I don't want a huge blow up with H over this, so need opinions please

[Loutwenty]

I don't know where to start really. This is long, sorry, I am just so confused at the moment.

Been with dh for 2 1/2 years, married for just over 1. We got together quite fast as I was having a terrible relationship breakdown with exh, so we moved in together after only 6 months. I had been married 12 years but living separate lives for 10 of them. I have a 10 year old child from that marriage.

I don't work, but I study full time. DH works, but in a job he hates, he did a stupid uni course as a mature student at 25, graduated shortly after we moved in together and couldn't find the mystical job that he hankered after (the route he took isn't a route into them anyway iyswim). So now he has a boring, normal job and is not a rock star like he spent his early 20s thinking he'd be, this is apparently, my fault as now he has responsibilities

I was a sahm during my first marriage, my ex worked abroad during the week and we lived in rural scotland, so I kind of had to be! I married young too, so never had much work experience, aside from a bit of freelance stuff pre 20, so when I left, I was floundering.

Last sept I started college and I have totally found myself. I have studied a subject I love, so much so that I have excelled and done a couple of further courses myself and at my own expense to further my knowledge.

However, I am at a crossroads at the moment where in order to continue I can do a degree. My father and ex always told me I was thick. My father said I was so stupid that there was no point in staying at school post 16, and my ex was very successful and talked down to me always. Since studying, I know that's not true. I have passed with all distinctions, my tutors have been behind me all the way and are pushing me to skip a level and go to a degree.

Ok so two issues!

1. I study hard. Really, really hard, not only with the course I have been doing, but with the additional courses I have taken on. I have a criminal law level 3 qualification to complete over the summer, it is not easy. But yet, because I am in the house more, doing 'nothing' (!) as he says, all house work falls to me. He does not lift a finger. He will 'help' wash up a couple of times a week, but he lets me firmly know he is 'helping' me and expects full on, falling to my knees gratitude.

I make him breakfast in bed every morning, regardless of if I am leaving half an hour earlier than him to get to college, I run his bath, wash his hair. All this for an easy life or he sulks. I am not well today and stressed. So I didn't get out of bed before him as usual. He usually has to start getting dressed at 7.50, by 7.30 he was already huffing as I hadn't got up to get his breakfast and coffee. 7.40 ds comes in with his cereal - a 10 year old puts him to shame lol - so I get up, feed the cats and stupidly make his breakfast as I couldn't face a strop. He could tell I was upset, so asks why (but not in a concerned way, he gets pissed off at me when I am upset) so I tell him, just for once, I am fed up of the morning waitress service. So then he says, well, I wan't hungry anyway and throws a strop that he won't be able to drink his coffee, it will be too hot.

He has his dinner cooked and ready for when he walks through the door as well, regardless of if I am eating or not. My first husband was a shit, but he never, ever expected anyone to cook and clean up after him, so I have never experienced this before. Is this normal? I feel like a housekeeper, I hate it. I know he works, but really, to do nothing in your own home? when I talk to him, he says to tell him what needs doing and he will. But a) He is not a teenager and I am not his mother b) this is his home too, I am not the boss of cleaning and c) he gets in such a mood if I do ask him to do anything. He'll do it, but it's not worth the sulking afterwards.

When I talk to him about it, he gets angry and tells me to stop acting like I have a hard life.

2. With regard to study, I have been offered an amazing chance to do a degree I will love. But I will have to commit to three years, hard wok with pretty full on work placements. We want another child. I have had several MC, so I can't wait any longer, certainly not 3 or 4 years, I am 34. So I am looking into OU degrees as they will be more compatible.

DH isnt happy about any of this. He says he will support me, but this week keeps throwing hissy fits, about how much he hates his job, how it's not fair and I can't complain as at least I am doing something I want to do. It's not my fault that, by his own admission, he did a degree which would basically buy him 3 more years 'free' drinking time' in his mid 20's. It is also not my fault that I have turned out to be more intelligent than people thought I was.

And I know that if I do OU, I will get the 'I got to work!' card thrown at me and I will be doing all the house, studying and looking after a baby on my own.

I am confused and I don't know what to do for the best, or, if I want to stay with him at all at the moment.

Sticky,

"larrygrylls no man who made and served the OP with breakfast in bed every day, made and packed a lunch into the OP's bag, put a cooked dinner on the table every evening, and did all the housework and childcare, would be called a cocklodger on MN. I don't have any threads to point to to prove this though. I wonder why..."

Maybe true but the "childcare" is the childcare for her own son! Meanwhile he is working a min 40 hour week and paying for their home. The degree cannot be considered work, at least for now, as it has a negative financial impact on the household. In the long term it may be for the good of the family. However, that is assuming that they are still a family unit at that point.

Maybe she does too much for the equivalent man to be called a cocklodger....point taken...on the other hand, if your benchmark is equal free time, she has the majority of the free time in the household, which she is using to pursue her studies. Unless her chosen profession is exceptionally well paid, it will take a minimum of at least 6-10 years to break even compared to starting a job now, or at least pursuing a shorter course.

op well done for hashing it our with him...but why does he get to stay in the family home and you leave? be very careful how you tread here.

larry you have a very low opinion of study, what a funny way to look at things. How should it not be valued? I find the "t cannot be considered work" a ludicrous statement. How is earning a degree anything but bloody hard work??!

dba who took the jam out of your donut? I mean seriously, how can you criticise someone who is trying to better themselves through education, in a vocational field no less?! My mind boggles.

Nilby, for people like dba, threada like this only serve to make them feel superior through hoisting their judgeypants. Upthread, the OP gets slated for getting some benefits, then she gets slated for trying to better herself through gaining vocational education.

But of course, dba et al will never be able to see the irony in their 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' judginess through the enormous chips on their shoulder - the irony that they are purporting to try to help the OP (if only through making them see the 'truth') by engaging the very same lose-lose rhetoric that abusers use to put woman after woman in the situation the Op finds herself in. They just make them feel bad in the same ways that the abuser does.

Larry, as always a delight to see you spouting your cod-intelligent misogynist nonsense. The OP's OH has taken on 'her' son as his own, therefore, any childcare done for him is for their child. And her doing all the childcare and housework is equal to the work he does. In fact, I bet she does more and she doesn't get paid or any perks of employment. And I bet she doesn't enjoy it any more than he enjoys his job. Wat she does without pay or thanks allows him to work and to have the life he does have. He does not have some automatic right to a female skivvy to do all that for him. And you are presuming that she is able to study due to having swathes of free time. Most parents who study do so in the meagre amount of time they get to themselves; during kids's naps, or after they have gone to be, or rare times when family or friends might take them out, etc.

What, not wat. Apologies.

Oxford,

"Larry, as always a delight to see you spouting your cod-intelligent misogynist nonsense. The OP's OH has taken on 'her' son as his own, therefore, any childcare done for him is for their child. And her doing all the childcare and housework is equal to the work he does. In fact, I bet she does more and she doesn't get paid or any perks of employment. And I bet she doesn't enjoy it any more than he enjoys his job. Wat she does without pay or thanks allows him to work and to have the life he does have. He does not have some automatic right to a female skivvy to do all that for him. And you are presuming that she is able to study due to having swathes of free time. Most parents who study do so in the meagre amount of time they get to themselves; during kids's naps, or after they have gone to be, or rare times when family or friends might take them out, etc."

Always a delight to see you spouting your misandrist views, too (and, yes, "misandry" is a "real" word"). This one, though, has to take the biscuit. He does a job he dislikes in order that the OP can follow her dream. However, you see this as him getting "pay and perks" of employment. She would never be able to pursue her studies without him. I can just imagine you making the same argument against a woman who has taken on an eight year old stepchild, working a menial and disliked job so that her husband has the time to pursue an expensive degree which may or may not lead to a well paid job.

I guess that you do realise that most 10 year olds go to school and that University and school terms are fairly well matched? They are not at home, taking the odd nap. So, between 8:45 and 3:15 (at least, assuming you don't use breakfast and after school clubs) you are free to study plus do a little housework, shopping and cooking.

let's remember the OP isn't bitching about doing housework. She is complaining about doing ALL the housework, and cooking and her H's personal grooming also.

And Larry the H works 35 hours pw, work is a short journey away, he works glide time and he still doesn't lift a finger in the home or for himself and sulks if his DW doesn't cater to his every whim. In who's world is this ever OK? And more to the point, what kidn of person would expect another person to reasonably to all this for him? If the H was working double shift and 2 jobs it still wouldn't be OK to sulk if you P doesn't run your bath and wash your hair.

Whatever you do with your time, work, study, SAHP you need to contribute towards your life, your home, your personal hair management etc.

And that is all an aside anyway, as the H here will sulk, whine & moan if the OP doesn't run HIS bath, make HIS lunch and (probably) wipe HIS arse.

BeCool,

Yes that part is quite strange! Adults should bathe themselves. Sulking is not nice either.

They need a proper discussion. It is not the OP's god given right, though, for her husband to support her and her son while she pursues a degree. These things need to be agreed as a family, and the issues around them.

"He does a job he dislikes in order that the OP can follow her dream."
Um so not the case. He does a job he dislikes. He needs to work! His studies are over, now he works. It sounds as though this H would dislike any job he had. He doesn't work in order for the OP to follow her dream. The OP's situation isn't tied to her H working. His wage, in fact, doesn't even cover the rent.

If anything it is a little payback for the time the OP supported her H through his studies when they BOTH LIVED OFF HER SAVINGS!

I really didn't want to engage with anyone anymore who doesn't know the ins and outs of my life but seriously,

"He does a job he dislikes in order that the OP can follow her dream"

No, he does a job he dislikes because after hundreds of job applications and only being offered 3 interviews, this was the best job he could find. He would be doing a job of this sort if I was out of the picture, as all his friends who did his course are now doing similar, any good job they could find.

The point of my threat was that dh treats the house as a hotel and I feel like a housekeeper as I do literally everything. There have been threads in the past with SAHM talking about how to get their husbands to help - I am being ripped apart because I want to study and improve all our lives?

Getting more experienced and qualified in a bid to earn more in the long run (and yes, there are many jobs I can do, it's a vocational field, I am on my lunch break now on my placement, working alongside people who have the same qualifications I am working towards!) rather than making minimum wage for the next 30 years (and therefore continuing to claim some benefits) is a bit of a no brainer in my book.

nilby - he doesn't really have anyone to stay with. My college friend and I have a final presentation to prepare for monday anyway, so it makes sense if I go sand stay with her for a few days.

Not wanting to get into the ins and outs of misogyny and misandry but can't help it....

Take the studying out of the equation. OP is a SAHM and has been since her ds was born, for reasons of isolation or others. SHe doesn't want to skivvy for her dh anymore, he is not a helpless infant. He did a degree which got him nowhere, and he actually wants to be a rock star. This is not OPs fault, tho he thinks it is, somehow... He is in a job he dislikes, because he is not a rockstar, but it pays the rent. OPs benefits pay the rest of the bills.

Now would you say LTB?

Captain,

"Take the studying out of the equation."

Yep, and if my aunt had bollocks, she'd be my uncle...

No not really, larry. It's the fact that she is studying that gets you. The fact that she is using her dh to fund her studying.

If she wasn't studying, jsut running the home like a SAHM does, you wouldn't be able to use that fact against her.

so the OP studies full time, is a parent and does everything in the house inc cooking all meals and all the cleaning.

It does sound as though these studies are enjoyed very much by the OP, they have given her a sense of self-worth she was lacking though out her life (how to put a price on that????), and she will eventually end up with a well paid job that will benefit the entire family. She now feels like an intelligent worthwhile person after being told all her life by family and EX that she was worthless and thick and stupid. She is engaging with her life, and trying to better herself, her qualifications and her job prospects.

Her H works 35h a week and can't wash his own hair without getting upset. When he rarely washes up, he lets the OP know he is "helping her out".

"So, between 8:45 and 3:15 (at least, assuming you don't use breakfast and after school clubs) you are free to study plus do a little housework, shopping and cooking."
Last time I attended University, attending lectures and tutorials, going to the library, writing essays etc - you know all the actual LEARNING stuff - was at least the equivalent of a FT job. Certainly not something you squeezed in between mopping the floor and scrubbing your lazy H's back.

Lou I'm so pleased (and a bit surprised actually) that you've put your foot down.

I hope you both get something from your time apart.

Well done, stick your guns

As far as I can see you left an abusive relationship and hooked up with a younger man who has been supporting you and your son ever since.

At 25 without a non-working partner plus child to look after he could have taken bigger risks and had a much more fun life.

I think he has always been a meal ticket for you.

He sounds like a dick, but presumably the deal was that he looked after you and your son financially in return for being looked after by you.

If you had been a single parent there is no way you would have been doing all of those courses.

He has made your recent self-discovery possible with his hard work in a job he hates, and yet you despise him for it.

Here is how you can "win": stand on your own two feet - leave him and live independently.

How has he been a meal ticket when it was me supporting him on my savings at first while looking for any job I could get?

He's not the only reason I can study - most of the mature students on my course are single parents and most are off to uni in October.

And I started the course I am just finishing now a week before he got his job - he's only been working since last September.

A thing do you really think his behaviour is reasonable? Really?

Well if you'd be better off without him, just leave.

It sounds like he'd be better off too.

Seriously at some of the responses on this thread

Look, nobody is saying that DH's lack of housework is acceptable. It really isn't much trouble or effort to tidy a bit and bung some washing in the machine and then take it out and put it in the dryer. Cooking a meal now and again isn't a chore either. Being able to wash your own hair and wipe your bottom is also pretty basic stuff too.

I think that education is a wonderful thing, I really do. I've even had a bit of education done to me in the past. I went to uni and also later paid my way through evening classes to retrain.

My beef is with the contempt the OP seems to hold not just her DH but her ex-DH and Father in. She has described their jobs as lowly, her DH's own efforts at education a waste (cop out to say even he thinks so - probably says that due to being told that by you). Despite the contempt you hold him in, you expect him to financially support you through your chosen hobby/study despite never having earned a living yourself. Leaving aside the hair washing and general laziness it is you that is the 'entitled' one.

You are both better off without each other.

After yet another failed relationship or two perhaps you will start to reflect on your own actions and issues.

Loutwenty, I can't see how a grown man who's demanded you wash his hair is suddenly going to grow up and become an equal partner in this relationship. No-one with self-respect would have done this in the first place. I understand why you feel you need to give him this chance, having appeared to condone the status quo for years, but this is seriously fucked-up.

I don't think either of them are behaving reasonably or kindly to the other.

I think moving in with a young man just finishing college with his whole life ahead of him, after only six months, when you have a 9 year old child, is not at all fair on him.

Of course he feels resentful of the responsibilities he's been lumbered with.

The only wage earner in a household with a child?!

Fuck, that's the last thing I would have wanted at 25, particularly if the partner and child I was expected to support were basically strangers to me.

And if he was an independent kind of young man, well able to look after himself, there is no way he would have agreed to this set up in the first place.