuck my life up.

I think I need a lawyer, and I think I need help from an outside agency. I think I need to find a room to rent in the week so we can both sleep there and not be around each other. I think he needs to see a counsellor (he says its all my fault)

He also says if he splits its all my fault for fucking his life up, and he will tell boys when they are older

when he shouts he wont listen, my stomach twists. I HATE IT

I cant sleep now, and have to go to work and be a career bitch

I am so scared that maybe its my fault for not loving him enough, and there is a % of me scared that he will do something silly as he sems to have lost all his confidence and had no hope around building himself a new life

IM SCARED and I dont know what to do

and I have to go to work soon, and be tough and strong

if you not married then you wont have to pay him any maintenance at all.

you will be responsible for the children, if you have fifty fifty shared care then you might not need to pay hm child maintenance. but get advice.

who owns the home? what child care could you use if not dp ?

IF he has self esteem issues, bla bla bla then he should see a counsellor too not just take it out on you. you cannot help him. he is an adult. you dont "make" him feel shit. he could do something about his career or lack of and his self esteem . he doesnt have to be sahp right?

and if he feels you and your behaviour does cause him to feel x or y well then logic is you should split....

if he threatens suicide then call 999 police/ambulance to see him have it recorded (you might see how quickly he changes his mind...)

clearly this is not good for kids and yes you ened to split just plan carefully and be careful - that he telling you he will
" if we split he will fuck my life up" - sounds like my ex (similar - i was workign FT he left work to be sahp and hated it..but had lots of other issues including severe Mh issues....threatened many things shold we split. but - you have to do something. or things will remain same for the rest of dc childhoods... he wont - he on some level likes the status quo being in control thru his shouting...

why are you having a break? are you going away without the kids?

I feel for you. so much. I have been where you are. My exH was for 18 months a SAHD. It was probably the worst time of my life. He was very like you describe your H, and he became fixated on tiny things going on and on and on about them. He was, in fact using a LOT of cannabis and cocaine - I only found out about thus after I kicked him out and the extent became clear. I also worried that he was so unstable he might kill the children - that is such a nameless gut fear that one almost feels stupid thinking it, but I felt he hated me so much he knew the one thing that would destroy me was that.

Please get some advice. Fro a solicitor certainly but also form Womens aid who understand this kind of behavior and can support you to separate. As he is not working you may find that you have to pay him spousal support for a limited time whilst he 'gets back to work' The child care arrangements may be complex, but you are their MUM and have rights, do NOt allow him to walk all over you.

I do wonder if he'll really have the children.

I bet he won't want to have them when he'll have to rely on benefits and your maintenance to support them and himself.

I bet he doesn't really want to lose his comfortable lifestyle where he doesn't have to work weekends or in the evening.

Do get as much help as you can.

See if you can convince him to see a gp over his "stress" or something, and go with him. Preferably have witnesses when you have these conversations with him. Even if he refuses to see a doctor.
You can mention the angry outbursts and his "lack of confidence" and suicide threats. They will be on record.
Make an appointment for him and try to make him go.

you dont have to pay him anything spousal if you are not married.

if not married the only obligation you have legally is to your DC (and him to the DC too). you might choose to help him out financially - your choice. if you own home together he has a righ to some of it... depedning on how it is owned eg in common or joint.

who owns the house, is it jointly owned, are there joint bank accounts - thesse are practical things you need to identify. would you be happpy for dc to remain in home with him while you move out? do you need to get him out while you sort out what happens (eg if he threatening suicide then take him seriously...) or ? if dc come to you fifity fifty who will do childcare while they with you?

if he is really unstable threatening suicide get this recorded and reported. call 999 if he threatens in any way.

Also, if you leave with the children and don't answer phone calls, I wouldn't be surprised if he started sending you abuse over txt messages and e-mail.

Use it to your advantage.

(I did. I left with DS. Ex was a SAHP and became physically violent. I ended up getting parental responsibility for DS, full time care, and contact has to be approved my me. He doesn't even maintain reliable skype contact.)

These men don't care about the children. Only themselves.

Is he named on their birth certificates?

lemonstartree and chicken salad

BLOODY HELL, i am amazed you have had such very similar scenarios to me. Its just odd, maybe you read thread title and though "aha".

I am sorry you went through it, but its like you are "me" reading what you say. and yes, Mr Cannabis visits our house alot too......

He is named on their birth certificate. the DC adore him actually, when he goes out they cry and miss him! as he is their day to day carer , they just care for him so much.

hence why its in noones interest (yet) to split them up.

However, enough. I will call womens aid and I will call a soliciter. I want to aim for a 6 month "trial" seperation. If just looked on gumtree and I can can rent a "room" for about £400 near me. My strategy is to have me there in the week, and him at weekends. and get him to start counselling. and basically say this cant go on. fuck the money for now

I cant have my kids grow up, and see this every week/fortnight

Thanks, and again I really am reading and listening

Cogito, thanks for saying "Like many other women you're in danger of regarding this man as someone who is 'damaged' and can be fixed."

yes.....

If you rent a room and intend for him to go there at weekends don't be surprised if he doesn't agree

You can plan it all you want but he could play it as you leaving

You need to make a clean break

If he's abusive and making you so unhappy, then do LTB.

Of course, he is carer, and you'll have to make sure that between you the children are supported.

I don't know about spousal support if you're not married, but I'd expect you'd end up paying 20% ish of your income to support the kids.

Why would you expect him to leave the family home, where he cares for the kids, incidentally?

I dont expect him to leave, it was just a phrase. If you see below, I am suggesting a short term fix whereby I rent a bedsit and we split ourselves between there and home. My kids and their stability come first.

I just want him to stop being such a miserable cxxx and stop shouting
I want him to see a counsellor and take ownership for his unhappiness.

everything else is liveable with

it is a good idea, but what sounds reasnable to you and everyone else - well he just wont move. i thought once i moved out with dc everything would settle, ex would realise why i had moved (after all he disliked me and everything was my fault he would be better off separated right?) and how it was better for dc and and we would get into routine etc. it didnt he didnt... he got even more agressive...

you cant predict what someone unstable/unhappy/shouty willl do... he has made threats already and he will flail around making bigger threats if you do something serious... or - he will change locks and wont let you back in for the weekends... and you will have a fight on your hands.

be very careful that you are not seen to be abandoning the dc....

has he said "i dont like this shouting let's resolve this"?

you want him to do x or y; but does he want to?

has he recognized there is an issue you both need to solve together to find a solution which makes it ok for the kids? or is it just everything is your fault?

kids love their parents whatever.

"when he goes out they cry and miss him" - literallly cry?? what do they say? how old are they? or is it more you ask them to do somethigng and they say "want daddy"?

what happens usually nno a weekend? you take over and dc are happy?

has he said "i dont like this shouting let's resolve this"?

NO!!!!

or is it just everything is your fault?

YES!!!! EVERYTHING

what happens usually oN a weekend? you take over and dc are happy?

Yes, you are right, they snivel a bit of an evening, but day time I do stuff with them and its all great

I need legal advice. He has been making the kids call me on skype today, so I know he feels guilty.

I do beleive that if he 100% realises he will lose me, he will buck up. wishful thinking eh!

How the fuck do people manage these issues, its so hard

He may well buck up -for a week, a month, 6 months -but can you trust that or will you always doubt that he has changed?

Once you are emotionally detached, it's incredibly difficult to get that relationship back, you both have to want to and you both have to be prepared to compromise

guilty? or just playing mind games... has he actually apologised? if he does apologise does it mean anything? or just part of the cycle [to get you to stay with him] til he shouts again...

if he 100% realises he will lose you, he will -

well, you just dont know - he might make it all exceedingly difficult for you/lash out/try to stop you seeing kids/who knows.

you cannot get in his head
you cannot know what he really thinking

you can only think for yourself and act in best interest of dc.

you are doing right thing in deciding to do something - each time there is screaming in front of DC they lose something of their childhood,

what will they remember of growing up? a chance to spend nice times wih each parent separately may be far better than what they get now when you together... but your P might not make it easy for you.

be strong.

Paris I will tell you a (truncated) story

My cannabis & coke using (ex)husband found himself on the street ( back at his parents) in August 2007 after his bad temper (JUST like your H) led to him chasing me around the kitchen with a knife. In his eyes he was never physically abusive to me because he never hit me.... After 6 months in which he begged and wheedled, got himself a job & foreswore drugs I was stupid enough to give him another chance. I told hi then if there was any repeat it would be OVER.

Within 6 months he was regularly getting drunk. Not nice smiley chatty drunk, foul mouthed, aggressive, falling over drunk. He still didn't get it. It took me another two years to realise he would NEVER get it. NEVER BECAUSE HE DIDN'T ACCEPT THAT ANY PART OF IT WAS HIS FAULT. IT WAS ALL MY FAULT, OR HIS PARENTS, OR HIS SCHOOL,OR THE KIDS, THE CAT, THE WEATHER, ANYTHING AT ALL rather than accept the HE has responsibility for his own behaviour. I'm sorry to shout but you are applying logic to a man who has no conscience and no capacity to take responsibility for himself

Tell me how much cannabis does he smoke ?

honestly I think you should collect evidence about his drug use and abusive behaviour - record him on the phone - and LTB with your children

schmaltzing, agree. Its on my to-do list

lemon, I hear you. RESPONSIBILITY.

I am so fucked off, was horrible to kids last night and dreading our "family" fucking holiday next week

c'est lavie

exactly. you make them fucking miserable and are the bane of their life, but they hold on to you. I dont understand!!!!

Do you both do housework/childcare at the weekend?

A side issue when he is so awful, but you say you don't want to do it. You shouldn't have to do all of it, but neither should he or he never has a break. Ideally you should both have a similar amount of 'free' time at the weekends and evenings.

He sounds like you'd be unable to reason with him though.

"He sounds like you'd be unable to reason with him though

correct . and yes, weekends, I kind of take over.

he is realising that I have hit my tether and its not pretty, has been accusing me of having my eyes elswhere, wanting another man. Its going to get FUCKING ALOT worse before it gets better.

defginately womans aid, and legal are my next recourse

I can handle pretty much anything now