Seeing toxic parents and enabling aunt at weekend - please hold my hand and give me advice!

[Lottapianos]

Parents live in another country so don't see them very often. Parents have decided to come to UK and will be staying with my aunt. Will see them all on Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon. Parents are narcissists - unbelievably long history of emotional abuse, gaslighting, minimising, the usual. I've been in therapy for 3 years now - it's helping hugely but it's a long slow process and I'm going through a big dip at the moment.

I do want to see them but am dreading it at the same time - toxic families are bloody complex as we all know. DP will be with me which is a huge support. What I really want to do is detach - detach myself emotionally so nothing they say or think can hurt me. Please help me build up my emotional strength over the next couple of days so that I am ready to face them and can get through it and come out feeling good about myself.

Thank you all

Hi Lotta. I have just one question.. Why do you want to see them?

I'm not ready for no contact. I still love them, in a way. There's a tiny part of me that hopes they will start to be decent to me - although the larger part of me knows this will never happen. I feel I am expected to see them and can't cope with other people's judgement right now. I think I would feel really sad if I didn't see them.

Good luck to you. I know how hard it can be. Tell your dp to remind you at regular intervals that they are toxic and you can dismiss what they say.

Also, because you see them so infrequently they know nothing of the reality of your life so ignore what they say regarding that. Anything they bring up about your childhood is when you really need dp to hold your hand and maybe speak up for you.

I'm glad you won't be alone. I'll be thinking of you.

Hand holding on offer. Can you have a code word with your DP so that if it gets too much, your DP comes up with a sudden emergency and you all have to leave?

That would give you the opportunity to leave if and when you want to with out risking a confrontation which you might not be ready for. Good luck.

I'd approach it like an anthropological expedition. You know the sort.... observing human behaviour the way David Attenborough observes lions mucking about in the savannah? Keep a polite distance, therefore, keep the conversation to banalities (weather, roadworks) and view them as the oddities they clearly are. If they deliberately try to upset you by saying anything nasty, tell them it's unacceptable and then tell them you're leaving. Their loss.

Personally, I think that it does far more good for your psyche and your self-esteem to control the environment and express yourself than it does to timidly skulk in corners hoping that if you ignore them they'll got away.

If it is very bad on the Saturday evening, I would make a last minute excuse for Sunday. I wish I could offer more advice, but sadly can't. Know what this feels like. Also have something nice lined up for yourself.. even if it just an internet shop treat for Sunday evening when get home so you have something small to look forward to.

you're in a very difficult situation and i feel for you. i can only give you tips i've picked up along the way (5 years of therapy) and hope that they help:
short visits - this is my number one way of managing my relationship with my mother. anything longer than an hour and it's just too hard not to get upset.
label the behaviour - in my head, when she is being passive-aggressive or using other tactics to manipulate my emotions, i simply say to myself "that's indirect communication" "that's an attempt to get a reaction" this seems to help me stay detached from the situation and not react.
be direct with them - if my mother starts to talk about something i don't want to talk about (particular trigger topics she uses to get a reaction) i say "i don't want to talk about that" it might feel weird if you're not used to being so direct, so practise (maybe role-play with DP). just keep repeating, don't get dragged into conversations you don't want to be part of. if my mother gets upset i say "i'm sorry you're upset but i really don't want to talk about that"
give yourself a break - you will not be able to stay completely emotionally detached. accept the way you feel - you've lived with this for a long time and healing will not happen quickly, but it will happen. you might get upset and feel bad after they've visited but that's understandable and you must not lose sight of the progress you've made.
be strong and good luck.

I like the 'anthropological expedition' idea Cogito

When I'm with them I will go into Don Draper mode - cool and polished and relaxed and completely together on the surface at least. I do analyse what they say like fishandmonkey suggested and this helps to stop me getting caught up or overwhelmed at the time. I'm also planning to do a lot of 'smile and nod' responses. I plan to behave in a way that will make me proud of myself - they can behave like assholes if they want to.

Thank you all so much for responding. The thing that has been upsetting me most in the last few days is feeling so alone, like no one understands how this feels. You have all made me feel a lot less desperate and more hopeful that I can get through this in one piece.

Lotta, you will get through in one piece.

Keep the distance. Learn to recognise the triggers. If you learn to nod and smile you're through the woods

It has taken me many many years to be able not to respond to my mother trying to stir things up. She was really confused at first when I didn't get upset, angry, etc and I keep conversation very shallow so not to be tempted to tell her anything that matters to me as it would be twisted to beat me with in the future.
I have a very supportive dh as well, that is a big help. Good luck.

I had a grandmother that was like Colonel Gaddafi in a hairnet. No fluffy old lady this one. Offensive, manipulative, violent, charming ... screw loose, basically. If she wanted to express annoyance with someone she'd go about them with her walking stick. We had a family NC deal going there & I was too young & unimportant to be in the direct line of fire, but the few times we crossed paths it was morbidly fascinating... like rubbernecking a car-smash...

Keeping conversation to shallow topics is a great idea CinnamonAddict. I feel I can't share anything with them that is important to me because it could all get thrown back in my face at any moment. It's so sad that you can't share anything with the people who should love you more than anything in the world. That's a hard thing to accept.

Brief update.....

Had a couple of truly horrific days earlier in the week and felt on the floor emotionally. Had thoughts of self-harm which I do when I'm feeling really low about all this, but didn't act on them (never have). Weekly session with therapist on Wednesday was absolutely gruelling, but helped so much.

I think just giving myself a bit of time to feel horrendous and to acknowledge what I was feeling and why has worked wonders. I feel pretty calm and stable about things now. I'm totally fine about seeing them at the weekend. I was thinking of somewhere for us all to go for dinner on Saturday night and I caught myself stressing about it - would the food be ok? Will it be too noisy/crowded/pricey/whatever? And I made myself stop it - there is no point trying to impress my parents because nothing is ever good enough. So I stopped trying to come up with somewhere perfect, and have booked somewhere that will probably be really nice, and have stopped stressing about it.

Thank you all again - talking about this and having sympathetic responses helps more than I can say

Fabulous update - and thank you, Lotta! I've got a family doooo this weekend, as well, being hosted by the narcy brother who's recently shunted me from his "Like" list to "Loathe". It really hurt me, despite thinking I was prepared for it, and I've fallen straight back into the old routine of self-checking to be good enough for him. That's never gonna happen, of course, and you have just reminded me what's really going on.

Big, heartfelt Here's hoping we both enjoy ourselves!

'and I've fallen straight back into the old routine of self-checking to be good enough for him'

We never are going to be good enough for these people because nothing ever is. That is such a painful thing to have to accept though

I hope you have a good time and that brother stays out of your way. for you too!

He will stay out of my way, but his puppets children will be trying to catch me out. I shall remember not to try & dent their denial, which I might have risked if you hadn't posted. I shall be Charming Aloof Aunt this time, instead of Mad Emotional Aunt - and put my effort into guests who aren't related by blood

So sad that he's using his children as puppets - classic emotional abuser/narc behaviour!

Other posters have advised being aloof and detached but pleasant, and reminding yourself to just smile and nod anytime things get difficult or if someone starts setting out bait for you. That's what I'm planning to do. I find I can't risk being in any way emotional with my family - they love it, because it plays right into their 'Lotta is a drama queen and all-round nutter' theory

Hope you meet some lovely people there and have fun with them!

It's all good. I just need to keep in mind that I'm watching a soap
More to you.

Wow Lotta! You and I have VERY similar parents and I was in an almost exact same scenario last week. I only barely survived it!

It's amazing how many of us have similar experiences on here Snoopy. Did you feel pretty shattered this week? I find that seeing my parents feels like going to flipping war - I spend at least a week before it strapping on every bit of emotional armour I possibly can, then at least a week after it feeling shellshocked and re-living it all!

You did survive it though so well done to you Do give yourself time to feel whatever you're feeling, it really helps even if it feels like hell at the time.

Fish and monkey and the one with the hair--- what excellent advice!!

They love to batter you with the things that are close to your heart cinnamon. Very insightful!

Wow garlic dent their denial. I love this expression! I fear I may have done this with one of my own relatives recently! Oops!

Lotta I too always spend 3 days at a time on the floor emotionally. It's crazy but then I usually have a big cry and feel better. I think for me it's about waves of grief. Grief for the family I would like but don't have and for the slow death of this dream.

Thanks Lotta I just saw that last message. Yes I spent a week beforehand grieving the father I wanted. The one who doesn't criticise me. The one who says supportive things. The one who treats his grandson with love and respect. You know... the one who I've never actually met!

I was only semi prepared but I set set a boundary that I was very proud of myself for. I simply said that if he wanted to offer his help, he should do it because he wants to and not because he feels he has to. I warned him that a grouchy fit from him would not be tolerated. Honestly it's sometimes like dealing with another toddler. I did have a long cry afterwards when the numbness left me, a couple of days after seeing him. That helped. I will have a similar (except even more difficult) encounter with my other 'parent' in the coming months and I am DREADING it! I may just leave it until Christmas actually.

'Grief for the family I would like but don't have and for the slow death of this dream'

Yes yes, this exactly. Beautifully put.

I know that the extremes of emotion can make you feel crazy but please remember that it's a hell of a thing to deal with. It's perfectly understandable to feel such anger and pain and despair and sadness and whatever else you might be feeling. And it's got to come out,that's the bugger about it - it's all got to be felt and processed and released or it just makes you seriously ill.

We are very similar - as soon as I'm done with one 'encounter' with my parents, I'm dreading the next one! And please don't even get me started on the dreaded C-word, how does the song go again? 'it's the most utterly hellish time of the year (for anyone with family problems)!'

'Grief for the family I would like but don't have and for the slow death of this dream'

That exactly. On top of actually having to deal with the person, this is how I feel every time I see my mother. Overwhelming sadness and anger because she could have given me that family if she wasn't so wrapped up in herself.

I have avoided a weekend in London with her for four years now but the excuses have run out. We're going at the end of August and I don't know how I'm going to keep my composure for three days. :(

Good luck tomorrow Lotta if I don't get to post it. We will be here for you however it goes.