advice on separation

[nancysgirl]

Just a desperate plea for advice from anyone who has been through a separation/divorce.

Things have finally hit rock bottom with my H and I am seriously thinking of asking him to leave. Am concerned about money, access etc. What do i do?

Sorry, v short-typing with DD on lap!

Honey go straight to see a solicitor - what exactley are you worried about, what are your circumstances etc with regards to who owns the house, who works etc...

Also how old is your child(ren)??

seek advice from experts (Citizens advice etc about any legal matters inc. access). Put into place a family/friends support network. Once you've made your mind up go for it as quickly as possible - it reduces the pain and trauma in the long run. Good luck

sorry to hear this nancysgirl

For practical advice, i'd recommend going to the CAB for a start - they'll be able to advise on financial/legal stuff and tell you where to go from there. You'll also need legal advice from a solicitor. Most of all you'll need plenty of moral and emotional support from friends/family. Even when a relationship has irretrievably broken down, relate can help - don't know what your circumstances are or if your H would be willing to go along with it. I haven#t used them for years, but they used to see people on an individual basis, so you could go on your own if H doesn't want to.

Sorry for rambling - have been through it myself and I know what it's like. Good luck X

God aaagh!!

Have just rung 3 local solicitors and they were SO rude!! As if I'm not in a bad enough state as it is!

Twinkie I am worried that we will have to sell the house and that I will not be able to afford anywhere where we live without going back to work full time and then I will have to put my precious DD in nursery full time and that will break my heart. Added to that I will then have to be apart from her when he has access and I don't see why I should suffer when he's the b***d who's caused all this in the 1st place. She#s the only good thing in my life at the moment. I am so sad that she will suffer aswell. I want her to have a Mummy and Daddy who love each other and her but it's all gone so horribly wrong

Sorry about the solicitors - that is atrocious. Where did you find them? Out of the phone book? You need a specialist family law solicitor or preferably a firm that specialises in family law.

If you call the law society they will be able to put you in touch with firms in your area.

Right what questions do you need answering?

Access - he would get access (if there is not something that goes against him terribly, drugs, violence etc...). You would either get residency or joint residency - that means that DD would live with you but if it is joint residency it means that he would also have a right to make (joint)decisions about her future - school, medical treatment etc...

How old is your DD?? - that is a big factor in how long she spends away from you - and I did feel like you at one point that I never wanted DD to see her father again and even now have that thought when he is being an utter bastard but at the end of the day he is her father and she has a right to see him. Believe me it will get to the point where you would be glad of the rest and peace and quiet, even if it just for a couple of hours at the weekend but this all depends on his suitability as a father (what has been doing that makes him so bad - sorry if there is a thread that I have missed??)

No one is going to force you to go to work - he, by law, has to keep a roof over your head as you are the main carer for DD. Things may be tight - you may have to claim income support etc (you will get child support from him and maybe even maintenance until you are properly divorced) but you cannot be forced to work.

You have also got to be aware of the fact that he may refuse to move out - will he have somewhere to go - can he afford to get somewhere and still keep on the family home - does he have family or friends he can go and bunk with??

Hope this helps - please carry on posting - I hope it helps. XXX

Just to add, you probably won't need a residency order unless your h contests her living with you, which he probably won't. Depending on the age of your dd contact can be anything from a couple of hours a week to staying over contact every other weekend and half the holidays. It's for her benefit rather than his, ideally. Unless your house is enormous you may well be able to stay in it until your dd is grown up when it will be sold and part of the proceeds will go to your ex. A financial settlement will involve sharing all your assets, including his savings, pension etc. You will get money to look after your dd plus benefits as Twinkie says. The court can even order your h to pay all the mortgage AND transfer the deeds into your name - it really is as variable as that, so you do need the help of a family solicitor to give you an idea of what's realistic in your case. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Thanks all for your advice. I eventually contacted my SIL who works for Legal Aid board and she put me on to someone who I am seeing tomorrow. I feel so awful though, not saying anything to H-I am doing this all in secret cos I need to be fully prepared before I say anything to him.

He has come home today,being sweetness and light-bathed dd for 1st time in a year, cleared up after dinner, suggested going out on Sat etc etc. Too much too late IMO!!

What has he done-well haven't got enough time to tell you now!! Plus you would never get through it all before a week next Tuesday!! But the final straw was Sat night when he told me to f**k off when I objected to his going out AGAIN on Sun. I just suddenly woke up to myself and thought what the hell am I putting up with this crap for?

So now he can face the consequences! Do I mean it? Will I be able to go through with it?

BTW dd is 2 and a half-does this have a bearing on anything?

Nancysgirl - you are obviously unhappy, the relationship is obviously in crisis. Yes longterm it is probably better for your DD for you to be happy and to be without him.

BUT, children put a huge strain on relationships and there are some quite scary figures on the percentage of relationships that split up within the first five years of a childs birth.

The question is can it be fixed, are both of you willing to put the work in to make it work. At least give him a chance, without threatening to walk out. What you need is a way to show him how close he is to losing everything, something to make him take notice.

Why are you unhappy ? It is unlikely to be just because of his unreasonable behaviour. Think of specifics that you can request - one night a week out with friends, a course you want to do etc... That is much easier than a blank "I'm unhappy, you're s*t approach."

I went to the doctors and got prescribed AD's, didn't take them as DP got his act together and started to support me which is all that I needed.

Nancy'sgirl, some people find Relate very very helpful. If he's been violent or abusive, then I'd say get out now. If you used to be happy and you have drifted apart, then it might be good idea to get some joint counselling rather than jumping straight to divorce. What do you think?

FYI Nancygirls post on the "help" thread - I think this helps us understand what's going on in her life....I don't have any good advice to offer though....

"Spook, my heart goes out to you. You are being so strong-I admire you.

I too have been through a similar experience. I discovered my DH's affair last June. I asked him to leave straight away even though it broke my heart to do it. We had not been getting on well for a long time and I was almost glad of a real excuse to get him to go. The problem was, I allowed him to come back too soon. I wasn't at all sure if I could get over the affair or even if I could still love him, but I allowed him to come back after a week. Now, 7 months later I really regret this decision because he has never really grasped how hurt I was/still am. In fact, i think he really thinks I should have got over it by now. He has done v little to rebuild my trust,despite me spelling out what I needed to him, and doesn't even think he should have to.

So, please just take time to think it all through and be sure of your decision, whatever it is. You have a right to be happy. "

Also FYI, in case people do have specific help for NG, her threads are Advice needed (Again) and From bad to Worse, in RElationships.

Nancysgirl, really sorry to hear that it is getting worse, but he really hasn't made any moves to help you, has he? Is it Spooks thread where her DH admits that his horrible behaviour since his affair has been caused by his own guilt....do you think that might be what is driving your DH?

How was your appointment today? There is nothing wrong with you having knowledge of the facts, and anything which makes , and able to take the decisions which are in your best interest for your own long-term happiness. Seeking advice doesn't have to be a self-fulfilling prophecy...but it might give him a much needed jolt!

Thinking of you.

I actually think that the reason nancysgirl is so unhappy could be down to her DH's unreasonable behaviour, KAz33. It can be utterly soul-destroying.

Fair enough - realised after reading further posts that I was not aware of all the facts. Thats me, put my foot in it Kaz.

Thanks Blu. Sorry Nancysgirl, I think you've done more than enough in fact. He's being a total arse. Yes, go and find out your position and then decide. He certainly doesn't seem to be fighting for your relationship. I'm sorry you are having to put up with this. All previous advice stands though. You will almost certainly be able to stay in the house, he will have to pay up, support you to some extent and your dd with 15% of his salary and you will be entitled to half his money at least. Good luck.

Have just got back from solicitor and dd has gone for a much needed nap, so I thought I would let you all know what went on.

Well, basically it is not good news in many ways. Solicitor reckons he is having an affair as she has "seen it all"! Plenty of grounds to divorce him on adultery, or more likely, unreasonable behaviour.

Financially she says we would have to psell the house cos even if he signed it over to me I couldn't afford the mortgage, let alone anything else as I only work 1 day a week. So we sell up, but I still won't be able to afford anything without going back to work full time which I don't want to do as DD is only 2 and a half PLUS i HATE my job!!

She also said she thought H needed counselling, has never accepted responsibility as a parent and acts like a single man-all true really. But he told me last year after the affair that he would seek counselling about his "issues" as part of the patching up process and he hasn't. In fact he told me he had been to GP and GP had referred him but has never heard anything more or bothered to chase it up so I am sure that was a lie too.

All i thought at the end was how difficult it's going to be to go thru with it all-does that sound pathetic? Also had a forlorn hope that if i tell H about how far I've gone it might shock him into doing something??!! Or shall I just give him an ultimatum and say unless you do X,Ya ndZ then its over?

Any ideas?

PS Already on AD's!!

Er no your solcitor is wrong - you do not have to sell the house - what utter rot and I think she has overstepped the mark telling you that he must be having an affair - that is not her place.

One of my friends threw out her DH and as he could not afford to pay all of the mortgage the DSS paid it for her - effectively they have to step in and help out at the end of the day and as for you having to go back to work what a crock of shit - that is what the welfare state is there for anyway!!

Nancysgirl, I don't know where you live...I wonder whether you are within reach of Twinkies solicitor?

Sorry, anyway, that for the time being, the trip to solicitors hasn't made you feel stronger. As for ultimatums, what would you say, and what do you wnat the outcome to be? It may be that the simple information that you have sought advice re your rights signals to him that you are absolutely serious about not being messed about like this. However, if you issue an ultimatum, are you prepared for him to say 'O.k, if that's the way you want it...' and walk? In all honesty, it doesn't sound as if things will improve for you unless he does do the things he has promised, (get counselling,) and develop a more sensitive acceptance that his absenses are not helping you. From the receipt to the counselling, he just doesn't face up to things, does he?

If you have now decided that you really do want him to leave, then I would get a second opinion from a different solicitor; you don't want to enter into splitting up without having all your ammunition lined up.

I agree with Twinkie - not her place at ALL. Also, no, you shouldn't have to sell the house. How many bedrooms is it? Roughly how much does your h earn? It is perfectly possible that you will keep the house and he will have to pay the mortgage and you will only have to sell once your dd has grown up. Have you been to the CAB?

Hi
Am 'cheating' as I know you in real life nancysgirl - ( It can't be hard to work out who I am even if I've never told you my cyber name - I can't remember if I have or not!)
I'm not sure how secure your email is, so I reckoned I'd be safer posting here - having responded as I did to FR earlier this evening I suddenly decided I'd been rash.

Knowing more of the whole picture than most here I will state categorically that you must do SOMETHING - the 'what' is debatable, but as I said on Sunday you cannot carry on letting H bully you and turn you into a shadow of yourself.
'Leaving' him is scarey yes - and I'm not saying be any means that you HAVE to do that - you are the one saying that he can't/won't change and therefore you have no future- I don't know him well enough to know if that is true or not. One thing that IS certain is that he won't change ( or at least not in the forseable future) unless you do something to force change.
You've 'done' reasonable and understanding and grown up/mature and just lived with the situation etc etc - hasn't worked with him has it?
I don't think you need ( or would want really) to ''throw him out''. If you face him with a calm ultimatum...
NO locks on mobile phones.
NO bills online with secure passwords.
NO laptops that you don't also have access to.
Only limited time 'out' at weekends.
Being treated with respect at all times.
and just see how he reacts. Make it plain that if he starts to shout and bluster and get aggressive that the ultimatum you gave him before still holds. If he wants to retain anyhope of ever staying as two parents to dd together then he needs to start communicating with you and cooperating. If he can't /won't and chooses to storm out/go to 'her' then so be it, (if he does that of his own acccord he is very unlikely in the short term to refuse to pay the mortgage because he has left you.) YOu do not need to say that you want him to go ( at the end of the day you're not really sure you DO want him to are you?) But you DO want him to treat you with respect and the secrecy he's showing now was NOT part of the agreement when you had him back and is probably hiding his affair - but even in the remote possibility that it isn't, his behaviour is giving you grounds to believe he is and that is unacceptable.

My aunt got part of her mortgage paid too, when she divorced my uncle so that is wrong.

Blimey Bayleaf. What a corking post.

Thanks Bayleaf!!!!

You did tell me your chat name! I presume I wasn't hard to spot!!

I am thinking along the same lines as you re the list of things he has to change, but I want to add something about looking after dd aswell AND something about counselling-for him not me or us that is. YNWIM BAyleaf, where as no-one else will, but some kind of help for his past issues and agression. What do you think?

Email def NOT secure at home BTW

ARRRGGHHH - well go and delete bitchy one from me then!!! QUICKLY!
Yes - think you're spot on with the ''dd has two parents - and this is what being a parent involves'' addition to any ultimatum.
As you've said so often - he goes straight for the '' so you're saying I'm a bad parent!'' defence on any occasion so he'll no doubt do t again - you can only do your best to pick a moment when you're feelign very calm and in control - cos you know what you're about to do - adn he doesn't - and, as you've proved you are extremely good at doing in the past, just stay as calm as you can despite any over reaction from him - but stick to your guns. YOu might not have any ''fine print'' actually written down - but make sure you really have thought through exactly what ''fine print'' you mean - eg how may hours per month he can be ''away'' at weekends - and then do your best to stay absolutely calm and reasonable - but unmoveable.
And yes - he does need to do counselling by himself - I think possibly something like the Atlow Mill thing would be good as a starter.
And yes, he might just refuse point blank and walk out and go to 'her'. And that would be seriously scarey -but BETTER than staying in a relationship which is making you very unhappy - and which if he isn't prepared to 'do' the contract, has no reasonable chance of ever making you happy.
Maybe in some ways it's better to do this BEFORE we have proof of the relationship being back on as that will only inflame the situation.
And incidentally if you dare apologise for ringing one more time I might just put the phone down on you or somthing. It is hideous enought feeling this vicariously - I can't begin to imagine how awful it is for you - if talking EVER helps at anytime then ring.

I, too, think your solicitor is talking a crock. The fraction of your wages you would have left after paying full time childcare couldn't pay a mortgage, by the sounds of it. Not without contribution from H in some form. Is there any chance of you seeing another solicitor?