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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Would being told to "shut up dog" by your h be a dealbreaker for you?

63 replies

feelokaboutit · 24/06/2013 07:36

This is the context - sorry rather long:

The way it happened was that we were at the swimming pool. As usual I had packed the two swimming bags - one for me, dd1 and dd2 and the other for h and ds. Except that I had changed h and ds's bag and so it only had trunks and towels in it and I had forgotten to transfer over the goggles. Ds had mentioned this on the way in to the pool and I said I had forgotten but h hadn't heard.

The girls and I went in to the ladies changing room and got changed. By the time we got to the pool, h and ds were already there and h was asking where the goggles were and was obviously annoyed. I said that I had forgotten and he said I should always have them in there or something to that effect blah blah - all cross and sanctimoniously. So my blood is beginning to boil and I said that every week I do have the bags ready and he said something to the effect of - well you should have had the goggles today... I was also saying that he could pack his bag himself and that he too made mistakes (I think I was saying that - it has kind of got lost in the fog).

Anyway, I had one pair of goggles out of the 5 that we usually have and it happened to be mine. So I gave him these (he's all angry and sanctimonious) and said he had to give them back to me when he'd finished. He took them gracelessly out of my hand and said "you'll be lucky". At this point I was really annoyed so I said (to his back as he was going to the pool) that he should remember that he wasn't perfect either - I might have been shouting a little as I was really really annoyed. That's when he said "shut up" and then, as I was walking away "dog". dd2 (7) did not hear him say dog but dd1 (9) did and later referred to it in the changing room and said "Daddy hates you". Not said in a gloating way, but more trying to understand why he would say something like that. Kind of giggling but not in a nasty way.

So h, ds and dd1 went to the big pool and I went to the baby one with dd2. When we had all got changed afterwards, they went to a cafe to have lunch (where we normally go altogether) and I went home, having explained to the girls why. H and I haven't said a word to each other since and this is not unusual.

Every couple of months we will have a massive disagreement like this (or rather, he will say something which I find so upsetting or talk to me in a way which I find so upsetting that I decide that I absolutely have to leave him), and it will take us weeks of silence to get over it. Not that we ever really get over it because nothing is ever discussed. He has a short temper, is critical, somewhat intolerant and autocratic and very defensive. He does also have a nicer side - and showers the kids with affection (and I am feeling very down on him today!), but to be honest, we probably get on properly for 2 or 3 days roughly every 6 weeks (don't know how I know this so exactly!). The rest of the time we either co-exist not having arguments particularly but living very separate lives (though communicating about stuff to do with the kids). Then there are the times like this when I am actively furious (or sometimes he is) and we basically behave as if the other one isn't there. The first 2 or 3 times this happened, I thought it was all him (the longest silence was about 8 weeks long) - and it probably was more him as after 2 or 3 days I would snap out of things and attempt to talk, only to be met with monosyllabic answers. We went to counselling together last year for 5 or 6 sessions (he gave up after one session where it all got a bit heated and he couldn't handle it), and during one of those sessions he said that it wasn't that he "wasn't talking to me" but that he "had nothing to say". Now however, I am much more used to the lack of communication between us and talk very little as well - which is kind of sad!

I think the kids know that we don't get on all that well, but are used to their own reality. Some of the stress I feel, they probably don't realise. They get on with both of us but, in some ways, separately. We do go and do things as a family at weekends (though not always) and some of those weekends are okay. In general though I find that h and I get on worse on Saturday and Sunday. He is very annoyed with me for being untidy and having quite a lot of clutter. I constantly feel that he may be about to complain about something, which means I am never completely relaxed - and don't get down to doing some of the stuff I should be doing.

A few weeks ago, I was at a point when I was very seriously considering the fact that we may have to split up, except that I got so close to it in my head that I really scared myself. The prospect of being away from the kids half the time is truly truly awful. So I reined in my thoughts and decided to be happy about all the things that I have. Things like what happened today throw it all back into question however, and I kind of know that of course we have to separate. (Except that after about 3 days I lose that feeling of intense anger, but isn't that then worse, that I accept the fact that someone has called me a "dog"). I had been thinking (before today's argument) - well - in roughly 11 years time dd2 will probably have left home, so I definitely have to plan to leave then - except that how does that work for in the meantime? Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy a lot of things about my life, and undoubtedly I have contributed to the deterioration of my "relationship". In order to avoid feeling pissed off by him I have really really distanced myself. Also to avoid his criticism as much as possible. I feel sad for the children that they don't have a model of an affectionate relationship to learn from, but have recently been so busy that I am not thinking about it.

I don't know. I think we are just not suited to each other. H is divorced already and in some ways can take me or leave me. He is 12 years older than me (so he is 56) and somehow is never going to see us as equals. He didn't have a totally easy childhood. His family came to this country from India when he was 10. They went to live in XX and had to endure people spitting at them and throwing stones at them in the street. I think this really marked him. His Dad (who died not long before I met h) also became an alcoholic, and when he was 15, left the family home.

If it wasn't for the fact that we have children together, I don't think we would still be together. I do think some relationships end naturally and ours feels like it ended a long time ago! There must be loads of couples in that situation however.

Obviously this is my side of the story, and I have presented a very negative picture of h - not fair really (this is one of the things he was cross about in counselling - that I had spoken about him in this way to other people - one of my arguments was "well, what was I supposed to have done during the 6 or 8 weeks that you weren't speaking to me"). In some ways he is very much a loner and does not need huge amounts of communication and chat - I am kind of the opposite however. When I think of some couples, I get quite envious - those that are easily affectionate with each other. Enough to make you cry when you think that today I was called "dog". H is quick to lash if he feels attacked and will do this about anybody, but this is no consolation!

Anyway, my basic question is - is being called a "dog" by your h a dealbreaker?

Thank you for reading this far!

OP posts:
slipperySlip000 · 24/06/2013 08:43

kalidanger I see my h expends a great deal of effort on 'supressing his anger' trying to be pleasant. It is not only me that sees this, friends see it too. I do believe that because of this and the fact that he is happy to pick kids up from clubs etc and walk the dig with them, that this effort is considerable and sufficient. Trouble is the anger and frustration is ever present and I am not relaxed around him. So for my h this separation is totally unexpected.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 24/06/2013 08:53

I stopped reading your post at "dog".

Yes, leave him.

HoneyandRum · 24/06/2013 08:56

Sorry, skim read and missed that you have tried counseling. You're 44, I'd leave while you are still young enough to create a new life for the next 30-40+ years because surely you don"t want to be retired with him. It would be hell.

carolthesecretary · 24/06/2013 09:03

So YOU pack HIS swimming bag and YOU forget his goggles and he calls you a dog?

Yes, you have permissions to leave. He sounds like a cunt of the highest order.

qme · 24/06/2013 09:03

I wonder what frustrates your DH feelokaboutit

I wonder if he bothered to share that information with you you'd soon to find out that he feels trapped and needs his space/freedom...

As you are still young - get those opinions out of him and be prepared that you shall be blamed for all his unhappiness :(

ladylambkin · 24/06/2013 09:04

It doesn't seem a healthy, loving relationship. I can empathise with lots in your post. It came as a shock to me to discover that this isn't the norm.... you know you deserve better but only you can make that decision

JacqueslePeacock · 24/06/2013 09:11

I also think you should be making plans to leave. I'm sorry.

On a side note, could you ask MNHQ to edit your post? You have put a name and a place in, and it might make you/him very identifiable. Just a thought.

tobiasfunke · 24/06/2013 09:15

DH and I bicker- he is a blamer and I get defensive. I can imagine the scenario in the swimming pool between us but he would never ever call me a dog. When we fight and I go in a huff and think I'll leave him it lasts all of an hour before we sort it out. I can't imagine how stressful it is to go days on end without communicating. I don't understand how you or your kids can live like that.
The fact he wouldn't attend more than one session of counselling would've been the deal breaker for me. He just doesn't give a shit whether you are happy or not. You need to go and make a happier life for your kids between you both.

RoooneyMara · 24/06/2013 09:22

The trouble is I think the OP fears that he will make her life hell if she leaves him - he'll fight to take the children away from her half the time, and so on.

I can understand her wanting to stay under these circumstances. It s not an easy decision by any means, and the arguing will almost certainly get worse at least for a while.

He sounds like a bully. You have to weigh up bringing the children up with this man treating their mother like shit, with bringing them up spending some of their time alone with him...I don't know what I'd do.

ThreeTomatoes · 24/06/2013 09:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mollydoggerson · 24/06/2013 09:28

Being called 'dog' would be a deal breaker for me.

When you stop and analyse it, it has so many connotations, all horrible, toxic, abusive and negative.

It is not OK that your daughter heard that, and that in order to make both Daddy and mummy lovable, she had to formulate a response by laughing at it. Isn't it funny how daddy hates mummy, but they are both lovely but one actively hates the other. It's ok that mummy tolerates this hate because that's what mums do to keep families together.

It's not good for any of your children to think that such a level of toxicity is somthing to be coped with, to be laughed off, to be tolerated by the woman.

No I'm sorry if I could afford to get out, I would.

LaSingeEstSurLaBranche · 24/06/2013 09:32

OP, this is emotional abuse. It sounds very similar to my marriage. I left 9mths ago. Come over to the EA thread and you'll have lots of support there.

bringmeroses · 24/06/2013 09:40

You should explore all the options for leaving. As to seeing the kids half the time, if he cant even pack a swim bag he will probably not be able to cope with them more than once every other weekend. Your kids need to see you being happy, they deserve their Mum to be cheerful for their sake as well as yours. Your husband sounds rather damaged by his life experiences, not his fault perhaps but you are also paying the price, and now your children are too. It's hard to see the two people you love and idolize most in the world being cruel to each other.
If you can imagine going forward a year to living without him, think how much more free and light hearted you will feel. Does he have any relatives that would support him through a separation? I wouldn't be too hung up on one name calling incident but your whole situation sounds a sad way to live for another 11 years. The alternative to leaving is to try to bridge that distance between you which you say you're aware of perhaps having helped create. But if you don't love him any more, I'd plan to make a big change and leave him.

BlueSkySunnyDay · 24/06/2013 09:49

I think in isolation and if he were willing to continue with counselling then eventually I may be able to get over him calling me "dog" in public in the heat of the moment. But that would be totally dependant upon the counselling working.

I think long term, if he is not willing to work at it then this situation is very damaging for your children - this will become how they think a relationship works. Do you want them to live their lives in relationships like this?

I am prepared for you to totally ignore that point and carry on as usual, I have offered exactly the same advice to a friend and a decade in she is still in a relationship and now has massive problems with her children.

Try talking to the women on the EA thread and give it some serious thought - I appreciate being a single parent makes life initially harder but long term, both for you and the children, you should be able to get to a point where you are all happier with your life as a whole.

AnyFucker · 24/06/2013 09:56

I would not tolerate that, nor would I tolerate the rest of your awful, awful relationship

No man is worth swallowing your self respect for, nor colluding to show children the worst kind of examples of sexism and misogyny

Your husband does hate you, and he hates women

Get away from him

flowery · 24/06/2013 10:00

I only read the swimming pool incident, and yes absolutely a dealbreaker for me.

blackbirdatglanmore · 24/06/2013 10:06

I am so sorry, OP. I really feel for you. No useful advice I'm afraid x

Lweji · 24/06/2013 10:11

this is one of the things he was cross about in counselling - that I had spoken about him in this way to other people
Well, that is typical of abusers.

He is annoyed by you at weekends. Does he even contribute to make the house tidier? Or just to make it untidier?

In any case, your marriage sounds like a waste of your time.

PeppermintPasty · 24/06/2013 10:12

You see, I am shocked at him calling you a dog. That is quite disgusting disrespect. And he compounds it by saying it in front of one of your children? Horrible man.

noddyholder · 24/06/2013 10:12

yes

AnyFucker · 24/06/2013 10:15

If you are having joint counselling with a man like this, that is a huge mistake.

Pantone363 · 24/06/2013 10:16

Leave. As a child who grew up in a house that swung wildly between violent screaming rows and thick ongoing silence, leave.

Sometimes the silence was worse. It just went on and on.

iwantanafternoonnap · 24/06/2013 10:21

Leave as I have been totally screwed up by my parents crappy marriage and have a very warped, mistrusting view of relationships which even extends to friendships.

Do you want your daughters to have a relationship like yours?? Then get out because if you stay they will more than likely fall for men like their dad and have similar relationship as you and him have because that is what they know and what is comfortable to them.

Do you want your son growing up like his arsehole of a father?? No then get out now!

You deserve better and your children deserve better.

musickeepsmesane · 24/06/2013 10:23

'in some ways he can take you or leave you' that is really sad OP. Leave.

The fact is if my DH called me a dog, I would be posting his balls to him from my new home.

onefewernow · 24/06/2013 10:28

Me too. I see that you have posted quite a bit about relationship problems elsewhere.

It isn't working out, is it?

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