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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Money guilt

41 replies

clarinot · 14/06/2013 21:37

Hi MN,

I saw a thread on AIBU with quite a similar situation. I started typing but then I thought it was too much for AIBU, and is clearly upsetting me more than I thought. I'm an occasional poster/regular lurker with a namechange. I have a bit of resentment bubbling inside of me so am looking for some wisdom. I've just read through my message and it's incredibly long and garbled, so I'm not expecting many people to read it! I will post it anyway. Cheap therapy.

I grew up in a very poor family and rarely had nice clothes, expensive things, holidays etc. My mum was a single parent (apart from a 6 year marriage to an absolute cunt, when things were no better financially), she has always been on a low wage, but pretty much always worked. I don't ever remember a time when we were comfortably off, there was always financial stress. She always found money (or debt) to buy my brother designer clothes or the latest computer console Even when I was still at primary school I could see she was spending a lot of money that she didn't have and wondered why the hell she did it, and worried about it. But I didn't ever get the same sort of treats. I remember once begging for a bag for school, I never got particularly fancy birthday presents... It sounds so petty now but it was really hurtful when I was little!

I remember one winter when I was doing my A levels and she and my stepdad went apeshit because I took 20 quid that I mistakenly thought they had left for me to buy some jumpers, I didn't have any and it was freezing. But the money wasn't for me, I didn't spend it as it happened as I couldn't find anything, so gave it back straight away, but the whole episode made me feel so guilty and ashamed and hate myself, and even now it makes me feel awful.

I desperately tried to find a job as soon as it was legal but had no luck at all. I took a year out before uni and my mum screamed at me several times for being at home and not getting a job, but it wasn't for lack of trying. My family sorted out jobs for my brothers by contacting people they know, or sorting them out with junior roles where they worked, but they didn't do this for me, even though I asked repeatedly.

When I was at uni I was really careful with money, it was my first time living away from home and I knew I didn't have a rich family to bail me out, so I was careful. Had a great time, but lived within a strict budget. One time, near the end of my second year, my mum called me up to say she hadn't been paid so she couldn't pay the mortgage. Having coped without one to that point, I ended up arranging a student overdraft of £1200 to bail her out - my elderly grandparents lived in the house too and I couldn't bear the thought of what might happen, so I felt it was my duty. However, my mum made no attempt to pursue the money her employer owed her, and once she got back on her feet she made no attempt to pay me back as she agreed. That summer I worked hundreds of hours in a kitchen to clear the overdraft and try to get in some sort of decent financial shape before my next year of study, I couldn't afford an outfit for my graduation so had to borrow old tatty clothes and shoes that didn't even fit me... she watched me do all this and didn't attempt to pay a penny back. I moved back home with a maxed out overdraft and started searching for a job. I found out mum spent a £100 on a piece of garden furniture which would be used maximum once per year. I blew my top and had a massive row with her and my brother, which ended up with them saying to me "You think you are so perfect"! Just because I am not shit with money.

So, although I try not to be materialistic as a grown up, these silly thing happening to me as a child and young adult made me feel both unloved and taken advantage of. It made me totally paranoid and desperate to save and be financially independent as an adult. I was a bit anal about it when I first graduated (cleared my £1800 ovedraft by Christmas on my £6 an hour wage eating nothing but cheese sandwiches), but I have relaxed a bit. I run a car, spend a fair bit on a hobby, buy clothes now and again and occasionally go on holiday. I feel like I got to where I am off my own back. I took myself off to uni when no one in my family had gone before, I worked in the shittiest admin roles once I graduated and cleared my overdrafts, then I gradually got slightly better jobs and ended up in my current one, which I really like and pays reasonably well. I am putting money in a pension, and try to save a good chunk of my salary every month.

So, I enjoy myself and have the occasional treat, but I live within my means. All my clothes are from New Look, all my makeup from Superdrug, my holidays are nothing extravagant and maximum once a year, I don't smoke or drink or go out lots, I get my hair cut less than once a year. I am still saving to buy a house and have about 10% of a deposit, so still have a long way to go. I am 30 and scared to even entertain the idea of having children because I don't think I can afford it and no way do I want a child of mine to go through financial strain like I did.

My family knows I have money put away, and is constantly asking for handouts.

A few years ago a relative asked me to lend her a grand (!), I said no, partly because I didn't have that cash apart from in my ISA, which I never touch on principle - once you start spending it you don't stop. So she said "Can't you just take it out of your savings?" I felt so on the spot that I got an overdraft (albeit interest free) to bail her out. Obviously she didn't pay me back in a month as promised, ended up paying in paltry instalments and cleared the debt five years later. And then yesterday she asked me for another fifty quid! I honestly don't know where her money goes, she has no car, no kids, no costs apart from a small mortgage, bills and food (not even transport), she earns a decent wage.... I honestly don't know where her money goes.

My mum also continues to be irresponsible. We live together. She got some building work done without having the money to pay it, so just didn't pay. My grandmother sadly passed away and my mum just didn't pay the funeral bill, not even a bit at a time. I ended up paying both these bills on interest free credit cards and paying them off gradually myself. She too asked me for fifty quid yesterday (I wonder if she was collaborating with the other relative!). I don't mind paying my way - we live together, I pay her some rent money, I do the food shopping a couple of times a month, I have done some decorating and paid for renovations, I'm the only driver so cover petrol, do the food shop run etc, occasionally pay some bills... I wondered if I should pay more but I know she is only paying interest only on the mortgage and won't pay any more if I gave her more, and I resent giving her money to fritter away on god knows what. Especially when growing up I had quite a shit time of it, I'm still not over it.

I could move out but she wouldn't want me to, partly because she doesn't want to lose my financial contribution (we get on well most of the time and don't mind living together!). I can't afford my own place and I'd rather help my mum out than rent.

Gah I don't even know what my question is. Or if I even have a question! I think it's just my head exploding on a Friday night when I am home alone because I feel guilty going out when I've had £500 of car bills this month so I can only save about £300, yet other people are out on the town seemingly subsidised by me. What a mug.

OP posts:
clarinot · 14/06/2013 21:37

Argh jeepers that is even longer than I thought. Sorry.

OP posts:
Walkacrossthesand · 14/06/2013 22:16

You have done really well to get where you are without any help, but you really don't need to feel obliged to bail out your family - they have shown time and again that they can't manage their money, so can you square your shoulders and resolve not to bail them out again? It's so unfair...

Walkacrossthesand · 14/06/2013 22:19

PS my pet peeve is people who sponge shamelessly (your relatives who let you pay off their debts) while making out that the people they sponge off are materialistic - gah!

carlywurly · 14/06/2013 22:20

I think the real issue is with your family. Is there any way you could share with a friend or housemate instead? It sounds a bit dysfunctional and stifling for you.

carlywurly · 14/06/2013 22:21

Your mum doesn't have to be responsible while you're there bailing her out. Hmm

Wuldric · 14/06/2013 22:23

Leave home, silly!

And relax and enjoy yourself - you sound grand and you owe yourself a life

Madamecastafiore · 14/06/2013 22:26

You're facilitating her irresponsibility. You need to stop giving out money left right and centre and look for somewhere else to live.

catballou · 14/06/2013 22:27

I think you know the answer here Clarinot. Time to set some boundaries and get your self respect back. Your mother don't look set to change and seems to have the idea that sponging off you is the way to go for the foreseeable future...did you ever confront her about her strange attitude to money with regards to you? Well even doing that won't change her or turn back time, but how about you put you foot down and start spending your hard earned money on yourself and ditch that guilt. ?

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 14/06/2013 22:27

You really need to leave home.

NettleTea · 14/06/2013 22:30

Where is your brother in all this? Have you ever calmly asked them why there was such a discrepancy in what was provided for him compared with you?

cortado · 14/06/2013 22:30

Your mother has failed as a parent to you, you owe her nothing.

Dilidali · 14/06/2013 22:32

Leave home!!!!

catballou · 14/06/2013 22:33

You don't need to be home alone-you need to get out and start enjoying your life. Ask yourself this question-do you like the feeling of being needed and being the only one who has some sense of financial responsibility in the family? That's all very well, but you've done that now-time to move on and stop being a mug-people will continue to treat you as one as long as you let them.

SanityClause · 14/06/2013 22:34

Move out.

That way, if something is needed for her household, you cannot be thought to be responsible in any way. While you live there, it may seem reasonable that you should take responsibility for some of these things.

And then, if she asks, just say no. And if any other relation asks for a loan, just say no. If they tell you to get it out of savings, say it is tied up in a bond and you can't get it out for six months, or a year. They can get a bank loan or credit card, themselves, if they're desperate.

You have had no favours, and you have paid your way.

Now its your time!

foslady · 14/06/2013 22:34

Stop parenting your family. Move out, say you have no spare cash because of your living expenses and DO NOT GO BACK. You will never leave if you do.

Monty27 · 14/06/2013 22:38

That's terrible, all of it. Remove yourself from these users at once.

At first I could empathise, with the lack of money in the background and working hard myself for an education and stuff, but when it got to borrowing on their behalf you left me behind. Angry

Do you need a suitcase?

clarinot · 14/06/2013 23:12

Oh wow, thank you for all your replies and for getting through that mammoth post!

I don't want to make it sound worse than it is. I (usually) love my family and for the most part we get on well. I like living with my mum and it is quite convenient for me (in London, pretty close to work, I can save like I couldn't if I were renting, I get to help her out with the bills and mortgage). I don't really have that many friends, and none I can live with. Most live with partners or are travelling the world. The few available ones, I would be scared of them leaving me in the lurch to move in with a partner or travel the world, I've seen it happen so many times. I wouldn't want to share with a stranger, after some hideous experiences in the past. So all in all, it's a pretty ok place to live. It's nice to have company, and I get an ok deal. Plus my pets are here and I couldn't bear to leave them!

It's just the money thing rears it's head time and again and it irritates me hugely, and it triggers all these memories and I start seething. I don't have the guts to bring them up on it so it gets me down. I guess I was hoping for ideas on how I can change their behaviour and teach them responsibility but I can't do that, can I? The money isn't really the issue, it's the attitude towards it. I would happily pay double for my keep but I know it wouldn't stop my mum asking for handouts.

I guess part of it is that it really hurt my self esteem when I was younger, and that has continued to this day. And I feel like I can't argue back because they somehow turn it to make me feel like I am more privileged because I got an education and am the highest earner (my salary is by no means amazing, but it is enough for me to do most of the things I want to) and I bothered to save some money. And I hate being made to feel guilty about that.

Nettletea and catballou, hm my mum and brothers (I have two) probably don't have an opinion. We don't talk about the past. Ever. They would say I am privileged because I went to a better school (I was at a private school on a full bursary) and throw it all back in my face. Whenever I try to broach this kind of thing with anyone they make me feel like I am being greedy or ungrateful.

I think I am going to have a chat with my mum about what she needs from me. If she wants to put my rent up, do it and lets stick to it, but she can't spring unexpected things on me. And I will have to learn the word "no". :(

I was actually scared of some straight talking telling me I am getting a bit of a free ride paying less than market rate rent to my mum. Phew! I don't know. I just feel like I have some sort of obligation to pay for other people if I have the means to, but I seem to be the only one worrying about it or suffering the consequences of other people's fecklessness.

I love straight talking mumsnet. You wouldn't believe how much less of a wuss I am since I found these boards, and I don't even post that much. Now to confront my next challenge.

OP posts:
clarinot · 14/06/2013 23:16

I've been having counselling for my self esteem problems and I think this is making me see things like this in a whole new light. It's taking advantage of a family member's good nature, which is totally crap. I can't let it continue.

OP posts:
Triumphoveradversity · 14/06/2013 23:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

stargirl04 · 15/06/2013 00:29

Hi OP, I can see parallels with my attitude to money and background, which are similar to yours.

I work very long hours but I earn good money and naturally, some of my friends criticise me for this, saying that I work too much.

The same people, though, are the ones who are always skint and asking me for loans. One friend took months to pay back a substantial sum of money to me after promising me she would pay me back within two weeks when she was next paid - I will never lend money to her again.

I always have skint people leaning on me for cash. (Friends and family members). I don't see why I should work my butt off and exercise financial restraint only to fund their irresponsibility and poor financial management.

So these days I just say No and I don't feel guilty about it at all, because I know that they will only take advantage.

I tell them that my money is locked into a long-term savings plan and I can't get to it without incurring a financial penalty, which, naturally, they will have to repay on top of the loan. Grin

Seriously, I would move out of your mother's place. You will be so much happier.

Monty27 · 15/06/2013 02:15

Leave your mum to it, get out of there. You are not their keeper. I can't actually believe how awful they are.

Kindness from you is one thing, but being used by others is a different thing, even if you love them. I'm just going to do this now Angry instead of 'banging' on about them using you.

Fair play to you, you've made your life good, why can't they make theirs good?

Justfornowitwilldo · 15/06/2013 02:27

Ignoring all the obvious emotional issues, please sit down and work out your finances. How much do you earn after tax, what goes out each month and on what to the penny. Include all the financial 'help' you've given your mother/family over the last 18 months that hasn't been repayed.

Are you really benefitting financially from living there? Most younger professionals would rent a room in a shared flat. Are you really better off? How much would you spend on food/bills if it was just you?

Justfornowitwilldo · 15/06/2013 02:32

How much have you payed out to cover debts/bills she just ignored? How much would your deposit be now if you hadn't? It sounds like you're putting your life on hold.

AdoraBell · 15/06/2013 02:52

She won't change, neither will the others who seem to expect you to sort out their money problems. Do as suggested, really look properly at your finances and How much you've paíd out to help your mum. You really would be better off living independently.

Stepmooster · 15/06/2013 04:13

Hi OP OMG I am the same! My mother spoilt my sister rotten, I got hand-me-downs. Every penny I spend I earn myself.

I pay the mortgage on my dads home, so he doesn't rent. Granted we have equal shares in the property but its me working and he's retired early. 2 yrs ago I finally was able to afford my own place but after flatsharing for years. The irony of renting so my dad didn't have to! I'm working so my dad doesn't have to. I love my dad a lot but I wish I never went down the road I have.

I am so careful with money, I am so careful not to waste a thing. My DH thinks I'm scrooge! I've got a lot better, and he has picked up a lot of money saving tips from me. It winds him up about my dad, but he had to accept it because I can't stop what I started because my dad would be homeless and I love him.

So long as you keep bailing out your family the more they'll expect it. Its easier for me to say no now to offering to pay for other things, but only because I have kids now. Because they are my priority.

Best of luck! Xx