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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

is this an abusive relationship?

26 replies

icycoldfruit · 15/07/2013 17:38

I have had to name change for this one, please note I will name change back again afterwards and so won't post again on this thread so I am not outed by asking these questions.
If a person has really low self esteem and thinks that they need to be punished for something that they have done and their husband agrees to punish them and does things that the person dislikes and finds upsetting and scary then are they in an abusive relationship? What if the person persuades their husband to do it when he says he doesn't want to?
What if the husband finds that he enjoys it and so the woman goes along with it because it means she is being punished for what she has done wrong?

OP posts:
Mabelface · 15/07/2013 17:41

It sounds pretty fucked up to be honest, and no partner should put another in the position where they are doing upsetting and scary things. Also, adults don't punish each other in a normal relationship.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 15/07/2013 17:43

Sounds seriously fucked up to me, no-one should be punishing anyone.

MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps · 15/07/2013 17:44

If that isn't abusive... wtf is? Confused

Schlock · 15/07/2013 17:44

Sounds more like an S&M relationship. Except I'm a bit concerned for the person with the low self esteem.

I don't think any adult should expect to be punished by their partner unless they enjoy it.

LisaMed · 15/07/2013 17:45

Fifty shades of grey made a lot of money. Is this research?

SlimePrincess · 15/07/2013 17:54

Well it's definately a very unhealthy dynamic for a relationship. What do these punishments consist of?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 15/07/2013 17:58

It doesn't sound like a supportive relationship rather a toxic one.

scallopsrgreat · 15/07/2013 18:07

Perhaps consider why you think you need punishing? Is it actually you that thinks that?

And then consider why someone who is supposed to love and cherish you is prepared to do things to you that upset and scare you (despite not wanting to Hmm)?

Original poster
icycoldfruit · 15/07/2013 18:38

Yes, I think I do think that, though I am not sure why. They were prepared to do it because they care but they didn't enjoy doing it.
Just stuff like having to do what they said, but I don't want to say what I had to do.

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 15/07/2013 18:54

If someone you love has low self esteem then surely you don't engage in an activity that re-inforces that low self esteem but rather look to find ways of helping that person think more highly of themselves.

scallopsrgreat · 16/07/2013 22:13

No he didn't go along with it because he cared. If he cared he wouldn't make you do something that upset and scared you. Sorry. He just wouldn't. Imagine you going along with making your children upset and scared. Would you do that?

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 16/07/2013 22:44

I think it is impossible to have a healthy relationship if you don't have a certain amount of respect for yourself and self-esteem.

What you describe sounds very sad.

I think you should consider a long separation while you work out if you can love yourself. Only when you have worked out what you value about yourself and your self-esteem is higher will you be able to turn your attention to your relationship and see it clearly.

SisterMatic · 16/07/2013 22:54

I feel very sad for you OP.

You dont need punishing. You are not an animal, you are a human that deserves love and respect. I am worries about what he is making you do.

whitesugar · 16/07/2013 22:55

Could you perhaps see a good counsellor on your own to try and work out why you are doing this? You sound tormented about it and maybe being able to talk to someone about it will help to free you from doing it.

losingmyself48 · 16/07/2013 23:19

So, was the situation that you asked for punishment, he said he didn't want to do it - you then persuaded him to - he did some stuff you didn't like but then he seemed to actually enjoy it so you have continued to go along with it because you asked him to do it in the first place?

I'd say that you have uncovered a little S&M fetish thing there with your OH that he might not have known he had but with you asking him to punish you - you've unleashed the beast. He might have no idea that you don't like what he's doing. He is just doing as you asked after all.

Were you punished violently as a child or something and that's the only thing that can make you feel better about the things you've done wrong - what could you have done wrong anyway that warrants punishment?

Like others have said - it all sounds a bit on the strange side. If you don't like it - say so and EXPECT that he stops.

Smilehappy · 16/07/2013 23:56

This thread seriously has scared me, am so worried for you. Please leave this is not healthy...

Do you want to disclose what has happened?

My thoughts are with you...Envy

Snazzyenjoyingsummer · 17/07/2013 00:00

"their husband agrees to punish them and does things that the person dislikes and finds upsetting and scary"

This shouldn't be happening.

" What if the person persuades their husband to do it when he says he doesn't want to?"

Did the person have a gun to their husband's head? My guess is no. Whatever persuasion went on, he still chose to do this. Not good.

"What if the husband finds that he enjoys it and so the woman goes along with it because it means she is being punished for what she has done wrong?"

I think he needs to stop doing things he enjoys that hurt other people, and find things to do that he enjoys that don't hurt other people. And I think the woman here needs to take a big step back from this relationship, which might include moving out to reflect on it all - and she definitely needs to see a counsellor about her low self-esteem. HTH.

Original poster
icycoldfruit · 17/07/2013 06:33

losing I continued to go along with it because I had no choice.
smiling I got out of the relationship because he left due to me not being good enough.
Now I am dealing with the aftermath.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 17/07/2013 07:20

Are you getting psychiatric help OP? I agree with others on the thread that the problem to address is what sounds like a combination of depression, anxiety and self-hatred. There is a condition called Masochistic Personality Disorder which goes way beyond low self-esteem and is a form of self-harming. A loving husband would have not gone along with it, let alone exploited it, but instead would have assisted you in getting the correct help.

Original poster
icycoldfruit · 17/07/2013 13:27

No Cogito, I'm not. I've never had depression or anxiety, nor self-hatred. Just guilt because of something that I did. I am fine, mostly, just relieved to be out of the relationship but want to get to grips with what it really was and who was responsible and then move on from it.

OP posts:
Twinklestein · 17/07/2013 13:32

'Really low self esteem' and feeling the 'need to be punished' may be aspects of depression.

Do you want to tell us what you did that you think requires punishment, given that you have a pseudonym, it would help with advice?

Your partner didn't leave you because you weren't good enough fruit, and it's just as well he did.

foolonthehill · 17/07/2013 13:46

I want to get to grips with what it really was and who was responsible and then move on from it.

In society crime deserves measured, proportionate punishment as a deterrent and as reinforcement of rules and order.

In a family children's misbehaviour deserves firm boundary settings and reasonable consequences for bad behaviour/rule breaking. This should be proportionate and for the development and good of the child as well as the family as a whole.

In an adult relationship "rule breaking" should lead to apology, restitution if possible and dealing with consequences. In no way is it right or necessary for "punishment" to occur. There may be a consequence of the action (eg relationship breakdown, loss of trust, etc) but NOT and Never punishment...only forgiveness or non-forgiveness.

Having got out of this damaging relationship I hope you can sort out in your head why it was necessary for you to be punished in any way...does it come from your past? Did it come from your partner's refusal to forgive and to move on? Was it a last ditch resort on your part to be able to repair your damaged and damaging relationship with him (ie if he punishes me he will have to forgive me and we can go on and put it behind us).

His response to the "punishment" as a pleasurable activity is not your problem...it is for him to deal with and you are not responsible for him, for his feelings.

Just make sure you have a healthy view of yourself, can acknowledge that people make mistakes and mess up, you are no exception. No-one deserves to be judged by that thing alone...just learn and grow from it, and know how to forgive yourself.

Original poster
icycoldfruit · 17/07/2013 13:46

OK. Deep breath. I was a failure as a child and was never good enough, I was told this and was told that I'd end up living on a sink council estate with all the other failures. I got pregnant when I was at school, before my GCSEs, my parents insisted on an abortion which I went along with, and then ended up living on said sink council estate. Despite that I made a go of things and ended up getting away from where I was living but the stuff from when I was a child stuck with me - and still does to a certain extent - and the stuff in my last relationship which all came from one conversation compounded it.

OP posts:
foolonthehill · 17/07/2013 13:56

That was brave Icy.....

Now you can see where the script came from...but you are not and never were only that.

From your posts alone we can see...

  1. You are an articulate, expressive person
  2. You are curious and caring about the way that people interact with one another
  3. You know that norms in some relationships may really be abnormal
  4. You can see the links between what your parents did/said and where you ended up in your relationship 5)You are a motivated and energetic person who can take decisions to make life better for yourself.

Your future: You can continue to prove your parents wrong and build a life in a place of your choosing using your talents and intelligence to benefit yourself and others. You can show that one mistake (or many many more) does not have to blight a life, neither does the script you were given have to be followed. These things too can be turned into strengths as we grow the most when we challenge ourselves, even/especially when we fail.

Only take responsibility for the things that you think/do/speak...leave others to take responsibility for themselves.

foolonthehill · 17/07/2013 13:57

and I admire you for looking this stuff firmly in the face

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