Upset email to DH - is it ok?

[twosmallbuttons]

After a ridiculous argument over nothing this morning, I'm getting sick of the way DH speaks to me. I've often wondered if he is an EA, I see similar traits in him to my dad and the way he used to treat my mum before she finally stuck up for herself.

Without giving a long boring history, please can you read my email to DH and let me know if it's ok. No doubt he will turn some of the issues around to be my fault anyway

Hi

I want to tell you how upset and disappointed I feel about what happened this morning.

When you shout and get angry and wave your arms around, it makes me feel threatened. When you get angry about me not speaking loudly enough or hearing properly, it makes me feel like you blame me for my hearing problems. When you suddenly backtrack and decide to cycle to work instead of what we'd just agreed, it makes me feel like you're doing it just to spite me (passive aggressive).

I do not want to be treated like this. Especially when I'm supposed to be returning to work with you. Please ask yourself, would you speak to Colleague A or Colleague B in this way? Why do you think it's an acceptable way to speak to your wife and work partner?
It leaves me feeling sad and wary of the future of our relationship, that you seem unable to control your temper over such a small matter.

If I am to return to work in September, I want to be secure in the knowledge that I will be treated with respect and understanding.

Is it too critical or accusatory?

I just want to voice a slightly different view.
I often email DH if we've had a row, because I am unable to articulate myself well in an emotional fraught atmosphere. I tend to go a bit blubby and wobbly, which undermines my point.
So email isn't always the worst way to communicate, it can be very useful for gathering your thoughts and putting across salient points.

Twosmallbuttons - I have had a very similar experience. My DH works hard, gets stressed, gets shouty and I find it difficult to stand up to him.

Your DH may be EA or he may be really bad at handling / managing stress.

My situation has improved (although I have a thread in relationships too so there's still a way to go). Some of the things that have happened to me would have provoked a LTB reaction from Mumsnet (no physical violence, but some throwing things around) but we stuck at it. We love each other and have the potential for a great relationship but we have to work at it.

Someone recommended a book on non-violent communication to me and I'm working my way through it. One thing that struck me about your email is that you are not expressing your feelings. By saying 'I feel threatened' you are implying that he is threatening you, which is a criticism and an inference. He may actually be threatening you, but he can argue that he's not. If you say 'frightened' or 'scared', he can't dismiss that, because it's how you feel.

Good luck x

YOu need to make it very clear that either he demonstrates he is going to change or you leave. it really is that stark.

This means he needs to enrol in anger management/abuse counselling, he needs to show you and tell you he understands how much it hurts you, he needs to show he is very sorry. it needs to be demonstrable and clear that he is wanting to fix things and take responsibility.

it can be done - but only if he is very willing. He will backslide - but you need to hold firm to your own boundaries, reminding him of his responsibilities and the consequences. If he is serious and committed it really can work - if not, you have no other choice but to leave.

Feeling frightened in your own home because of the person you love is not a way to live. it destroys everything - your confidence, your ability to see reality and your children too (as you have found out).

it is time for an ultimatum.

Also - you need to be truly willing to leave. As said earlier, you should have all your ducks in a row. Show him it is up to him because you are ready to walk away. Don't give any hint that this is something you would think twice about.

So what are you saying Themenights, that she should say "you wave your arms around and shout at me".

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents; look at all the damaging crap that you were yourself taught as a child. It is not altogether surprising therefore that you've ended up with someone like your Dad. Yes your mum did stick up for herself eventually but that was many years later, the damage to you had already been done. It can be undone but you're going to have to do a lot of work on yourself to unlearn all this.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. Be honest with yourself here.

I would argue that your H is indeed emotionally abusive; the power and control balance here is firmly in his favour.

Joint counselling is NEVER recommended where there is ongoing abuse; I think too he acts like this because he can and he knows that (currently) you're not going anywhere because you have stayed to date.
It is also not your fault that he overeats; this man has a myriad of issues that he is quite happy for you to take the blame for. It absolves him then of taking any real responsibility for his actions. He would never agree to him having any counselling anyway, such men do not think they are doing anything wrong in the first place.

AM won't also be of any benefit to him because he likely only uses you as an emotional punchbag. Its not about anger because he can control this. He likely does not act like this towards his work colleagues or people outside the family home.

What do you want to be teaching your children about relationships here, surely not this poor role model of one?. Honestly, you'd be better off apart.

You probably wish too that your mother had left her H years earlier as well.

Zyn, I'm very new to the whole NVC stuff so won't pretend to be a guru, but some of it made sense to me.

Yes, saying 'you waved your arms around and shouted at me' is an observation.

Saying 'when you waved your arms around and shouted, I felt threatened' mixes observation, feelings and interpretation/intent.

Saying 'when you waved your arms around and shouted, I felt frightened' is apparently more truthful/effective.

If you google non-violent communication you'll find the book - sorry, I haven't got a link at the moment.

Well we've had the talk. With the help of adrenaline I told him what Cogito said upthread: I deserve to be treated with respect. If you ever shout at me again or use my hearing problem to abuse me, our relationship is over. I said I didn't want our DC growing up being exposed to this I am fed up with all the passive aggressive shit too.

He was, obviously, shocked. I would normally not speak so bluntly. It's definitely what was needed though. He eventually apologised, didn't know his behaviour was leading our relationship down to doomsville even though we've had enough conversations about it before.

He wants to know what I suggest to help him - would anger management really not work? Do I tell him about every single bit of crap behaviour at the time he does it? I know it's not exactly my job but I do want to help him make behavioural changes. He is a good man but we've let him get away with his crap behaviour for too long.

He wants to know what I suggest to help him

oh ffs, that's HIS job! If he's taking any responsibility for changing his OWN damn behaviour, then HE has to do the legwork himself.

He's putting the responsibility onto you yet again.

Suggest that he treats you with not just the minimum level of respect but the same respect he would show his colleagues or his boss for example. You deserve more than the minimum level of respect as you are his wife and mother of his children. If he needs a diagram and asks for it to be explained as though it were all so complicated he's really throwing it back at you.

Seriously, is it complicated??

It is not actually up to you to suggest any measures that could help him. Doing so makes that your problem and also absolves him of any responsibility for his actions.

No AM would not work because he seems to be only primarily angry with you. He does not treat outsiders or work colleagues like this does he?. He would not dream of talking to them the way he demeans you. He does not know the meaning of the word "love".

I would also read up on co-dependency within a relationship and see if that rings any bells with you personally.

Why would you want to help him make any behavioural changes; he does NOT want your help and besides which you are too close to the situation to be of any real help to him anyway!. You are not responsible for his actions. This type of man hates women as well, he probably pours great scorn on his mother as well.

You need to stick to what you said to him to the letter. You have read him the riot act so you need to act decisively if, well actually when, he kicks off again. You know deep down that he will start on you again at some point and that time may not be far off. You need to now be fully aware of your legal rights and entitlements in the event of separation.

As you also met in a public place his reactions were perhaps more muted that they otherwise may have been.

I am glad you spoke your mind OP. He is on notice!

I did see what you mean ThemeNights. It sounds as if OP's DH is already adept at harping on about specifics and definitions so she gets bogged down in what she is trying to get across. She says he twists things. Let me guess: how would he describe this, shouting at someone with a hearing issue, helpful or aggressive?

Yeh Hotdamnedlifeisgood has said it better.

If he can't figure out on his own how to behave decently and how to show you the respect you deserve then you're pushing water up hill. Tell him that. Either he knows or he doesn't. PUtting the ball back in your court is invalidating what you've said. Making your simple reasonable request into something complex. It's the same as before, when he wanted you to justify defend and explain WHY you were upset, making it seem like you're raising your bar sky high and how could he possibly please you the poor longsuffering man, now he wants to invalidate what you've said by asking you to help him know what you want.

In that very first moment after you tell him you want respect from now on, he has failed to deliver. It's like you are a schizophrenia patient and he's asking for things that might trigger an episode. It's just really insulting.

What you want is decent, kind, respectful behaviour and communication.

I know it's not exactly my job but I do want to help him make behavioural changes.

You can't help him. His behaviour = his responsibility.

You will NOT be "helping" by making suggestions. Only those changes that he decides to embark on through a decision of his own have any hope of being effective. Furthermore, if you are managing the process in some way, you become responsible, and can be blamed when it all goes wrong. He is absolving himself of responsibility by asking you to manage his process of change. He is not serious about changing.

You cannot change his behaviour, any more than you can cause his outbursts. His words, his actions, are under his control only.

Leave him to it. If he doesn't clean up his act, then you know that this marriage is no longer suitable.

And don't be caught up in explaining right and wrong to him and then debating the nuances of when it's ok to shout, cos those pointless conversations will only exhaust you and keep you on the treadmill.

my x was a nightmare for taking my words and firing them back at be but having given them an entirely different meaning from the one i'd intended. I was on the defensive for years.

" Do I tell him about every single bit of crap behaviour at the time he does it? "

No. You've set him a challenge, you've provided the consequences of not meeting that challenge, and the ball is entirely in his court now. That's the beauty of being assertive. Once you've said, 'if you do it again, you're out' then everyone know the score. If he decides to pull the same stunt and he ends up on the street with a suitcase, he cannot say he wasn't warned.

At the moment, he may be shocked that you've suddenly become more assertive but I guarantee he is still not taking you seriously. He thinks once the dust has settled you'll forget all about your threat and it'll be business as usual. So this is the fork in the road moment. Stand by your guns, no more pointing out the crap behaviour... he either behaves like a decent human being or he goes be a bully elsewhere.

And btw... he doesn't need special training, counselling or any other malarkey to behave like a decent human being towards the person he is supposed to love. He just has to treat you the way he does other people he respects.

And where are my manners? BLOODY WELL DONE!!!!! Whatever happens in your life from now on, you can look back on that conversation as a defining moment. If you find yourself suddenly taking on surly shop assistants or telling people in railway carriages to get off the phone, don't be surprised. Assertiveness, once you open the flood-gates, is very liberating.

Cogito I have turned into the best person to complain about shoddy service or behaviour since I 'changed' and got all assertive.

twosmallbuttons, well done on the talk but everyone here is right, he's trying to make this all your fault/responsibility and the kicked puppy apologies won't last long either.

Either he mans up and sorts himself out, or you leave, or you're on this merry-go-round for the foreseeable future and every time to 'put up with it' - he'll push it further.

" best person to complain about shoddy service "

Kerching!!! :)

Thank you everyone for all the advice and support, I feel a weight has been lifted since I told him to shape up or ship out. And yes, it's his responsibility to make the changes, I've made excuses for him for too long.
I still feel shocked and saddened at what's happened today but I realise now how overdue it was.

Shocked and saddened set against empowered and liberated.... I don't think you're going to look at him the same way again.

FWIW, my DH was on a behaviour spiral that hit rock bottom last year when he thumped me across our bedroom (first and only time he has hit me). It grew from anger (over nothing), bullying, ignorance, jealousy, taking me for granted and went alongside a rapidly developing drinking problem (he was plastered when he did it). I left the next day and had him arrested.

He was devastated, I was relieved.

6 months later, we were going through counselling and I was shocked to learn that he genuinely hadn't realised how damaging he was being. I had sat up talking for hours about what he was doing and that he was ripping our family apart, but he just didn't believe me because he knew I would be there because I loved him like he 'loved' me. The difference was I loved him enough to leave him, he loved me so much he couldn't leave.

He has worked so hard to change since then, he's tee total, manages his stress and he's 100% supportive - so much so that I spent 10 days solo in a foreign country visiting my DSis while he took care of the children. He has lapses where he'll get angry but I just take the children and leave so he can calm down, this has happened twice. I couldn't be prouder of him, or love him more. Word of warning though - all my friends said never go back and even now, with how much he's changed, there are a few that just can't be around him. I understand that, because they care about me.

Oh and his family won't talk to me because I had him arrested, but frankly they can fuck off!

Point of the loooong story is; it is possible he just doesn't see how his behaviour is damaging the family to the extent that it is and while it is his responsibility to change, you need to show him that you're serious.

Thanks for sharing HappyDoll, you are a very courageous woman. I also don't think my DH realises the damage he's doing to me, he doesn't even realise he's doing anything wrong half the time.
He comes from a family & culture which is generally more vocal & expressive anyway, but this in no way explains his treatment towards me