Support for those affected by gambling (and a long overdue update)

[picnicfantasic]

Sorry this is so long - just skip to the last para and bullet points if you want to get to the point!!!

So. I am a long time lurker and very occasional poster. A few years ago I posted in this section under the title "DH has spent £25k partying - help" or similar (sorry no idea how to do links).

I got some great advice. Brief premise was that he was working in London in creative role and had got carried away socialising and apparently taking coke and drinking to the tune of £25k. We talked, yadda yadda, thought it was sorted, I organised a debt repayment plan for us, I put the whole thing behind me as a perfect storm created by a whole load of things which we could look at changing.

Anyway, about a year down the line. Turns out ANOTHER approx £20k has been run up in debts. I had totally no idea as socialising had been drastically reduced and I thought things were much better. This time the truth emerges. DH has a long standing gambling addiction. Attends gamcare (him 5 months, me 2 months for support for partners), sort out plan to pay off debts (his half of equity of our house sale), we move into rented and I decide that now the truth is out, gamcare will sort it out and we will be OK. My gamcare councellor talks to me a lot about enabling but I don't really get it. I put the whole thing behind me and move on.

This brings us on another year, up to about a month ago. Despite 5 months at gamcare, self exclusion from various betting shops, me controlling all "pocket" money for dh and family accounts and therefore thinking all is hunky dory, it turns out he has run up a THIRD lot of £20k debt. Gambling.

So we are now getting divorced and I have finally worked out what the councellor was talking about re enabling.

I'm not totally sure the reason why I am offloading all of this except that I have noticed a real run of relationship posts where gambling is the root of the problem. I now feel in the unhappy position of an expert on the subject of being a partner of someone with a gambling addiction, so I just wanted to put out my ten pence worth in case it helps someone else.

• WHATEVER you are doing to try and stop the other person gambling, it won't work. If they want to gamble they will get credit from somewhere and will do so.

• Gambling will turn your partner into a liar. This in turn will erode your trust in them, however great they are in other aspects of life / marriage. You will never be able to trust them again. This will most likely be the end of your relationship, whether you chose to stay in it or not.

• If I knew that my dh was a gambler (and believe me, he kept it WELL hidden) I would never ever have married him. Gambling is a one way road to the gutter.

• A gambler will prioritise gambling over you, your children, your house, your holidays, food on the table, days out, everything. However most likely they will manage to justify this in some way so until you see the light it is difficult to challenge this as the direct truth it is.

• If you find out your partner is a gambler, run. Or at the very least do every single thing you can to protect yourself, your home and any children you may have. Love yourself and your children. Your partner may also love you all, but he loves gambling more.

With love and support to all those affected. I can honestly say that despite the end of a nearly 15 year relationship, I finally feel that I will have some peace from the stress and worry the gambling (and behaviour that was due to gambling but I didn't realise the link as I didn't know about the gambling!) has caused me.

Oh I am so sorry you went through all of that. Truly awful.

Forgive me for asking, but in what way did the Gamcare counsellor suggest you were enabling? I would really like to make sense of that as I'm with a gambler.

I don't mind you asking at all. Basically the first two times the debts were revealed, I was the one to take control i.e. work out debt repayments, re-do our budgets, take control of the finances in terms of family budget and giving dh "pocket money". All this was enabling him.

I don't regret making sure all family bills were paid but ultimately it gave me a false sense of security. Our family bank account was fine but it didn't stop dh running up huge debts on credit cardd etc.

And being the one in control ends up feeling like you are their mum.

Your experience sounds horrendous. Poor you.
I have to give my DH a chance. I have safeguarded my assets, and split our accounts (house etc for me and DS).
If DH falls off the wagon, if he gets credit card debts, he's on his own. If I ever find out he's done it again, the marriage will be over.

Thanks for the enabling info.
Now we have split accounts, I'm not going to do the accounts checks every day anymore.
I'll check maybe every week, at first. To give him back some control.
I hate it. I hate looking at the account, seeing his notes, his receipts, how much he has in his wallet - everyday. We've only been doing it for a month and I don't want to do this forever.
I don't want to go to Gamcare meetings either.
He can do it alone.
We'll continue with the Relate counselling and see where that takes us.

It is very interesting about enabling. When I found out the true extent of my DH's gambling, I did all the research and googling I could and one of the things that leapt out was making the gambler sort their own mess out eg my DH had to negotiate with his creditors to pay off his debts (no taking out loans, consolidating debts, IVAs etc) - he had to work his butt off to pay (and 4 yrs down the line we are getting to the end of the debts (£330K originally not including mortgage).

My DH is over the mental stuff that caused the dive into gambling hell but we are both well aware that he has the capacity to do it again as he has an addictive personality. We talk about it openly.

Good luck to anyone going through it and protect yourself and DCs first an foremost.

Sorry to hear you have been in the same place Intooblivion and countingto10 (£330K gambling debts wow, not in a good way obv ).

Re checking your dh's wallet/cards etc, with hindsight I wouldn't bother as I think it almost becomes a game of cst and mouse...a challenge for them to avoid detection! What I WOULD do is sign up for one of those credit reports that are emailed to you monthly or whenever there is any action, that way you will know the minute your dh has signed up for a credit card/ payday loan etc etc and there is no way for them to bullshit their way out of it.

When I think of how many times my spidey senses / instincts had gone into overdrive but dh managed to deflect me with some rubbish, I could kick myself.

As an aside, counting, HOW have you managed to forgive your dh?!

Hi. Can I too am with a gambler , can I ask into oblivion what you mean about safeguarding your assets And how you did it? I could come into a large inheritance realistically anytime onwards ( my parents - so I hope it won't be for a long long time but I need thAt money to be safe from the possibility of him relapsing.

Hi Pimms. Are you married? I am not a legal expert but as far as I know if you are then the only way to safeguard yourself properly is to divorce.

You can sever all joint accounts and have seperate finances but I think if you inherit while married it is considered part of the pool of family money.

I am divorcing my dh rather than just seperating as coldheartedly I know that I will be due to inherit some money when my parents pass away (hopefully not for many years) and the thought of losing this to gambling or paying off debts rather than using it for the good of my family (myself and dc) was one of the factors in this.

I wish you well.

My heart always sinks when I see a "gambling" thread. It is a very dangerous addiction IMO because of all the addictions it has no limits and can destroy the other person's financial future and security - long after the relationship is over. I have never had a relationship with a gambler, but if I did, I would leave, immediately, without a second thought, and never look back.

Perhaps more space should be given to this issue? You don't hear much about that in terms of "red flags" on MN. I wonder does it often come along with other addictions, or sometimes on its own?

Good luck with being free from all this stress and worry, Picnic, I am sure it will be a load off your mind.

Thank you ARealDame.

Yes although I am not thrilled about being single / "splitting up" the family etc etc I am actually just SO looking forward to the peace of mind, even if we are extremely poor I know I can cope and manage with what we have.

I don't know if it is like buses, but since my own most recent experience I have notice thread after thread re gambling. So so sad and yes I think the worst and most destructive as the limits are so extreme and credit lenders so unscrupulous.

I have obviously become on red alert for all things gambling and am shocked how prevalent it has become, all this friendly "free plays" stuff advertised on daytime telly.

From what I understand though it is a dark dark.industry and one the goverment makes a lot of money from.

Who knows what the trigger is to turn people from a flutter at the grand national to the stories you see on here but I think it is a huge problem and for addicts, one rarely resolved

Sorry for the rant.

And yes I think it does go hand in hand with other / any addictions for people hardwired that way.

Dh is a compulsive gambler.i found out when he told me when i was pregnant with our second child 5 years ago.he went into recovery that night after i told him to choose his family or the gambling.he had amassed a huge amount of debt.
He then became cross addicted to alcohol and is in recovery from alcoholism too.in hindsight he always had a problem with alcohol too.
He has had a few nervous breakdowns and suicidal thoughts since being in recovery but he has not gambled and has stayed dry.mentally he is good now.we had a third child since.a surprise but it worked out very well.
Im optimistic about the future but i dont think you can ever fully relax about it.

Your stories are so enlightening.
Pimms - go and see a solicitor. I called and was offered a 30 min free consultation. (After that it would've been £80ph, but we only needed 15mins.) we didn't discuss inheritance, so I have no idea how that could be affected. Maybe the will/inheritance should be set up in a specific way to safeguard it.
The solicitor told me that because the house is in my name only (title deeds and mortgage) then if DH runs up debts in his name (for non-matrimonial things) he can't touch it. If he ran up debt paying for matrimonial things (family holidays, etc) then I could then become liable.

To be fair to my DH, the debt wasn't all gambling but the gambling caused him to make bad business decisions that made the situation worse all round ie business and gambling. My DH has the capacity to earn well and funnily enough, if you are not gambling £25K plus in one bookies alone in one year (I kid you not), you can repay those sorts of debts.

I forgave him (but not forgotten) because of how he has acted since, he did work his butt off to repay debts, took himself to counselling for months, became a better father and husband (obviously once gambling is no longer a factor you came think of other things ie family, business etc).

He took us to the brink, we did nearly lose everything (we had meetings with a liquidator etc) but he has turned it around and is truly horrified by what he did. Everyone does deserve a chance to prove that they can change (but please protect you and your DCs first).

And don't sort their mess out for them.

Counting i could have written your post.dh has been through hell and back trying to stay in recovery.he is a wonderful person and because of his effort in recovery i gave him that second chance.if he wasnt so commited id have ran for the hills though.

Its always there as a threat in the background and thats hard.i find too that even though the gambling and drinking is gone many of the personality traits are still there especially poor coping skills with everyday stuff.

Has he had individual counselling Specialagent? My DH needed this to work out why he reacts in certain ways, my DH has an overeating problem too - they are all bad coping strategies. DH had an extremely dysfunctional childhood which included a very weak father (who also gambled), an extremely domineering, controlling paternal grandmother who lived with them together with a couple of other elderly relatives. I had to give him a second chance - his DM admitted to me that she felt suicidal during many points in his childhood due to the family setup (she obviously felt unable to change anything).

My DH is still changing, he is now conquering his weight issues too, has only felt mentally strong enough now to do it. In the beginning he was extremely fragile (and I was too because of circumstances) but we got there.

Dear God counting the similarities are striking!
His was also a dysfunctional childhood.dad an alcoholic (lovely man.never abusive.went into recovery after dh cried at 9 yo cos his dad never played with him.sober since).three much older sisters who all adored him alongside his mother but he spent his childhood being bossed around by them and fitting to their agenda.his mother is lovely but has her issues.

He has been to counselling when things got very tough.it really helped.he is a regular at meetings.im extremely proud of him but tbh is is still half cracked and its a long road yet id imagine.
Great dad and dh.very good kind person.ive no regrets staying with him at all.not sure what id do if he relapsed but its not something i dwell on!

Btw having 3 sisters equals 4 mothers in dh's opinion!

Counting dh also overeats.yo yo between super healthy and elvis.hopefully he will address that soin.je is aware.

I think I need to see a solicitor and then get DH to do some more work on his recovery. Thanks all and yes gambling is an evil addiction.

Just wish you so much for the future, Picnic. I know some people seem to be working through this struggle here, as described. But I really feel your pain: I would hate to be taken advantage of or exploited financially (but then even the loss of £1,000 for me would be disastrous, maybe its different if you live in the "fast lane"). Anyway, and I think your plan sounds very liberating and free-ing! Life's too short.

p.s. If you have children, it may also be good that you are protecting them to some extent from being witness kind of habit.

Thanks ARealDame, and other posters for your insights.

Reading comments from those of you who are working with your partners through their recovery has really helped me to clarify that I am doing the right thing. The reasons you give for staying are not sadly present in my (ex) relationship.

My gamcare counsellor told me repeatedly that "things will become clear" and that dh's attitude and behaviour would indicate to me whether or not he was changing his ways. I found this hard to believe (being the enabler / control seeker I was), but it was so true.

I DID give my dh another chance.

His attitude towards me / our relationship / his problems etc did NOT change, and I realise now that I was just plastering over the cracks.

The sad thing is, that when I read others' stories about bad coping strategies, I totally put dh into this category but I think what he finds hardest to cope with, and uses gambling / drink etc as a coping strategy to escape from, is life as a married man with children and responsibilities!!!!

Hi all,

Have been away hence I haven't revisited this thread until now.

H reminded me he needs to see a counsellor upon our return so that's a positive (I am 'waiting and seeing': this absolutely has to come from him). I have to be honest though, I'm not sure I can ever trust him fully again having been blatantly lied to. Does that ever come back? I'm just not sure how things will pan out.

I want to protect my children's inheritance too. They are from my previous marriage. I'm terrified that if something happened to me, as lovely as H can be, he would gamble or fritter some of 'their' money. Does that make me mercenary? I hate this feeling.

(OiMissus here again). The way I view it is that if I secure all mine and DS's finances, so that they are not at threat, only then can I give the relationship a chance.
DH now governs his own money. We have agreed that he will print off monthly statements and file them away. If I want to, I can check. If I want to for my peace of mind, but I'm not "checking".
We are going to slowly start to attempt to rebuild trust.

So do guy have separate bank accounts stiletto? H recently closed his sole account after I discovered he'd been gambling using it and we only have the joint account now for financial transparency. Do you think this is foolish?