Money guilt

[clarinot]

Hi MN,

I saw a thread on AIBU with quite a similar situation. I started typing but then I thought it was too much for AIBU, and is clearly upsetting me more than I thought. I'm an occasional poster/regular lurker with a namechange. I have a bit of resentment bubbling inside of me so am looking for some wisdom. I've just read through my message and it's incredibly long and garbled, so I'm not expecting many people to read it! I will post it anyway. Cheap therapy.

I grew up in a very poor family and rarely had nice clothes, expensive things, holidays etc. My mum was a single parent (apart from a 6 year marriage to an absolute cunt, when things were no better financially), she has always been on a low wage, but pretty much always worked. I don't ever remember a time when we were comfortably off, there was always financial stress. She always found money (or debt) to buy my brother designer clothes or the latest computer console Even when I was still at primary school I could see she was spending a lot of money that she didn't have and wondered why the hell she did it, and worried about it. But I didn't ever get the same sort of treats. I remember once begging for a bag for school, I never got particularly fancy birthday presents... It sounds so petty now but it was really hurtful when I was little!

I remember one winter when I was doing my A levels and she and my stepdad went apeshit because I took 20 quid that I mistakenly thought they had left for me to buy some jumpers, I didn't have any and it was freezing. But the money wasn't for me, I didn't spend it as it happened as I couldn't find anything, so gave it back straight away, but the whole episode made me feel so guilty and ashamed and hate myself, and even now it makes me feel awful.

I desperately tried to find a job as soon as it was legal but had no luck at all. I took a year out before uni and my mum screamed at me several times for being at home and not getting a job, but it wasn't for lack of trying. My family sorted out jobs for my brothers by contacting people they know, or sorting them out with junior roles where they worked, but they didn't do this for me, even though I asked repeatedly.

When I was at uni I was really careful with money, it was my first time living away from home and I knew I didn't have a rich family to bail me out, so I was careful. Had a great time, but lived within a strict budget. One time, near the end of my second year, my mum called me up to say she hadn't been paid so she couldn't pay the mortgage. Having coped without one to that point, I ended up arranging a student overdraft of £1200 to bail her out - my elderly grandparents lived in the house too and I couldn't bear the thought of what might happen, so I felt it was my duty. However, my mum made no attempt to pursue the money her employer owed her, and once she got back on her feet she made no attempt to pay me back as she agreed. That summer I worked hundreds of hours in a kitchen to clear the overdraft and try to get in some sort of decent financial shape before my next year of study, I couldn't afford an outfit for my graduation so had to borrow old tatty clothes and shoes that didn't even fit me... she watched me do all this and didn't attempt to pay a penny back. I moved back home with a maxed out overdraft and started searching for a job. I found out mum spent a £100 on a piece of garden furniture which would be used maximum once per year. I blew my top and had a massive row with her and my brother, which ended up with them saying to me "You think you are so perfect"! Just because I am not shit with money.

So, although I try not to be materialistic as a grown up, these silly thing happening to me as a child and young adult made me feel both unloved and taken advantage of. It made me totally paranoid and desperate to save and be financially independent as an adult. I was a bit anal about it when I first graduated (cleared my £1800 ovedraft by Christmas on my £6 an hour wage eating nothing but cheese sandwiches), but I have relaxed a bit. I run a car, spend a fair bit on a hobby, buy clothes now and again and occasionally go on holiday. I feel like I got to where I am off my own back. I took myself off to uni when no one in my family had gone before, I worked in the shittiest admin roles once I graduated and cleared my overdrafts, then I gradually got slightly better jobs and ended up in my current one, which I really like and pays reasonably well. I am putting money in a pension, and try to save a good chunk of my salary every month.

So, I enjoy myself and have the occasional treat, but I live within my means. All my clothes are from New Look, all my makeup from Superdrug, my holidays are nothing extravagant and maximum once a year, I don't smoke or drink or go out lots, I get my hair cut less than once a year. I am still saving to buy a house and have about 10% of a deposit, so still have a long way to go. I am 30 and scared to even entertain the idea of having children because I don't think I can afford it and no way do I want a child of mine to go through financial strain like I did.

My family knows I have money put away, and is constantly asking for handouts.

A few years ago a relative asked me to lend her a grand (!), I said no, partly because I didn't have that cash apart from in my ISA, which I never touch on principle - once you start spending it you don't stop. So she said "Can't you just take it out of your savings?" I felt so on the spot that I got an overdraft (albeit interest free) to bail her out. Obviously she didn't pay me back in a month as promised, ended up paying in paltry instalments and cleared the debt five years later. And then yesterday she asked me for another fifty quid! I honestly don't know where her money goes, she has no car, no kids, no costs apart from a small mortgage, bills and food (not even transport), she earns a decent wage.... I honestly don't know where her money goes.

My mum also continues to be irresponsible. We live together. She got some building work done without having the money to pay it, so just didn't pay. My grandmother sadly passed away and my mum just didn't pay the funeral bill, not even a bit at a time. I ended up paying both these bills on interest free credit cards and paying them off gradually myself. She too asked me for fifty quid yesterday (I wonder if she was collaborating with the other relative!). I don't mind paying my way - we live together, I pay her some rent money, I do the food shopping a couple of times a month, I have done some decorating and paid for renovations, I'm the only driver so cover petrol, do the food shop run etc, occasionally pay some bills... I wondered if I should pay more but I know she is only paying interest only on the mortgage and won't pay any more if I gave her more, and I resent giving her money to fritter away on god knows what. Especially when growing up I had quite a shit time of it, I'm still not over it.

I could move out but she wouldn't want me to, partly because she doesn't want to lose my financial contribution (we get on well most of the time and don't mind living together!). I can't afford my own place and I'd rather help my mum out than rent.

Gah I don't even know what my question is. Or if I even have a question! I think it's just my head exploding on a Friday night when I am home alone because I feel guilty going out when I've had £500 of car bills this month so I can only save about £300, yet other people are out on the town seemingly subsidised by me. What a mug.

you need to move out. you are not the family breadwinner and it is not your role in life to provide and be an interet free loaner of money to anyone. Your family are taking the mickey.

You need to take responsibility for yourself and look on gum tree or something, and share with people your age, have some fun. Its YOUR life and YOUR money- meet other people and see how they live. It was an eye opener to me to find out about other peoples upbringings and how absolutely horrible mine was (normalized) and how to go about reprogramming myself!

Why would you allow her to up your rent and leave you short? if you split bills according to adults and usage I expect you would be paying less not more. Its not how it should be, tbh. Even if you get on, you need to get out and be independent.

Staying at home is supposed to be cheap, my DM didn't charge me rent as she knew I wanted my own place and was saving hard. I paid for food I ate, washing stuff. BUT I wanted to invite friends round and have a private life without parents about telling me what to do etc etc. I would never have left if I hadn't got rid of the feeling of responsibility- I noticed my siblings were quick enough to leave me to it!

If you have to start pretending you owe money etc, that's no way to live. possible, but miserable. best to leave and enjoy the fruits of your labours:)

At the moment you're co-dependent. She's using you for income. You're using her for cheap accommodation so you can save up. You feel obliged to shell out when put under so much pressure, need to get much better at saying 'no' and meaning it (takes practise) and that's difficult when you're under the same roof with someone and they know all your business. It would be much easier if you were properly independent and kept your money affairs far more private... even if it costs more to live that way.

I usually hate lying to avoid a difficult conversation, but I really don't think your mum w ill hear you if you tell her no more hand outs. So invent (or even really do) a high interest savings account with a 90 day lock-in which means you can't withdraw money, so can't give out loans.

I suspect your mum uses spending to compensate for other things. You went to private school so she compensated your brothers with things. She had a crap partner, and now spends things.

Your family shouldn't be making you feel crap about how well you've done, they should be cheering you on.

10% can be enough for a deposit on a house btw, so start thinking about moving out or you could be there for life. Don't end up age 40 and living at home with savings that do nothing. Money is a tool, use it.

Why do your family know how much you earn and all about your savings and ISA's?

Move out, and stop discussing your finances with people.

I'm another one who thinks you really need to move out and get away from these parasites. If you have ten per cent deposit saved you can well afford a house share, that's what most young people in London do ( I did). It will be far more fun than putting up with a bunch of scrounges. nd stop giving them your money FGS! They think you are a soft touch, and at the minute they are right.

Ha good question Dr Google. They know I have savings because I say "it's in savings" if they ask where my money goes. And partly because I was so excited about starting to earn after graduated that I was banging on about starting to save. They don't know how much. I think they assume rather than know, and their assumption is right. I don't lead an extravagant life so they must think I have quite a bit stashed away. I could always say I blew it on something frivolous, taking their lead. The don't know how much I earn but know it's a bit more than they do, just because of the type of job I have and where it is. I don't really discuss my finances with them but they know I'm sensible and just know that I have "spare" money all the time, because I like to save and like to have something for emergencies. Their overspending is not my emergency though, I guess I have to be firm with myself and use that as my mantra.

Part of the reason I am reluctant to move out and live with strangers is that I had a hideous experience in a student house share where I ended up paying over the odds, my house mate was constantly stealing food and toiletries, didn't pay the bills, was filthy, a massive twat...I was so stressed and miserable. I've had my fingers burnt already that way so when I moved back home it was a vast improvement and I was much happier. But maybe I have grown out of this arrangement.

Thank you all for your thoughts and advice :)

Move out!!! You might have had a bad flat share at uni, but you are in a bad house share now! Ask round at work, you might find someone looking for a house mate. (and you can just commit to 6 months, that's not a long time if it doesn't work out)

Getting away and saying "sorry, I'm skint too, can't help you" would be fine, you don't have to say what you've spent your money on, just that it's gone. "this and that, London is so expensive." is a perfectly reasonable answer.

Your 30 FFS.
Time for you to cut the apron strings and leave home. As long as you remain your family will continue to sponge off you and you will continue to let them.
Go on gumtree get a flat share or a bedsit, start living your own life free of these spongers.

I am amazed that after all the treatment throughout out your life you are still there with these spongers.
Time for you to feel free enjoy your life and spend a bit on yourself

Leave home! Seriously, you may end up better off financially, since you won't be paying out for your family.

I agree with those posters who say you need to develop firmer boundaries. Can you just say "No, I don't lend money to anyone now as it has caused too many problems in the past"? Just keep repeating that or variations of it. You don't need to explain any more than that. They will probably get angry and try to manipulate but you don't have to give in.
You aren't responsible for your Mum's mismanagement of her finances. You saying no to loans and maybe moving out might help her to realise what she is doing, but even if it doesn't she isn't responsible. Unless she has alzheimers or another illness that makes her incapable of being responsible for herself, then there is no need for you to feel responsible or bail her out.

I agree it might be better too if you could live somewhere else. Why don't you just start by "looking into it" privately. Don't tell your Mum or any other family - do a bit of research and see what is out there on Gumtree or whatever.

I'm glad you are having some counselling, Have you talked to your counsellor about this as they might be able to help you set appropriate boundaries.

Can only second what everyone else has said. You need to leave home and you need to establish boundaries with your family and say no to them.

Sharing with students is a lot different to sharing with 30 something professionals. Also there are lots of different types of accommodation out there - not just grubby flat shares with post it notes on the fridge . We rent our top floor room to a young professional. I also lodged with a family when I first arrived in London - it might be a good transition to doing a proper houseshare.

Also if you have a 10% house deposit, 90% mortgages are available.

Agree with others saying you owe your mother and extended family nothing, and you woukd be better off finding a house share, being independent and having some fun!

Good luck!

Ooops - sorry - just to clarify - I meant of course "but even if it doesn't, you aren't responsible"

adding a vote for leaving home & heading to your own life. You can then decide if / when to be generous with your family. I think the financially poor beginning is a red herring, its the emotionally tricky start, still in place, that has given you these feelings

Your money isn't spare though, is it? You are saving for a home. By lending it out everytime your family say they are short, you are giving them the impression that you are well-off and can afford to lose it that your money is spare and not spoken for.

I think you are cautious as well as generous, which isn't a bad thing, but I think you might be closer to affording a place of your own than you think, because you are trying to cover all your bases twice. Do sit down and work out how much more you need to save to get a mortgage and how long it will take to get to that point a. if you stay at home and save at the current rate less what your family will sponge off of you and b. if you move out and have higher outgoings but freedom from

Living with your mum isn't working anymore - is it? And if it suits her to have you home, then she has a conflict of interest about letting you save up enough to leave. If she needs help with the mortgage she can get a lodger. Its one thing to be kind and generous to her when you can afford it, but taking out loans for them shows you can't.

In future, only ever lend money to family and friends that you could cheerfully lose.

I suspect your poor upbringing combined with the way your siblings were favoured means that you have grown up thinking you don't deserve to have the money you have earned, don't deserve a home etc and should have to keep putting it off. Please discuss with your counsellor why this is - you have worked hard for it.

The phrase 'generous to a fault' seems to fit. Not all housemates are gits. See if you can find a young professional who seems sensible and clean who you could feel comfortable sharing with.

That's a very good post from spiritedwolf. Its not spare money... For the family piggy bank