I know I should forgive my dh but I am finding it really hard, really hurt by this..

[Irishchic]

My dh and I went through a bad patch a few years ago. We used to have awful fights that lasted for hours, and the effects would last for days. When he was at his worst he accused me of being just like my father.

This really hurt, as my father was emotionally abusive to all of us 6 kids and we are all damaged to a greater or lesser extent today as a result of this abuse. My dh is totally au fait with my family history and the awful things my father put me and my mum and siblings through, so to turn around and throw this at me, "you are just like your father" really just hurt me so much i can hardly explain, especially when it comes from the one person who is supposed to be your friend and lover and supporter, its almost like suffering the abuse all over again.

When things improved he felt awful about having said this, and promised never to again. However, things have been slipping backward lately and we have started arguing more, mainly over the amount of time he spends away on weekends golfing or with mates, and lately on a family holiday going off to the pub to watch matches and staying for hours leaving me with our kids to mind, and coming back a but bit drunk.

I have had a few arguments lately with him and recently he threw the father line at me again. Then recently on the family holiday, in fact it was on our last day, (he had spent 3 hours out watching the lions game then wanted another 2 hours to himself to watch wimbledon and i got really annoyed with him about not spending at least a few hours on our last day with me and the kids) he had a few pints on him and lashed out with this line, "you are just like your father!"

I walked away from him there and then and refused to continue the (heated) discussion. He has since apologies profusely for this, agrees he was a prick, and feels really bad. Yet, although things are calm and seemingly ok between us, or at least he thinks they are, I feel so SO hurt, angry and almost hate him for speaking to me like this. He also during that same row swore at me in front of two of our kids, my 11 year old dd and 5 year old ds, and i cannot forgive for this either. I feel like i still hate him for this, just cannot seem to get over this, move on, forgive him and get on with things.

He is oblivious to this and thinks things are fine, though no sex lately but that is not unusual as we have 5 young kids and sex is scarce anyway. There is NO way i want to have sex with him at the moment and can just about manage to chat with him when he comes home in the evening to pretend all is normal.

Should I be pretending? Should i tell him i still really am angry and hurt over this? Should i just forgive and gorget and move on?

I think that he uses that horrible line as a weapon, a nuclear option when his back is to the wall and he knows he's blatantly in the wrong. It's a cheap stunt.

Presumably he does not think you are like your abusive father, or else he wouldn't leave you alone with the kids. In fact, he almost certainly knows you are a fantastic mother. But he is aware of his own failings and uses the lowest of low blows to deflect his issues back on you. It is shit.

He needs to know that his behaviour is actually abusive itself, and that you will not accept it. Keep talking until you're satisfied he understands. Be prepared for that point maybe never being reached. You might need a nuclear option of your own.

When he's calm can he explain what he meant, or is he saying it because he know's it will hurt you?

Agree totally with Morris.

Thanks Morris. You are right. I know he knows that it is untrue. I am the furthest thing from my father you could ever meet.

But why would the person who is meant to love and support you compare you to a man who almost destroyed his children and who continues even to this day to try and undermine them?

It is abusive and I am going to have to point this out to him and be honest about it.

I dont know what my nuclear option would be, but if this continues to happen, leaving him would certainly be an option i would consider.

It's his trump card isn't it. He is using it to deflect from the fact he doesn't think he has to spend time with you and the kids. This is also bullshit - how, when on holiday did you become the default carer?

Hi,

Perhaps writing down the things that are making you suffer and reflecting a bit on the list before doing anything may help. Maybe then when there is a moment where you are getting on you might appeal to his better nature. Talk to him about the things that are making you feel sad but tell him in way that is non accusatory but showing him that you want to change things a little for your whole family's sake because you love him and them.
I would find the sport watching habit unbearable but I have never had to deal with this kind of obsession in a man. It sounds as if he may be in denial about something in his life if he needs to immerse himself so much in other things when on holiday with his family.
I do hope you come through this painful patch in your relationship and have a breakthrough.

Bibblebo thank you for your kind and wise words. I think you are right that he is in denial about something. i sometimes think he is unsuited to family life and is more of a bachelor by nature, however, he has kids now and has to step up. His verbal cruelty, though rare, is intolerable.

So he wanted to spend 5 hours watching sport on TV on a family holiday while you presumably took care of the kids and you think you should forgive him for telling him you're like your father?

I agree with Morris - it's a line he throws at you because he knows it shuts you up

Agree with Morris completely. Do you get time away as he does? I know this wasn't your main issue here, but it might help the overall dynamic if you weren't always cast in the role of bad guy stewing at home and castigating him when he comes home from his time in the pub etc. Can you schedule time in for you to go to the pub, gym, whatever?

He absolutely should be doing more with the kids. Going off for 5 hours on holiday is incredibly selfish. In the light of that I would see his use of the father 'nuclear option' as projecting his own inability, that day at least, to be a decent dad. What was his own family background like?

Dh has just come to bed now so have to pick this up tomorrw as dont want him reading this next to me! Thanks to all for advice, i need to hear this stuff.

Exactly what MorrisZapp said.

It's a silencing techinique and no, you should not forgive him until he acknowledges what he is doing when he does this.

Once it's out in the open - that he's using this line to shut you up because he's in the wrong - then that line loses its power.

I would also point out to him that if he thinks you're so bloody abusive, what the hell is he doing enabling you to damage your kids by being their primary carer.

Excuse my language but why the fuck should you forgive him?

He behaved like a total arse and then said the worst thing he could think of to get you to shut up.

Just saying sorry doesn't cut it, he needs to acknowledge the reasonable point you are trying to make and actually do something about it.

I would definitely say something soon or you're going to slowly bubble away with anger and resentment until you explode and it'll all come out in a mess.

Discuss calmly away from kids, if you can. What he said was awful, it's horrible when someone compares you to someone very awful and abusive. Been there.

I know I should forgive my dh

No actually, there is no should about it. (E.g. If he hit you, should you forgive etc etc. Of course not)

Forgiveness is earned, not given as a compulsory act because you should. This may seem pedantic but its an important point.

You currently feel obliged to tolerate this and even 'forgive' Why? Don't tolerate it. Forgive maybe, but only when it merits it.

I agree with all the others that he is using a vulnerability in you to allow him to behave like an arse. He is being abusive. Not you. Please don't let him. Stand up to him now

Are you "just like" your mother, by any chance? Is she one of those wives whom people refer to as a saint?

Forgive him? Why? Do you aspire to be a doormat??

He has been intolerably cruel on several occasions, to 'shut you up/close you down'.

Why does he feel it's OK to do that? And clearly he does as this is (at least) the third time he's done it? Once, maybe, in total anger... maybe... but 3 times??

I'm not sure I could get past it tbh. Even if he 'promised' not to do it again, I don't think I'd want to be with someone who would treat me like that. Someone who could repeatedly say something they knew would hurt me so much.

Irishchic

If anyone is like your father here its the man you married. He is likely to be a carbon copy of your dad.

We learn about relationships from our parents, what did yours teach you?.

What do you think the children are learning from the two of you now about relationships?.

Is this really the model of a relationship you want to be showing them?.

Even if he apologises, should you forgive him time and time again?

It seems like you have reached tipping point.

He needs to stop and you should tell him this.
He needs to step up as a parent and husband.

Decide what you will do the next time he says hurtful things to you or swears and tell him this. Then carry on if necessary.

I'm sorry to say it but it's highly likely that, unless you've done some work on it (eg therapy), you married someone with similar traits to your abuser. ie your father

He knows the line. He crosses it, repeatedly. He is full of apologies, saying he'll never do it again, blah blah. What does that remind you of? It is what abusers do when they hit their victim - I'm so sorry! I will never do it again! etc. Then they do it again. Because they got away with it.

I don't see why you 'should' forgive him tbh. What he has done is right up there, The Crime in your relationship, destroying your trust.

I'd counsel against long arguments in the future iiwy. If you haven't done any work re your father's abuse then I'd recommend you do. I'm sure you wo't have a lot of time with 5 small kids... but perhaps Mr Bachelor can do his job of being their father and a family man and support to his wife while you go off for your appointments.

I@m sure there are plenty of things you'd like to go off and do for 5 hours while he looks after the kids btw.

Yes, don't worry about forgiving him. It's a below the belt blow, and if he really wanted your forgiveness for using that comment he wouldn't repeat it.

I'm not sure if you would marry someone like your DF. Ime you marry someone you believe to be the opposite of your horrible DF but don't see the faults the partner does have until later in the relationship. So perhaps he was fun and kind but you missed the selfish streak.

The thing is eventually the DCs will be older and not require constant supervision and he will be free to watch sport (possibly with the DCs) for as long as he wants. And you will have more time too.

I wonder what you have these long angry fights about.

But you could look for more interests outside the home for yourself, as mentioned above, then you will have less time together to fight and perhaps being less cooped up at home will make the rows and his comments of less importance to you as you will have wider horizons and other nice people in your life.

You're not arguing with him because you're like your father. You're arguing with him as a direct result of his shit behaviour as a husband. Seriously, anyone with any self respect would be up in arms about being treated like this. It sounds like you have reached your limit.

I echo the suggestion about starting to make a life for yourself, out of the home, independent of him. It will at least help to put things in perspective.

But how is OP going to do that if she has 5 small children in the house and a husband who thinks he is a bachelor and is not available to share the load of said young family.

LesMiss I thought you were going to say 'You're not arguing with him because you're like your father. You're arguing with him because he's like your father.'

I would suggest that it is your husband who is just likebyour father if you are talking emotional abuse.

To know the thing that has caused you the most pain in life and to spit it out at you to hurt you?

Doesn't that sound like emotional abuse?

Perhaps you should point that out to him!

But he's not sorry for saying it or he wouldn't have said it again, you need to ask him why he thinks it's okay to hurt you like this cos that's the worst thing he could say to you.

As for the wanting to go off on his own whilst you look after his kids - he's defensive because he wants to act like a single man, again, you need to spell it out to him that he's a parent too so it's a joint job to parent them. What were the awful fights about?

TBH he sounds like your father and you sound like your mother, trying to keep the peace.