What do you make of this distant DH?

[bunty05]

For several years DH and I have grown increasingly distant. We have been together for 20 years and busy raising a young family. It has been hard to feel reconnected like we used to be. Sex is happening less than every 6 weeks and I've been anxious and lonely, sensing that something is really wrong. There is no handholding, no cuddling on the sofa.

I haven't found much to talk about with him except the children and his work. It is a sore point with him that he doesn't have many friends. He works long hours and I have encouraged him to take up a hobby to relax & socialise but he declined. He is often abrupt with me or doesn't look up when I walk in the room.

So imagine my huge surprise when I recently discovered he is a very active member of an internet music forum community. Over 9 years he has posted over 9000 messages, averaging between 5 and 10 every two days. He has dozens of online acquaintances and he has even met some of these people at concerts (to which I'm never invited). They recommend radio/TV programmes to each other, commiserate on bereavements and illnesses and miss members when they stop posting. He has never ever mentioned these characters or how big a part this site plays in his life.

My problem is the lack of openness and honesty. Then there are all the times he has missed family time opportunities (bath time, trips out) because he has preferred to drink alcohol on his own while browsing this site. Many days he has visited it morning, noon and evening, including before work and at work. I feel well and truly shut out of his life and that if he had shared this interest with me I would not have become so unhappy. I am also wondering what else he isn't telling me.

Would you feel the same or am I overreacting?

Everyone needs interests and friends but when they are kept secret from partners or start to take the place of partners and family life generally, it's a very, very serious problem. If his behaviour has deteriorated (abrupt, rude. ignoring etc) & he's neglecting you by withdrawing affection then it has a lot of the hallmarks of 'an emotional affair'.... and if he meets people at concerts there's every opportunity for a physical affair.

So I would feel exactly the same and 'you need to talk'... quite urgently.

Sounds like Facebook to me. Your Dh is acting just the same as the majority of folk......posting likes and dislikes, chatting about stuff he finds interesting. Do you share his passion for music? If not then this is where he can express himself with fellow music lovers.

He sounds like my dh. He also keeps himself secret from me. It is hurtful and different to a need for privacy that everyone has. It is impossible to have a relationship with someone who is that self-contained and secretive even if the things they are doing to be themselves are innocent.

I feel totally cheated by him because I've laid myself bare body and soul even though it is hard for me because I wanted my marriage to work and thought he loved me.

Living together inevitably means I find out about just how much he is keeping from me and it is like death by 1000 cuts. The death of the relationship that is.

I've lost count of how many times I've spoken to him about this and how it is wrecking intimacy which was never great anyway (one sided). I've pretty much given up, we had a confrontation in November where I explained I couldn't carry like this and in July I'm taking the kids away for the week on my own to get some space and think about whether for me it is time to move on.

With my dh it is also tied up in a lot of selfishness, it is because he only thinks of himself unless I make him think of me.

If you're not invited to these concerts OP and you don't know about all these online friends, did you think he was just going by himself? Or did you think he was doing something completely different?

Really glad of your replies. Not sleeping well.

Cogito He goes to these concerts by himself infrequently. I don't know how much prior arrangement is made to meet these other people whom he insists are just acquaintances with whom he shares a passion for niche indie bands.

The alcohol and forum browsing/posting almost always goes on when I am out or away. I was extra worried to see that he had been to a concert while I had been away and, as far as I remember, not mentioned it as I think most people would have done.

I'm trawling through 9000 posts like a psycho on a mission. In them he reveals all kinds of opinions and aspects of his personality that I never hear or see. I've said to him, "I don't know you anymore", v strange when you have lived with someone for 16 years.

How do I handle this?

When you go on MN is it a secret, do you wait for DH to be out before you access it? Does home life suffer, do the family come second?

Does it mean that in a power cut he'd be unable to chat with you, spend time with you or the DCs?

I guess in your shoes I'd wonder if he ever even mentioned the rest of us, how he portrays himself. It is not harmful having a hobby by which to relax with but if it impacts on your lives it looks like he is massively compensating for something he is not prepared to confront.

Are you worried more about the alcohol intake or the music forum?

If your DCs are at home and he is like this, what is the plan for when they finish school and leave home to work or study, will he broaden his music world without you or will you be dealing with an empty nest together?

The alcohol is an issue (mood swings, subsequent 'upset stomach' or headache, leads to emotional unavailability) but he uses it to reward himself for working hard.

There is regular mention of the children in the posts but extremely rare mentions of me, so far not derogatory. Mostly its about the music and everyday things like recent purchases, plans for the weekend. He sometimes posts pictures of a woman with nice breasts with a lecherous comment like other members. Quite teenage-y.

We probably last talked about music on our very first date. He told me what he liked, I said it was crap in a way I thought was playful and an invitation to educate me and he's barely mentioned it again.

Then again there are so many things we don't talk about because if I disagree a row is very soon around the corner. It's scary to realise discussion is not a realistic option.

I am going to Relate on my own, he does not see the need to come with me unfortunately.

He says he is committed to me but it feels like he takes me for granted.

I've told him I am concerned that when we retire we will have nothing in common to talk about which he took exception to as a very negative comment, even though I think its true.

Donkeys I don't use MN hugely.

Interested to know if he knows you are posting on here

The whole thing makes it sound like he is 100% incompatible with family life. It's a fairly clicheed tradition that some men (and probably some women) avoid domesticity by pottering in sheds, spending days on golf-course, 'working long hours', fussing over some motorbike that doesn't need fixing... etc. I expect there are a few happily celebrating their Golden Anniversaries because they get time to themselves rather than being under each other's feet.

But that's not what's going on here. His online time doesn't cheer him up and make him a better partner. He's secretive, miserable, rude, ignores you, drinks on his own, goes out on his own... it's almost as though he resents your existence. You and the kids are 'the family' and he's created this online image of himself as this music-loving, boob-ogling, single twat guy that doesn't feel the need to engage.

Chocomama1 No he doesn't. But I don't think one afternoon of private chat on MN compares to 9 nine years of not mentioning me a single thing about his forum and the time taken to post 9000+ messages . DH says it was an inadvertent omission.

DH did say he does not cover his web browsing tracks & I could have seen that he visited this site at any time, which I think I knew. I just didn't realise he used it so habitually and that he had met some of these people IRL.

He sounds depressed.

Cogito Very perceptive. What you say makes sense, uncomfortably.

Maybe that's why he never offers me an alcoholic drink, although he says its because I once declined twice in a row. Bottles and cans disappear and I'm never offered a drop. I've started to log our stocks of booze because I think he is in denial about how much he is knocking back. Anyway he thinks he's earned it.

The children seem to feature prominently in his life but not me

Quite teenage-y.

That was what I was going to say next, OP. I realise your children may still be very young but it makes for uncomfortable thinking about the future when right now your H is effectively tuning out of ordinary family life. He is not a slacker if he holds down a job or pursues a career but rather sad if you are now feeling more like a housekeeper than a wife.

The communication in your relationship sounds absolutely dire

Does he know you are trawling through all these 9000 messages ?

Thanks all for such insightful comments.

Donkeys I think you're right.

Any He invited me to do it claiming he had nothing to hide but he doesn't know I've taken him up on his offer. I suppose I'm looking for an explanation of the moods and lack of engagement I've felt so often and on specific occasions.

It's true, communication is not good at all. I have a challenge with assertiveness and he has an issue with dominance.

That's revealing ... you make a remark in your first date about his musical tastes and it's never mentioned again. You decline alcohol twice in a row so you're never offered that again... I'm trying to work out what that kind of 'all or nothing', 'black/white' attitude indicates. Defensive? Insular/introverted? Grudge bearer? Repressed? Zero confidence?

The kind of person that takes offence at a casual remark and buries the resentment for 20 years (!), retreating into an online community rather than simply defending his choice is not good at resolving problems. Opening up to anonymous strangers whilst ignoring & being rude to the person he's supposed to be closest to ie. their life-partner, is another way of avoiding things. It would also explain why he's got an alcohol problem (which I increasingly think he does)... it's another way of blocking out reality. Someone's mentioned depression and, whilst alcohol is a well-known depressant, he just sounds like real life scares the crap out of him and the way he chooses to cope is to shut himself away, self-medicate and be an arsey git....

... you don't have to tolerate it.

When you say he has an issue with dominance do you mean he is a bully or do you mean he thinks others are trying to dominate him?

Is the site NME? If so I would be very very concerned.

Tricky to debate though when OP says it's impossible to discuss anything; unless she agrees they end up rowing. bunty05 it's not just the question of him retreating into an online community, is it?

9000 messages in 9 years is fewer than 3 per day.

You indicated fairly early on that you didn't like his taste in music, so I'm not clear how you expected to be involved. You have already expressed non interest in his hobby surely?

I'd be a bit if a partner of mine felt entitled to know all about my online behaviour as a point of principle.

How would this work in reverse? If you developed an interest in cross stitch and a posting habit on stitchbitch.com or whatever, and it were something that existentially bored him, how would you involve him?

LOL @ yoniranger...

Pointing out the bleedin' obvious here, they've been an item for 20 years and 20 years ago it was established that the OP doesn't like his taste in music.

~ 15 years ago the internet came into wide use i.e. there'd presumably been five years of innocent offline pursuit of this interest.

9 years ago goth-folk-forum appeared (or whatever) and he found his way there.

Look at the chronology for a minute, for at least 5 years there was no "internet problem" and arguably for 11 years there was none.

He's just retreated because you're not interested hasn't he?

You guys are really great.

Cogito I was laughing, I think real life and the responsibility of a family does scare the crap out of him. To clarify, he is very dominant and self-confident. When you say I don't have to tolerate it - can you please elaborate on what you mean?

Yoni No it's not NME but I'll defo have a look at it now.

Donkey It's hard to admit we are unable to discuss things. If I make a suggestion it is either a foregone conclusion according to DH and I'm being overbearing, otherwise I am just plain wrong. Not sure what else you might be alluding to but would be interested to hear.

I am not defending your husband, if you say he is emotionally unavailable I absolutely believe you

but I have must have in excess of 9000 msgs on MN

if my husband looked through them all I would divorce him

Bunty05 sorry, not trying to read anything into your H's actions beyond what you yourself have said,

I'm looking for an explanation of the moods and lack of engagement I've felt so often and on specific occasions.

The music forum is almost a red herring. You knew he was otherwise engaged, but now you have found he is Mr Personality when it comes to this hobby. Unfortunately it highlights that the two of you are drifting apart.

I don't think OP was saying she felt 'anxious and lonely' because she resents him indulging in a music forum ElizabethX, more that she is looking to reconnect and has found he engages very easily with others whereas they seem to have little in common beyond their children.